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Posted: 7/27/2007 9:24:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2007 9:25:47 PM EDT by pseudosuit]
So somehow I got an OTIS patch stuck just at the neck of the chamber and bore. It slipped off the eyelet and got wedged there. I've tried everything and it will just not come free. I tried grabbing it from the chamber end to pull it out, soaking it will CLP to loosen it up, push it out from the muzzle end with a wooden dowel, nothing, and I mean nothing is making it budge. It's really stuck. Should I just take it to a smith or is there a trick to getting it out? I feel like in a .30 cal this wouldn't be a problem but damn if the .22 bore is small. What should I do?

I'm most afraid of damaging the bore. So far I've only tried wood to knock it out and I assume that isn't going to hurt anything, right? Any soft metals I can use?
Link Posted: 7/27/2007 11:31:10 PM EDT
OK, given your description it sounds like it's about 2" into the bore?

Could you take a small propane / butane, etc. torch insert in into the bore, light it to where you could burn enough of the patch away to get it loose enough around the edges to where it would go ahead and drive out? Seems like it wouldn't take too much to burn away to make it looser in the bore.

OTOH, I don't see how you could hurt the bore or chamber with a wooden dowel and get a little "meaner" with it via a mallet. Seems as if you had about 2" of dowel extending beyond the muzzle and smacked the hell out out the dowel it ought to come out. The reason I suggested only 2" of dowel beyond the muzzle, is the more dowel you have past the muzzle, it would seem the greater the greater chance of breaking the dowel AT, or near the muzzle.

Only WAG's. Never been there before with that problem.
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 1:17:53 AM EDT
Do you have a regular cleaning rod?

That, or a wooden dowel.

This board is filled with people paranoid and with a weird sense of how fragile their rifle is.

In 99% if cases, it's nonsense.
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 1:23:52 AM EDT
use a BFH and a dowel.

Like others have said, you won't hurt your rifle any 99 out of 100 times.
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 4:27:53 AM EDT
I have done this a bunch of times, and finally went to home depot and spent $3.00 on a brass rod, one piece, that I keep in the safe for just such occasions. Brass is softer than the chrome and the steel, and Ihave had no problems. In fact one time I spent an hour with the "obstruction remover" from the otis kit, and finally got it done with one swat of the brass rod, using the rod's weight only. I am hesitant to use the steel rod that came with my gun, but it does live in my cleaning kit at work for just such an eventuality.

pat
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 12:39:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2007 12:39:12 PM EDT by pseudosuit]
Well, tried the dowel and a hammer and broke the dowel off flush with the end of the muzzle. I even started with a small piece too so this wouldn't happen. I don't know what else to do now. I think I'm going to have to suck it up and take it to a smith.
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 12:41:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2007 12:42:15 PM EDT by twonami]
barrel in freezer for an hour and try the wooden dowel or brass rod again
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 2:04:16 PM EDT
Just tried the brass rod. It bent, and is now stuck probably inside a split piece of dowel about two inches into the muzzle. Time for a new barrel.
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 2:14:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:
Just tried the brass rod. It bent, and is now stuck probably inside a split piece of dowel about two inches into the muzzle. Time for a new barrel.




Go at it from the other direction.
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 2:25:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2007 2:26:06 PM EDT by -spooky-]
Be careful with fire, since it's soaked in CLP.
Tape a match to the end of a long stick, light it. Stick the burning match into the chamber and try to burn the patch. Do this outside so you don't burn your place down.
The long stick is so you still have eyebrows when this is over.
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 2:26:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:
Just tried the brass rod. It bent, and is now stuck probably inside a split piece of dowel about two inches into the muzzle. Time for a new barrel.


New barrel??? Please. Light the patch with a torch and let it burn for a second. Rinse and repeat until it's not a problem. You ain't near a new barrel yet.
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 2:28:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2007 2:29:36 PM EDT by xanadu]
Please someone, save this thread for prosperity!

Link Posted: 7/28/2007 2:43:02 PM EDT
The new barrel was an exaggeration, yes, just very frustrated. Going to try fire next, will report back.
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 5:23:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By alittledablldoya:
Another thing you could try is hydraulics.

Since the obstruction is at the chamber end, fill the barrel with a liquid to about 2" below the muzzle. Oil or water will work, water being somewhat safer if it leaks or squirts out. Then, take a dowel just slightly smaller than the bore and place it in the bore with the liquid. You may need to use a patch to seal the dowel to the bore. Once you get it in there, smack it with a hammer. The force will be transferred down through the liquid (since it cannot be compressed) and the other end should pop off.

