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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/19/2005 3:52:44 PM EDT
I bought some ammo this past weekend form a gun show with these markings. Some are 96 and some are 97. I believe this is the manufacture year? The guy who was selling it says it is 80's South african surplus. I got it for $30 for 200 rounds in a WWII era ammo can with no gasket.
Does anybody know where this came from, it is a decent deal?

Thanks

JMN69
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 3:59:05 PM EDT
It's not SA, it is nasty Indian ammunition. Read about it here:

www.cetmerifles.com/forum/kb.php?mode=article&k=45&sid=2ffda1b738d27008a91722925f75830f
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:19:07 PM EDT
Oh crap, I'm glad I read this before shooting it. I spent $60 on this shit. Now I'm contemplating thowing it away. I was planning to shoot it out of my FN patrol bolt gun.
I should have paid more for the stuff in the sealed battle packs. That a-hole lied to me about this stuff being SA, since I'm new to .308 I didn't know any better.

JMN69
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:13:58 PM EDT
be very careful of the surplus ammo you buy and shoot. i have a friend that likes to shoot specialty ammo like tracers and incendiary ammo and while we were shooting this past weekend he had his very expensive M1A explode in his hands from a bad load. he was allright just a little shook up but the rifle is another story. it is best to check here before you buy any large ammount of ammo that has not been tested. i doubt this ammo will hurt your gun but is it really worth it if there a chance it might. sixty bucks is a better loss than a new rifle hinking.gif. when you do find the real thing SA is good surplus.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:27:39 PM EDT
I knew it was too good to be trueht
DAROGUE1
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:47:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 9:49:38 PM EDT by Dave_A]
Should be A-OK in a bolt-action, as most of the safety problems relate to problems unique to semi-autos (basically, Ka-booms happening because the bolt opens to early or doesn't completely close before/after firing... With a bolt action, so long as you don't fire into a squib you'll not have the other problems (because even if the case separates, the bolt stays closed & the chamber stays sealed untill you cycle the handle)...

Just be careful about squibs, et al...

Not good for a semi, esp a belt-fed or large-magazine weapon...
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:00:27 PM EDT
I've got some I've been shooting over time. It's slow going with this stuff in an autoloader. You need to inspect each round, many will have the bullet cocked a bit off center in the case. I reject those immediately. Ammo with cracked necks or case damage are also rejected.

With the ammo that looks decent I fire it slowly and insure that the bolt has completely closed before firing another shot. I wish I never got the crap.

In a bolt gun, I'd inspect it and shoot those that look okay. Toss the rest.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 3:24:47 AM EDT
You bought yours from the guy at the Valley Forge, PA show right? I think I saw you there on Saturday afternoon staring long and hard at the stuff like I did.

Do you have his phone number?
The A-hole had the cans taped shut with a label clearly stating that it was South African ORM-D stuff. I want to give him a call or visit his store and ask for a refund!

I am going to shoot it only from a bolt gun, but what about the rounds that seem slightly more pushed in than others? The crimp on the bullet being set in the case ever so slightly more. Could this also cause a KB or dangerous overpressure?

How would one go about disposing of 400 rounds of this stuff if I decide not to shoot it? Thanks.

JMN
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 3:56:43 AM EDT
yes the bullet being pushed too deep into the case can cause a pressure spike and a KB this is what i believe happend to my friend but not while shooting the Indian ammo. to get rid of it i would take it to the lacal range and put it in the containers they use to collect fired brass and dud's. the more people know about this ammo the harder it will become to sell so i would be on the look out for people trying to pass it off as something its not. if the guy wont give you a refund post his name and company name here and i bet he looses alot of sales at the upcomeing shows and not just on surplus ammo.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 4:31:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 4:33:32 AM EDT by Bushman_269]
Was is a red headed guy with a DA haircut? Sounds like Charlie (Red) from Collectors Arms in Hopewell Junction, NY. He pulled that scam on me at the Kingston, NY show last year. He did make good on it when I spoke to him after finding out the stuff was actually Indian. Hope it works out for you.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 7:53:09 PM EDT
yep, I think that that is who it is. I have his bussiness card so enlight of what what was said I think that I will call him tomorrow! Will post the outcome. How were you compensated? I am a bit @#!$@. I will even pay to ship this crap back. The can did have a sticker on it saying South African ect on it. I get tired of the damn scams all the time.

DAROGUE1
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 3:06:58 AM EDT
I live about a half hour from his shop, so I brought the ammo back to him and exchanged it for Aussie. I did pay the difference in price for the replacement ammo. He was very accomodating - much to my surprise, as other local people have posted dissatisfaction with his shop and business practices.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 3:15:20 AM EDT
Anyone consider telling him that you'll have him prosecuted for fraud and reckless endangerment? That'd get his attention, I bet. Selling known defective and dangerous ammunition...and lying about it's origin. Tantamount to attempted murder in my book.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 1:12:53 PM EDT
i am glad you got to exchange your ammo for the good stuff but you should not of had to pay a differance. you paid a set price for a spacific ammo and then when you find out he LIED he wants to charge you more to buy what he should of sold you to begin with. sounds like bate and switch to me. do not buy from this person again he has not earned you money or your respect. any one who scams people and only makes good when cought is still a dirt bag.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 2:35:52 PM EDT
If it's not in the sealed Battle Pack I would be suspect of any SA ammo. The guy absolutely knew he was BSing people. He was just counting on the fact most people would not find out. Little wonder I deal with the same 3 guys [with surplus] every time. They have never had to BS people to sell their ammo.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 12:56:46 AM EDT
Just another reason to beware of loose packed ammo. It may be something it's not, it may be stuff I reloaded into Aussie cases and sold as F4.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 2:37:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gorvibub:
i am glad you got to exchange your ammo for the good stuff but you should not of had to pay a differance. you paid a set price for a spacific ammo and then when you find out he LIED he wants to charge you more to buy what he should of sold you to begin with. sounds like bate and switch to me. do not buy from this person again he has not earned you money or your respect. any one who scams people and only makes good when cought is still a dirt bag.



I didn't have a problem paying the difference because the Indian was priced much cheaper that the going rate for Aussie (should have been the first clue,huh). All in all, I was satisfied with the result - I got ammo I can trust for a fair price.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 12:52:12 PM EDT
good enough. as long as you are haveing fun with your rifle and have safe ammo thats what realy counts.

Originally Posted By Bushman_269:

Originally Posted By gorvibub:
i am glad you got to exchange your ammo for the good stuff but you should not of had to pay a differance. you paid a set price for a spacific ammo and then when you find out he LIED he wants to charge you more to buy what he should of sold you to begin with. sounds like bate and switch to me. do not buy from this person again he has not earned you money or your respect. any one who scams people and only makes good when cought is still a dirt bag.



I didn't have a problem paying the difference because the Indian was priced much cheaper that the going rate for Aussie (should have been the first clue,huh). All in all, I was satisfied with the result - I got ammo I can trust for a fair price.

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