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Posted: 6/15/2009 4:57:09 PM EST
I try to spend a decent amount of time practicing mag changes here at home, but I don't always feel like using dummy rounds and chasing them around the floor afterwards from ejecting them. So, a lot of times I don't use them and just let the bolt fly home on an empty chamber. Is there any risk of damage to the gun doing this?
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:00:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 5:01:37 PM EST by kcolg30]
I have never had any issue with my 8 AR's and I really do not worry about it. I normally slam home after I finish cleaning the rifle or doing a chamber check at the range.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:16:13 PM EST
Slam away... no problem.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:16:23 PM EST
I sort of treat it like a pistol and am timid to slam it home. Dunno if it does any lasting damage though.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:19:27 PM EST
slam away... if it hurt it I would have a bunch of broken rifles.


Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:28:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By kabob983:
I sort of treat it like a pistol and am timid to slam it home. Dunno if it does any lasting damage though.


I treat it like a pistol but that means I slam it home. Not "slamming it home" on many pistols can cause jams.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:36:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:37:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By kabob983:
I sort of treat it like a pistol and am timid to slam it home. Dunno if it does any lasting damage though.


I treat it like a pistol but that means I slam it home. Not "slamming it home" on many pistols can cause jams.

Same here...

I slam everything.... And do it often.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:45:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 6:09:47 PM EST by Winn]
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By kabob983:

I sort of treat it like a pistol and am timid to slam it home. Dunno if it does any lasting damage though.


I treat it like a pistol but that means I slam it home. Not "slamming it home" on many pistols can cause jams.


Same here...

I slam everything.... And do it often.


You both do realize that the OP is talking about an empty chamber AND, that letting the slide slam home on an empty chamber on a 1911 is considered by most to be a big no-no ... right ??

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 10:25:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By kabob983:
I sort of treat it like a pistol and am timid to slam it home. Dunno if it does any lasting damage though.


I treat it like a pistol but that means I slam it home. Not "slamming it home" on many pistols can cause jams.


Umm...yes? I slam it home when it's loaded, when it's not loaded I never do. Same with the AR for me...
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 10:45:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 10:45:47 PM EST by kwrangln]
Sorry, but if you think letting the slide or bolt go from slidelock or bolt hold open on an empty chamber is more violent as the natural action during live fire you are smoking some good stuff that probably aint exactly legal. Unless you can show me some empirical evidence that dropping the slide or bolt on an empty chamber is more detrimental that live fire, I'm going to continue to let it fly and not worry. No issues with my 1911 for thousands of rounds now, and no issues with my AR for a couple thousand, or any other gun for that matter.

Show me some technical data instead of whatever old wives tale you have to bring to the table.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 12:29:41 AM EST
Letting it 'slam home' on an empty chamber is part of the function check they did (do) in the Military.

No problems with my AR or my handguns.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 1:36:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:07:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 6:22:55 AM EST by Winn]
Originally Posted By kwrangln:

Sorry, but if you think letting the slide or bolt go from slidelock or bolt hold open on an empty chamber is more violent as the natural action during live fire you are smoking some good stuff that probably aint exactly legal. Unless you can show me some empirical evidence that dropping the slide or bolt on an empty chamber is more detrimental that live fire, I'm going to continue to let it fly and not worry. No issues with my 1911 for thousands of rounds now, and no issues with my AR for a couple thousand, or any other gun for that matter.

Show me some technical data instead of whatever old wives tale you have to bring to the table.


That you haven't had issues with your 1911 - yet - is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that virtually every top 1911 smith will tell you that it is better to avoid that practice ... and if you think that's an "old wives tale" then you need to spend more time learning and less time posting.

Beyond that - to the OP - as far as the AR is concerned it may or may not be a different deal ... but I also recall reading a thread here a while back (sorry, don't have the link) where someone was identifying the similarities between dropping the slide on a single action 1911, and releasing the bolt on an AR.