This is a similar concept to removing a stuck pilot bearing from an automotive engines crankshaft...

Good luck!


Nice. You could also try compressed air but that won't be nearly as effective. You would probably have to wet the patch with oil to make it work.

The main thing is MAN-THE-FUCK-UP. You are a long way from a new barrel.
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 5:24:22 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By alittledablldoya:
Another thing you could try is hydraulics.

Since the obstruction is at the chamber end, fill the barrel with a liquid to about 2" below the muzzle. Oil or water will work, water being somewhat safer if it leaks or squirts out. Then, take a dowel just slightly smaller than the bore and place it in the bore with the liquid. You may need to use a patch to seal the dowel to the bore. Once you get it in there, smack it with a hammer. The force will be transferred down through the liquid (since it cannot be compressed) and the other end should pop off.

This is a similar concept to removing a stuck pilot bearing from an automotive engines crankshaft...

Good luck!I would try this but I have about six inches of brass rod sticking out of the muzzle that won't budge.
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 5:28:57 PM EDT
Christ--just stick a USGI rod in there and beat the fricken patch out. It ain't that hard--you're not going to hurt the weapon.

Link Posted: 7/28/2007 6:16:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2007 6:18:43 PM EDT by pseudosuit]
Just so you know I'm not pussy-footing around this -- I'm beating on the thing with a hammer and the rod is bending. Just tried the blow torch approach and can't seem to get the flame far enough into the chamber to burn the patch out, it just smolders.

Oh, and it's not just the patch stuck in there anymore. Starting from the chamber it's the patch, then two smaller sections of dowel that splintered apart, then a longer section of dowel, then the brass rod. All of this is stuck and won't budge.
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 6:35:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:
Just so you know I'm not pussy-footing around this -- I'm beating on the thing with a hammer and the rod is bending. Just tried the blow torch approach and can't seem to get the flame far enough into the chamber to burn the patch out, it just smolders.

Oh, and it's not just the patch stuck in there anymore. Starting from the chamber it's the patch, then two smaller sections of dowel that splintered apart, then a longer section of dowel, then the brass rod. All of this is stuck and won't budge.


WTF?

Can you post a picture of the muzzle end? And the chamber, if you can...

We'll get you out of this yet!
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 6:35:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:
Just so you know I'm not pussy-footing around this -- I'm beating on the thing with a hammer and the rod is bending. Just tried the blow torch approach and can't seem to get the flame far enough into the chamber to burn the patch out, it just smolders.

Oh, and it's not just the patch stuck in there anymore. Starting from the chamber it's the patch, then two smaller sections of dowel that splintered apart, then a longer section of dowel, then the brass rod. All of this is stuck and won't budge.


OK. Try to tear up the patch a piece at a time. Don't use anything harder than the barrel.
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 6:48:23 PM EDT
First, I would focus on getting the brass rod out. Then, after that is out, I would try to get the wood out.

How big is the "longer section of dowel"?

Even withthat crap in there, you may be able to use the hydraulic trick.

Oh, and how bout those photos?
Link Posted: 7/28/2007 6:53:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By alittledablldoya:
First, I would focus on getting the brass rod out. Then, after that is out, I would try to get the wood out.

How big is the "longer section of dowel"?

Even withthat crap in there, you may be able to use the hydraulic trick.

Oh, and how bout those photos?


You wanna got that route fine. You should be able to get the brass out by clamping the end of the rod in a vise.

It may be hard to get the wood out.
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 6:23:21 AM EDT
Take a rod of mild steel heat it cherry on the end and bring it to the patch from the rear and cook it out. Then work the other stuff out. If you need to you can burn the dowels a bit with the rod as well.

On a side, the universal patches are way to big despite the slot for a .22. I had one rip on me and it convinced me to only use the M16 patches.

You'll get it,
Mike
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 6:37:12 AM EDT
Stop before you really screw it up. Hammering things in barrels only makes it tighter.

How for from the end is it. If it is within a few inches. Use a garlock tool. It is made to remove gland packing from seals. They do make long ones but they are hard to get. Any good tool supply should be able to get you one.

Soak the shit out of it with oil first a penetrating oil.

Next time oil it before you force it down.

Like other things in life if it is lubed it is better.

Also get a real cleaning rod, like a dewy and throw that gimmick cleaning shit away.
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 6:47:46 AM EDT
Already got a dewey for cleaning the ar-15s after this incident. I still like the otis for my m1a, and it works fine for other larger caliber rifles.
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 7:03:01 AM EDT
Try a patch puller. They are made for black powder firearms. It looks like a corkscrew. The other end screws into a cleaning rod. You may have to modify it to fit the chamber.
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 7:17:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/29/2007 7:32:16 AM EDT by cornholio123]

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:
Already got a dewey for cleaning the ar-15s after this incident. I still like the otis for my m1a, and it works fine for other larger caliber rifles.


