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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 5/3/2003 7:19:02 PM EDT
Does anyone know if these are or are not approved for post ban use? Also is the one with the suppressor collar post ban legal (im assuming not)
thanks for your help
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 10:07:47 PM EDT
i got a firm "no" on this from MSTN, but that was a couple months back. looking at brownell's there seem to be two OD measurements, one that is exactly the "grenade launcher" spec and one that, i think, is .936 which seems to be not illegal, but not BATF approved either as far as i know. good question, dunno the answer. i would think that the larger diameter one would be okay because it is essentailly similar to the AK brake that bushy sells, but... hey maybe someone should pose the technical question to BATF and wait 3 years for the response. argh.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 10:10:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 2minkey: i got a firm "no" on this from MSTN, but that was a couple months back. looking at brownell's there seem to be two OD measurements, one that is exactly the "grenade launcher" spec and one that, i think, is .936 which seems to be not illegal, but not BATF approved either as far as i know. good question, dunno the answer. i would think that the larger diameter one would be okay because it is essentailly similar to the AK brake that bushy sells, but... hey maybe someone should pose the technical question to BATF and wait 3 years for the response. argh.
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i think i remember wes saying it wasnt post ban legal but in another thread the dealer ARMYINF stated it was. He said he called the ATF and they said it was legal but some phonecall isnt going to hold up in court. I will take Wes opinion until i get some hard evidence as Wes defintly knows what he is talkin about
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 10:13:34 PM EDT
right. wes responded directly to my question with a "no" and he seems to know his stuff.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 12:38:28 AM EDT
Both types accept a suppressor I believe, so it would be a "no" hands down. I can't imagine why one couldn't just weld and pin on a collar of some sort to the threads though. The brake itself is a brake, not a flash suppressor. I thought it was the threads on the OPS brake that made it preban legal only.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 5:59:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By themao: Both types accept a suppressor I believe, so it would be a "no" hands down. I can't imagine why one couldn't just weld and pin on a collar of some sort to the threads though. The brake itself is a brake, not a flash suppressor. I thought it was the threads on the OPS brake that made it preban legal only.
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not all of them are threaded. I have a 2 port that is and one that isnt threaded and i do not think the 4 ports are threaded at all from looking at them in the brownells catalog
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 10:23:12 AM EDT
The 4-port's not designed to accept a supressor, only the two port which has the external threads at the base. I left a message with my POC at the ATF and will hopefully hear back from him this coming week. If I can get something in writing from him, I'll do that. I would just take the upper down to their office, but they reside on the other side of my state and don't really want to drive the 4 hours to go see him. The only problem with this is the regulations are all too susceptible to individual opinions and personal perceptions to ATF officers. What's common sense and acceptable to one agent in my part of the country can be a law breaker to some pin head in another part of the country. New local laws and restrictions don't help at all...I think the ATF officers would be just as happy as we would be if they just saw the ban go away without anything new to replace it.
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 8:38:19 PM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 3:20:01 AM EDT
Why not just send a sample into the ATF in Washington and get the answer in writing. Maybe even a video taken in low light, showing a standard birdcage, comparted with the brake. THen you would know for sure. I dont know about the tech branch, but the import branch happily answers my questions within about 8 weeks.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 2:18:38 PM EDT
In lieu of hearing back from the ATF, I went ahead and called OPS Inc and it's their understanding/opinion/etc. that the 4-Port Muzzle Break is Post Ban legal. The ATF hasn't confirmed this in writing, but it's not a flash supressor and cannot be made to launch grenades without modification. Modification being the addition of hardware or actual physical modification to the break itself. If I hear anything to the contrary from the ATF, I'll post it right away.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 2:33:02 PM EDT
Where can you find OPS 2 port breaks and how much are they?
