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Posted: 10/18/2004 11:00:28 AM EST
The first time i saw this i about shit.... I was minding my own buisness at my favorite shooting area and a phillipeno kid approches me and says "nice gun" :he's refering to my AR: i say yes you wanna try it? and i proceed to load 10 rds. in to a 30 round mag / i then go to hand it to him and notice he is not wearing any ear plugs... so i mention what your not gonna wear plugs... he says no and unloads 10 rounds.......

and again i went shooting at my favorite spot this weekend and seen it again..... another kid shooting with out ear plugs ..... an AR........

Do people regularly do this for any reason? i was thinking it could be practice for shooting indoors without plugs in case you needed to?

weird i think.... your thoughts.....?



Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:05:33 AM EST
Its ok if you don't want to be able to hear I guess.

I accidentally left my plugs out for 5 rounds this weekend.

My right ear still is jacked.

I'm usually religious about plugs.

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:12:32 AM EST
I felt a huge urge to reply to this topic. As a young boy of 5, I shot my first gun, a .22 Ruger Mark II Target Model. I never wore plugs or ear protection. Gradually getting older I obtain a 20 Guage and shot it as well with no plugs. The first ceneterfire gun I shot without plugs was a Luger hand me down from WWI. It was very loud compared to the .22's I was used to shooting. Finally after the purchase of a Beretta Vertec, I learned the importance of hearing protection. Now, exactly 10 years after I shot my first gun, I am both smarter and more mature. I ALWAYS wear EYE and EAR Protection! Always! I had the chance to shoot my Bushmaster M4 outside and forgot ear plugs and thought I could go back to the good old days for a day, but boy was I wrong. One shot out of the Y-Comp left my ears ringing for the rest of the day and with a slight ringing the rest of the next day.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:16:25 AM EST
The kid is well on his way to permanent hearing damage. He'll regret not using hearing protection one day. My right ear rings constantly, maily due to the fact that I didn't wear hearing protection when I first began shooting.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:17:07 AM EST
Y-Comp without hearing protection???



"Ears don't get tough, they get DEAF." -Bart Skelton
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:17:08 AM EST
I've seen some old timers do that too. One guy told me he only wears plugs for calibers bigger than .223. I guess since the .223 is a small round they feel it's quiet. Hate to tell them, I believe it's about 160 Db worth of noise. I left 1 plug out 1 time and a guy on the pistol line about 40 yards away popped off a few .45 ACPs before I could get it back in, that hurt. I don't want to think about what a .223 or a 30-06 sounds like when you're right behind it. MJD
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:24:38 AM EST
it used to drive me nuts that the former green beanie who instructed our rifle team in high school didn't wear them. he was deaf as hell, and it was only .22, but i saw a few future kias following his example.

kids are stupid. don't let him shoot your ar unless he puts plugs in.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:26:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 11:27:01 AM EST by CavVet]
I will guess you were all raised in the 70's and since. Way back when the wheel was square, America was free and safety was common sense and not a mandate, nobody used earplugs.

Other than shooting/hunting with my Dad, every time we went to the YMCA parents knew where to find us. They had a range in the basement, 10 cents for a box of 50 rounds, and an underpaid teenage overlord. I doubt if that musty range ever saw a set of earplugs as the building was torn down years ago.

I am not saying its smart, I am saying like seatbelts, life went on without them for years. I wear Peltors everytime I shoot anything now, because the ringing just isnt fun or cool anymore. But it didnt kill me or make me deaf.

These guys arent half as stupid as Kerry supporters or skateboarders on concrete imho.

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:26:10 AM EST
I've seen this before also. To me it is crazy. I am still "young" and my hearing is very important to me. Heck I even "double plug" when I am shooting IPSC (damn .38 supers).

The only time I have not had hearing protection is when hunting. Kinda hard to hear game with ear protection in. I have though about the "Game Ear"...I have just not moved in it yet...but in the long run could be worth every penny.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:40:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 11:40:47 AM EST by SpentShellz]
guess we are all just whimpy now......

it's kinda like the no metal slides in the park , and the padde play area our kids play on today,.... we are just getting whimpier.....

i think we need to toughen up the people .... but ill choose hearing protection over none for now when shooting a weapon.....

i wonder if any soldeirs in the 60's used hearing protection....?

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:40:45 AM EST
I use ear plugs and wear ear muffs. And my ears still ring constantly. Maybe it's because I shoot at indoor ranges?