I have an Otis kit and I have cleaned my AR countless times. It's not the kit.

I did get a ball stuck in my BP rifle. The powder would not ignite. I used a bullet puller but I don't know if it would work on the patch. It's like a cork screw you tap into the ball. You could try it but I assume you would have already tried it if you had one.
Link Posted: 7/29/2007 8:24:45 AM EDT
hmm, since you stoppered up the muzzle end take a piece of coat hanger and cut a sharp hook right in the end. Stab the patch and keep tearing out pieces of it. Maybe you can remove enough patch to get things to move.

this is the second thread like this in a week.

Don't feel too bad, a lot of us have done it before. The last time I had this happen was double patching an m16 in the marine corps. The armorer scratched my chrome removing the gi rod. Still shot fine with it. took a couple turn in evolutions before he would remember that the dark spot was not fouling in my rifle and was of his own handiwork.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 5:33:42 AM EDT
A couple pieces of dowel that I think split apart or passed each other in the tube so they're overlapped and locked in there.

I had another idea last night that I didn't think about before: what if some of the wood got wedged in the gas port and is locking everything in? It seems like that's right where everything stopped when I was pushing it from the chamber end with the brass rod. It was moving pretty good and I thought it was all going to come out and then it just stopped and the rod bent.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 5:44:51 AM EDT
This sounds like quite the ordeal.....

suggestion: flammable liquid, fire, remove..... take the plastic stuff off first and do this outside...... clp or somthing like should work.

YMMV

Pilk
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 5:50:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:
A couple pieces of dowel that I think split apart or passed each other in the tube so they're overlapped and locked in there.

I had another idea last night that I didn't think about before: what if some of the wood got wedged in the gas port and is locking everything in? It seems like that's right where everything stopped when I was pushing it from the chamber end with the brass rod. It was moving pretty good and I thought it was all going to come out and then it just stopped and the rod bent.


That's possible, especially if it had already splintered / mushroomed from the rod.

When you get through this, stick to brass rods.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 6:06:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:
A couple pieces of dowel that I think split apart or passed each other in the tube so they're overlapped and locked in there.

I had another idea last night that I didn't think about before: what if some of the wood got wedged in the gas port and is locking everything in? It seems like that's right where everything stopped when I was pushing it from the chamber end with the brass rod. It was moving pretty good and I thought it was all going to come out and then it just stopped and the rod bent.


Well if it's stuck at the gas port you could remove the FSB and look in the gas port. The gas port is pretty small but I guess something could have gotten stuck there? Can you push things back the other way now?

I have to wonder how you put the patch on the Otis. Not that it matters now but I have seen people wedge it in and it gets stuck. You should use the holes in the patch to form a cone shape. RTFM.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 6:21:20 AM EDT
How about termites? J/K
Seriously, what about using a piece of 3/16" steel tubing. Take a small triangle file and cut teeth on the end like a handsaw. Wrap the outside of the tube with a couple wraps of electric tape so it doesn't contact the bore and go in from the muzzle. Turn the tube and cut the bunched up dowel away little by little. Every so often take the tube out and dump the sawdust out.
It will take a while, but it will work. I once used this method to remove a squib bullet from a friends .38 pistol.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 6:48:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2007 6:48:34 AM EDT by pseudosuit]

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:
A couple pieces of dowel that I think split apart or passed each other in the tube so they're overlapped and locked in there.

I had another idea last night that I didn't think about before: what if some of the wood got wedged in the gas port and is locking everything in? It seems like that's right where everything stopped when I was pushing it from the chamber end with the brass rod. It was moving pretty good and I thought it was all going to come out and then it just stopped and the rod bent.


That's possible, especially if it had already splintered / mushroomed from the rod.

When you get through this, stick to brass rods.


Tell me about it. If I had just used a brass rod originally on the patch it would have popped right out. I've had to cut this one up but I'm going back to home depot and getting another and setting it aside in case this ever happens again.

About the patch, I had it on the holder correctly. I guess I just didn't feed enough of the patch back through the eyelet and it slip out.