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 2:58:12 PM EDT
I seem to remember a post from Wes @ MSTN that stated he would have a limited number of the two-port brakes available, but only sell them with his SPR upper! I have a four-port OPS INC brake (from Brownells) on my post ban SPR clone. I don't have a letter from the ATF, but I see no reason for it not to be legal, as long as it's properly installed to ATF guidelines. ATF's got bigger fish to fry since 9-11.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 3:03:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By McBoingBoing616: I seem to remember a post from Wes @ MSTN that stated he would have a limited number of the two-port brakes available, but only sell them with his SPR upper! I have a four-port OPS INC brake (from Brownells) on my post ban SPR clone. I don't have a letter from the ATF, but I see no reason for it not to be legal, as long as it's properly installed to ATF guidelines. ATF's got bigger fish to fry since 9-11.
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WEll one cant just take a piece of metal and permanently attach it to the barrel. It has to be classified as a legal post ban approved muzzle brake. Even though the factory says its a muzzle brake the ATF may find some fault with it, that is my main concern here with the extra non threaded 2 port I have sitting around.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 4:45:34 PM EDT
Have your barrel threaded to one of the other options Ops. Inc. makes their brakes for, instead of the standard 1/2-28TPI. Now its post ban legal because the threads are not compatible with any flashhider or suppressor. Here are the option at Brownells. [url=http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&pw=55963&ctc=j7u7hd9tnu00zk8a00y51&mi=10077&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2Faspx%2Fgeneral%2FError404.aspx%3F404%3Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%3A80%2Faspx%2FNS%2Fstore%2FProductDetail.aspx?p=7684]Ops. Inc. Muzzlebrake @ Brownells[/url]
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 10:01:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hoplite:
Originally Posted By McBoingBoing616: I seem to remember a post from Wes @ MSTN that stated he would have a limited number of the two-port brakes available, but only sell them with his SPR upper! I have a four-port OPS INC brake (from Brownells) on my post ban SPR clone. I don't have a letter from the ATF, but I see no reason for it not to be legal, as long as it's properly installed to ATF guidelines. ATF's got bigger fish to fry since 9-11.
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WEll one cant just take a piece of metal and permanently attach it to the barrel. It has to be classified as a legal post ban approved muzzle brake. Even though the factory says its a muzzle brake the ATF may find some fault with it, that is my main concern here with the extra non threaded 2 port I have sitting around.
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The two port that you have is a different matter. If memory serves, what you have is actually a modified Break (shaved 4-port) so I'm not sure what the ruling would be on that unit. I wouldn't think there would be a proble, but my opinion doesn't mean much. I'm afraid you'd have to contact the ATF directly. Good luck!
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 10:13:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2003 10:33:34 AM EDT by ArmyInf]
Originally Posted By 223Rem: Have your barrel threaded to one of the other options Ops. Inc. makes their brakes for, instead of the standard 1/2-28TPI. Now its post ban legal because the threads are not compatible with any flashhider or suppressor. Here are the option at Brownells. [url=http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&pw=55963&ctc=j7u7hdaufd00zk8a00y51&mi=10077&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2Faspx%2Fgeneral%2FError404.aspx%3F404%3Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%3A80%2Faspx%2FNS%2Fstore%2FProductDetail.aspx?p=7684]Ops. Inc. Muzzlebrake @ Brownells[/url]
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Not entirely true, the law simply states threaded barrel, it doesn't state that it must be compatible with existing flash supressors. If you have a threaded barrel, you can get into deep doo-doo. Now if you were to permanently attach the break, then it may pass. Now I mean permanent too, no using the old red loc-tite and calling it good, but that puppy would have to be, pinned, welded, etc. It would have to meet the same qualifications as the ATF calls for adding the Phantom FS or a muzzle break to a 14.5" to make the barrel a legal 16". If attached properly, the ATF considers the FS to be PART of the barrel since the only way you should be able to remove it is by cutting the barrel. Edited to stress the MAY pass stated above...you'd still have to check and verify legality.
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