Long story short, based on what was discussed there (by some respected posters) I tend to prefer to minimize the occurrence on my AR.

Have I done it in the past - yes
Will it happen again in the future - yes
Will I worry about it when it does happen - no
Do I prefer to minimize it whenever possible - yes

And just because something happens in the military day after day ... OR, is a common practice among the often-times uneducated masses ... doesn't necessarily mean it's the best thing - especially when you have the option to do things differently.

Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:10:45 AM EST
I slam my 1911 all the time... It still functions.


Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:25:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By kabob983:

I sort of treat it like a pistol and am timid to slam it home. Dunno if it does any lasting damage though.


I treat it like a pistol but that means I slam it home. Not "slamming it home" on many pistols can cause jams.


Same here...

I slam everything.... And do it often.


You both do realize that the OP is talking about an empty chamber AND, that letting the slide slam home on an empty chamber on a 1911 is considered by most to be a big no-no ... right ??



FWIW I don't shoot a 1911 so I'm not sure about that claim, but again between all of my AR's, the handful I've built for buddies, and my handguns I've never had an issue nor have I heard of one. When's the last time you saw a thread a someone cracking their bolt face, snapping a lug off the bolt, damaging the barrel extension, cracking a carrier? Any threads of cracked slides on non 1911's that can be traced to "letting it slam home?"
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:32:33 AM EST
You are all fooling yourself if you think it won't cause unnecessary wear on your guns. Will it cause enough damage to make the rifle not function properly? I don't know.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:34:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By kwrangln:

Sorry, but if you think letting the slide or bolt go from slidelock or bolt hold open on an empty chamber is more violent as the natural action during live fire you are smoking some good stuff that probably aint exactly legal. Unless you can show me some empirical evidence that dropping the slide or bolt on an empty chamber is more detrimental that live fire, I'm going to continue to let it fly and not worry. No issues with my 1911 for thousands of rounds now, and no issues with my AR for a couple thousand, or any other gun for that matter.

Show me some technical data instead of whatever old wives tale you have to bring to the table.


That you haven't had issues with your 1911 - yet - is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that virtually every top 1911 smith will tell you that it is better to avoid that practice ... and if you think that's an "old wives tale" then you need to spend more time learning and less time posting.

Beyond that - to the OP - as far as the AR is concerned it may or may not be a different deal ... but I also recall reading a thread here a while back (sorry, don't have the link) where someone was identifying the similarities between dropping the slide on a single action 1911, and releasing the bolt on an AR.

Long story short, based on what was discussed there (by some respected posters) I tend to prefer to minimize the occurrence on my AR.

Have I done it in the past - yes
Will it happen again in the future - yes
Will I worry about it when it does happen - no
Do I prefer to minimize it whenever possible - yes

And just because something happens in the military day after day ... OR, is a common practice among the often-times uneducated masses ... doesn't necessarily mean it's the best thing - especially when you have the option to do things differently.



Agreed... Particularly when it comes to a 1911. Seriously, if you let your 1911 fly home on an empty chamber you are doing damage to your trigger/sear everytime. It is an incredibly bad practice, advised against by every major 1911 smith and instructor. There is plenty of empirical evidence for it damaging the sear and barrel/breach face. The slide losses energy to friction pulling the rd out of the magazine and over the feedramp. Additionally, the case acts as a buffer between the barrel and the breech face...

As for the AR... Who knows. But with a 1911... Bad BAD idea...
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:43:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By kabob983:

I sort of treat it like a pistol and am timid to slam it home. Dunno if it does any lasting damage though.


I treat it like a pistol but that means I slam it home. Not "slamming it home" on many pistols can cause jams.


Same here...

I slam everything.... And do it often.


You both do realize that the OP is talking about an empty chamber AND, that letting the slide slam home on an empty chamber on a 1911 is considered by most to be a big no-no ... right ??