Going to take the front sight base off and see if I can free it up then tap it out with the brass rod.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 6:50:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sleepercaprice1:
How about termites? J/K
Seriously, what about using a piece of 3/16" steel tubing. Take a small triangle file and cut teeth on the end like a handsaw. Wrap the outside of the tube with a couple wraps of electric tape so it doesn't contact the bore and go in from the muzzle. Turn the tube and cut the bunched up dowel away little by little. Every so often take the tube out and dump the sawdust out.
It will take a while, but it will work. I once used this method to remove a squib bullet from a friends .38 pistol.


Yeah, I figure that a using a steel rod would get it out because it wouldn't bend like the brass but I'd be too afraid of damaging the bore with the harder steel.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 7:14:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:

Originally Posted By sleepercaprice1:
How about termites? J/K
Seriously, what about using a piece of 3/16" steel tubing. Take a small triangle file and cut teeth on the end like a handsaw. Wrap the outside of the tube with a couple wraps of electric tape so it doesn't contact the bore and go in from the muzzle. Turn the tube and cut the bunched up dowel away little by little. Every so often take the tube out and dump the sawdust out.
It will take a while, but it will work. I once used this method to remove a squib bullet from a friends .38 pistol.


Yeah, I figure that a using a steel rod would get it out because it wouldn't bend like the brass but I'd be too afraid of damaging the bore with the harder steel.


He does not suggest using a steel rod to hammer out the stuff. He is suggesting you make a special tool. Do not hammer a steel rod into your shit. It will almost certainly slide against the barrel and mess things up.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 10:17:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:

Originally Posted By sleepercaprice1:
How about termites? J/K
Seriously, what about using a piece of 3/16" steel tubing. Take a small triangle file and cut teeth on the end like a handsaw. Wrap the outside of the tube with a couple wraps of electric tape so it doesn't contact the bore and go in from the muzzle. Turn the tube and cut the bunched up dowel away little by little. Every so often take the tube out and dump the sawdust out.
It will take a while, but it will work. I once used this method to remove a squib bullet from a friends .38 pistol.


Yeah, I figure that a using a steel rod would get it out because it wouldn't bend like the brass but I'd be too afraid of damaging the bore with the harder steel.


Read what I wrote again. I'm basically telling you to make a hole saw and cut the dowel rod out.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 12:29:31 PM EDT
I got one stuck after I got an Otis kit as well. Do not use the multi patches as you found out they are too big. I use cheap .22 square patches and poke a hole in the center and then use the Otis technique. There is nothing wrong with using the flex rod or the kit, Otis just needs to state not to use the multi cal. patch in a small bore. Good luck.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 3:30:27 PM EDT
I had this happen a while ago. It was all while following thier "innovative" cleaning technique that I got a patch stuck in a really bad way. Somewhere along the way the patch unraveled. The patch was covered in solvent so I didn't want to leave it in there too long. I tried everything from poking it with a rod (making it worse) to trying to burn it out (fire is my solution to everything!) Anywho, I took it to the gun smith and had them blast it out with compressed air and it came out instantly. So silly but so simpleLesson learned: I still use the kit, I just don't use thier technique unless it's on small bores, and only with the tiny patches.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 4:41:11 PM EDT
Well I took the fsb off and can see the blockage through the gas port but can't do anything about it. I poked it a bit with a punch and tried using the brass rod again and nothing. I think it's time to take it to my smith and let him give it a go.
Link Posted: 7/30/2007 5:29:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:
Well I took the fsb off and can see the blockage through the gas port but can't do anything about it. I poked it a bit with a punch and tried using the brass rod again and nothing. I think it's time to take it to my smith and let him give it a go.


You should try the compressed air thing. It can't hurt.

If you don't have an air compressor and blow nozzle, go to a local auto shop with the barrel and ask them to do it. They will probably do it for free.

I know I would.

GL!
Link Posted: 7/31/2007 4:27:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By alittledablldoya:

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:
Well I took the fsb off and can see the blockage through the gas port but can't do anything about it. I poked it a bit with a punch and tried using the brass rod again and nothing. I think it's time to take it to my smith and let him give it a go.


You should try the compressed air thing. It can't hurt.

If you don't have an air compressor and blow nozzle, go to a local auto shop with the barrel and ask them to do it. They will probably do it for free.

I know I would.

GL!


Might do that. I know the guy that owns the shop down the road. He'd probably blast at it for me.
Link Posted: 7/31/2007 1:50:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:

Originally Posted By alittledablldoya:

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:
Well I took the fsb off and can see the blockage through the gas port but can't do anything about it. I poked it a bit with a punch and tried using the brass rod again and nothing. I think it's time to take it to my smith and let him give it a go.


You should try the compressed air thing. It can't hurt.

If you don't have an air compressor and blow nozzle, go to a local auto shop with the barrel and ask them to do it. They will probably do it for free.

I know I would.

GL!


Might do that. I know the guy that owns the shop down the road. He'd probably blast at it for me.


You gotta get a good seal. The problem is air will come out the GP when the obstruction passes the GP. You can't use the AC on the FH.

I did this once with compressed air in a BP rifle. It didn't work until I soaked the barrel in water. A BP muzzle loader is different since there are only 2 holes. (an AR has 3)

You know I have been thinking about this and I would try a BP bullet puller. That would have to work on wood and cloth. I don't know if they make one in .22 but they must since there are BP .22's.
Link Posted: 7/31/2007 3:13:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cornholio123:

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:

Originally Posted By alittledablldoya:

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:
Well I took the fsb off and can see the blockage through the gas port but can't do anything about it. I poked it a bit with a punch and tried using the brass rod again and nothing. I think it's time to take it to my smith and let him give it a go.


You should try the compressed air thing. It can't hurt.

If you don't have an air compressor and blow nozzle, go to a local auto shop with the barrel and ask them to do it. They will probably do it for free.

I know I would.

GL!


Might do that. I know the guy that owns the shop down the road. He'd probably blast at it for me.


You gotta get a good seal. The problem is air will come out the GP when the obstruction passes the GP. You can't use the AC on the FH.

I did this once with compressed air in a BP rifle. It didn't work until I soaked the barrel in water. A BP muzzle loader is different since there are only 2 holes. (an AR has 3)

You know I have been thinking about this and I would try a BP bullet puller. That would have to work on wood and cloth. I don't know if they make one in .22 but they must since there are BP .22's.


I'm not familiar with black powder anything and can't find what you're referring to. I was looking on midway and didn't see anything. Could you give me a link by chance?
Link Posted: 7/31/2007 3:47:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2007 3:57:41 PM EDT by Cerberous]
an example bullet puller

www.outdoorsuperstore.com/product.asp?prod=455991

it looks like an anchor screw for plant hangers. I suppose you could improvise one with a small wood screw and a threading die the same size as your steel cleaning rod. Never surrender!
Link Posted: 7/31/2007 4:25:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cerberous:
an example bullet puller

www.outdoorsuperstore.com/product.asp?prod=455991

it looks like an anchor screw for plant hangers. I suppose you could improvise one with a small wood screw and a threading die the same size as your steel cleaning rod. Never surrender!


Now that looks like it could do something. Do that make one in .22 caliber?
Link Posted: 7/31/2007 5:16:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:

Originally Posted By Cerberous:
an example bullet puller

www.outdoorsuperstore.com/product.asp?prod=455991

it looks like an anchor screw for plant hangers. I suppose you could improvise one with a small wood screw and a threading die the same size as your steel cleaning rod. Never surrender!


Now that looks like it could do something. Do that make one in .22 caliber?


I'll help you look, but I think that you might consider a hardware store instead. The brass collar could likely be removed from this one to make it fit. The brass is for .45cal, compared to the screw which is threaded 10/32" (much less than .22 cal.)
Link Posted: 7/31/2007 5:26:44 PM EDT
Check your local hardware store for these......

LINKY
Link Posted: 7/31/2007 6:17:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2007 6:18:17 PM EDT by Cerberous]
This is the closest I could find that might work. Notice the bullet puller on the Right. Worst case, grind the shoulder a little smaller.

Linky

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 8/1/2007 8:53:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cerberous:
This is the closest I could find that might work. Notice the bullet puller on the Right. Worst case, grind the shoulder a little smaller.

Linky

Hope this helps.


That's the one I have. It's for way too big a bore. Even if the puller would fit I don't think you could find a rod that it would thread on to that would fir in a .223.

Damn if you were in Houston I would just fix it and spend less time typing.
Link Posted: 8/2/2007 2:52:48 PM EDT
Have you got that thing out of there yet, I've been watching this thread for a week now!! this is good drama no, serious I hope everything turns out ok. the wood screw thing does sound like a goos Idea, but being .22 cal it's pretty small work.
Link Posted: 8/2/2007 8:21:34 PM EDT
not yet

I went blowtorch happy tonight and the stuff bubbling and flaming from the gas port. It seems like there's the patch on one side and the dowels on the other and trapped in between is a bunch of clp, hoppes and crud. I've inverted the barrel in a vise and have hoppes sitting in it up to the locking lugs. I think I'll let it sit for the weekend and see if it will soak it's way through, then maybe attack it with the blowtorch again and brass rod.

Do I have to worry about getting it too hot?
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