FWIW I don't shoot a 1911 so I'm not sure about that claim, but again between all of my AR's, the handful I've built for buddies, and my handguns I've never had an issue nor have I heard of one. When's the last time you saw a thread a someone cracking their bolt face, snapping a lug off the bolt, damaging the barrel extension, cracking a carrier? Any threads of cracked slides on non 1911's that can be traced to "letting it slam home?"


You don't need to shoot a 1911 to know about "that claim" ...

And it's got nothing to do with "cracked slides".

You boys have fun ... "slamming it home".

Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:45:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 6:47:36 AM EST by bosshoff]
Uh, I slam the doors on my brand new Mercedes as hard as I fucking can too. They still close, what's the problem?
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:51:01 AM EST
I agree with some of the above posts. When an AR system is in operation the bolt moves at 240 in/sec on the M4 and 160 in/sec on the M16. Slamming it home cannot near these speeds, even on an empty chamber so slam away. I have heard of people concerned about this, but they are the same crowd that cleans their gas tubes. LMAO, sorry couldnt resist that one. I love poking fun at that crowd, with their big ass pipe cleaners.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 8:30:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 8:42:09 AM EST
After reading this thread I'm wondering...Are there an AR manufacturers that recommend against this? Or 1911 makers as well? Gunsmiths I might can understand but hearing this from an instructor just means he got the info from someone else. Wives tale or not.

And fwiw the assumption might be that although many do this most don't do it on a routine basis thus not worth mentioning so while it might be damaging in the long run, extremely long run, it might not happen often enough to have any real effects.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 9:06:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 9:07:30 AM EST by kabob983]
Originally Posted By klassik:
I agree with some of the above posts. When an AR system is in operation the bolt moves at 240 in/sec on the M4 and 160 in/sec on the M16. Slamming it home cannot near these speeds, even on an empty chamber so slam away. I have heard of people concerned about this, but they are the same crowd that cleans their gas tubes. LMAO, sorry couldnt resist that one. I love poking fun at that crowd, with their big ass pipe cleaners.


True, but when it's firing it's got a cartridge to absorb some of the shock. When you slam it home on an empty chamber that buffer is missing.

As I said I don't know if it does any lasting damage to the AR platform when you slam home an empty chamber but I choose to err on the side of caution.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 3:20:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 3:29:10 PM EST by Winn]
Originally Posted By QUIB:
Originally Posted By Winn:

And just because something happens in the military day after day ... OR, is a common practice among the often-times uneducated masses ... doesn't necessarily mean it's the best thing - especially when you have the option to do things differently.


Well, as much as the military loves to warn against things that could harm their equipment, I'm sure if letting the bolt "slam" home was bad, we would have heard of examples against it and the associated warnings as to why.


Well, you'd think so ... but then again, the military's need or priority for things like minimizing unnecessary wear, among other things, with their weapons is most likely somewhat different than that of the individual gun owner.

And as stated above, IMO just because the military hasn't said that it's bad or issued warnings against it, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is in fact the best possible practice either ...

Since I don't have to "present my weapon for inspection" (or whatever) - and manipulate the bolt in a specific, prescribed fashion - rather than let it slam, *I* prefer to close it on an empty chamber in a way that makes more sense ... whenever possible.

Link Posted: 6/16/2009 3:35:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By QUIB:
Originally Posted By Winn:

And just because something happens in the military day after day ... OR, is a common practice among the often-times uneducated masses ... doesn't necessarily mean it's the best thing - especially when you have the option to do things differently.


Well, as much as the military loves to warn against things that could harm their equipment, I'm sure if letting the bolt "slam" home was bad, we would have heard of examples against it and the associated warnings as to why.


Well, you'd think so ... but then again, the military's need or priority for things like minimizing unnecessary wear, among other things, with their weapons is most likely somewhat different than that of the individual gun owner.

And as stated above, IMO just because the military hasn't said that it's bad or issued warnings against it, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is in fact the best possible practice either ...

Since I don't have to "present my weapon for inspection" (or whatever) - and manipulate the bolt in a specific, prescribed fashion - rather than let it slam, *I* prefer to close it on an empty chamber in a way that makes more sense ... whenever possible.



If it was bad, evil practice we would be told not to. We don't slam the bolts forward on our belt-feds.

Much worry about nothing.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 3:36:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:28:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By QUIB:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Well, you'd think so ... but then again, the military's need or priority for things like minimizing unnecessary wear, among other things, with their weapons is most likely somewhat different than that of the individual gun owner.



You really think so?

Do I think that the military most likely has differents needs and establishes priorities differently than individual gun owners ? ... Yes.


I reference military TM’s and FM’s as much as I do, because of the fact that the military defines and gives more guidance than any civilian references I can think of.

Common sense dictates that there is a difference between good, better and best ...

To reiterate, IMO just because the military teaches people to do something in a cetain way, that doesn't necessarily mean that that way is automatically the absolute best way to do it.

Do you think that the way the military teaches people to do something is *always* THE best possible way that the thing can be done ?



Not to call you out…but have you served?

No, I've not served in the military ... do you think that I'd somehow consider that as being "called out" ?



Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:38:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 5:41:50 PM EST by QUIB]
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:20:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 6:34:00 PM EST by Winn]
Originally Posted By QUIB:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By QUIB:
Originally Posted By Winn:







<snip>


To sum up a quick response……

My background, for the most part, bases its foundation from Army Aviation. Military aviation has set the standard for civilian aviation and gets it’s roots from it as well. The same applies to military weapons and weapons maintenance.

You will find no equivalent civilian references to weapons maintenance and preventative maintenance than the military TMs and FMs. And any civilian reference you read, I bet will have it’s roots based from the TMs and FMs as well.

So yes, I put much trust and rely heavily on the advice given out in the military through technical references. If you were never in the military, then that might be hard to grasp or understand.


Not hard to understand at all ...

In fact, I don't think there's a person here who reads the tech forums with any measure of regularity that doesn't recognize your "link" to TMs and FMs and how heavily you weight them.

It's a good thing too, as the info that you're able to contribute based on your thorough knowledge of them represents a valuable asset to the community.

However, not everyone views them in the same regard as you ... but ... "that's what makes the world go 'round."

Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:28:00 PM EST
Uncle Sam has been "doing the slam" for over 40 years.

No issues with that.

Drive on.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 1:23:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:17:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 3:43:14 AM EST by Catman2]
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By kabob983:
I sort of treat it like a pistol and am timid to slam it home. Dunno if it does any lasting damage though.


I treat it like a pistol but that means I slam it home. Not "slamming it home" on many pistols can cause jams.


Without reading any further he meant on an empty chamber, not riding the slide down on a loaded pistol.
You misunderstood...

I was focused for years learning the 1911 resulting in me a comparitive noob on the AR platform
and therfore it's good to know slamming a bolt home on an empty chamber doesn't hurt anything,
in case I accidently do it.
Dropping the slide on an empty SA 1911 is bad and would knock out an expensive trigger job.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:59:40 AM EST
My personal preference is not let the slide or bolt slam home empty on any auto-loader. As for military manuals, you must take into consideration the fact that small arms are expendable and have never been designed to last for seventy-five years. All instructions relate more to readiness/function than they do to preservation. What may be acceptable in the short term for ultimate combat readiness may not be optimal for long-term serviceability. So, where the manual restricts the amount and type of lube used, I am not bound by those restrictions, so I lube my guns for preservation. Where the manual may allow the slide or bolt to be slammed when not loading, I don't allow it. If something breaks in the military, they fix it or discard it. I don't want to break anything in my Colt pistols and AR or other auto-loaders by performing an action that goes against the grain of my mechanical intuition.
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