I've always wondered whether law enforcement or military personnel that know they will be firing their weapon on duty wear ear plugs (e.g. SWAT officers, etc)...
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:43:15 AM EST
Thats scary! Sometimes I forget my eyeprotection......but NEVER my ears. I do now carry a box full of ear plugs and extra eye protection in my truck
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:56:26 AM EST
I guess none of you guys ever went to a Van Halen concert in the seventies/eighties? They ran some white noise thru the P A one night and it has made every gun shot since then seem like a
whisper , to this day I only use 1 earplug in my left ear but only when I shoot my AR, and yes without it I cry like a baby.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:59:12 AM EST
They are young, and don't know any better. Where were their parents?

I use the foam plugs and muffs.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 12:20:53 PM EST
Hearing protection isn't as important to some of the new shooters.
As Death said I also started out without plugs.
Now after alot of rounds, I find it mandatory.
Once the ears ring for two days, it starts to click that I might want to cover my ear drums if I'd like to be able to hear someone behind me........
Once and awhile I'll shoot with out my P6 muffs to know what I'm missing. Few and far between.

Mark
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 12:23:14 PM EST
black hawk down anyone?


AHHHHHHH!
don't shoot that thing again!

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 12:30:47 PM EST
Growing up, I used to shoot a lot of .22 (Bearcats with short barrels, pretty loud for a .22lr) and more often than not, I would disobey my dad and not bother with ear plugs. Now I have permanent hearing damage (I'm not deaf, but background noise kills my hearing, and my ability to hear high pitched sounds is seriously damaged, and I'm only 18). Now I'm much smarter about my hearing, and the only time I don't wear plugs is when I am hunting.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 12:32:00 PM EST
I use NRR ~30 earplugs PLUS NRR ~18 electronic earmuffs.

Just turn up the volume on the electronic ears to hear everything you want to hear, and the protection kicks in to block out the rest.

Hearing protection is far cheaper than hearing aids.



Link Posted: 10/18/2004 12:36:32 PM EST
I was fortunate in that the first time I went shooting was at Ben Avery on a saturday, in 1998, after ear protection was well established. Any Arizonians who've been there know what that's like...

Anyway, It's just become habit now.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 12:53:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By druncuncas:
it used to drive me nuts that the former green beanie who instructed our rifle team in high school didn't wear them. he was deaf as hell, and it was only .22, but i saw a few future kias following his example.

kids are stupid. don't let him shoot your ar unless he puts plugs in.


I always wear eye and ear protection religiously, even for 22LR. The report from a 22LR is plenty loud, but not as loud as a 223 etc. But the loudness of a 22LR is on the nieghborhood of 140-150dB because the impulse so short it doesn't sound too loud.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 12:54:07 PM EST
I was at an indoor range the other day. I was just finishing up, and wanted to have fun so i popped off 10 in a row, aimed, but very fast. A moment later the range officer thanked me since 2 younger guys had just walked in w/o plugs and they went running for cover once i opened fire.

He said people think they can handle pistol shots without hearing protection, but once a .223 goes off indoors they remember why they have muffs.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 12:58:06 PM EST
I have seen some younger people go shooting without earplugs, like it's being cool or being superior to other male sort of thing. I take hearing protection very seriously when it comes to shooting, you may not feel it now, but just give it a few years. The hearing sensory nerves is one of those things that you don't get back once you damaged it. Make sure you wear your hearing protection guys!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 1:03:57 PM EST
I just went to the ear doctor and had a hearing test. They found that I have 35% hearing loss in my right ear in the decibal range associated with gun fire.

I have only gone without my ear protection on two occassions- the first was in the indoor range I took it off and didn't pay any attention that someone was about to shoot. They got off one round before I realized I didn't have the muffs on.

The second occassion was when I was involved in a shootout. I fired 7 rounds from my Glock and the other guy fired 4 from his S&W 40.

I'm not sure when the damage occurred but it does bother me that I'm only 34 and I already have a substantial amount of hearing loss.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 1:12:17 PM EST
When I was 7 years old I begged my dad and uncle to let me shoot a gun. My uncle had a .357 Mag Smith and Wesson with a 4 in. barrel.

After 6 rounds with no hearing protection my ears were ringing so loud I could not hear them talking to me. It was 3 days before I could really hear people again. As a result I have about 10% permanent hearing loss.

But boy was I grinning from ear to ear after shooting that pistol. Yeah, everyone should always wear hearing protection when shooting.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 1:18:20 PM EST
i have lost a lil hearing in my left ear from 1 shot of a .45 outdoors. rifles arent bad outside i cant imagine being indoors tho
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 1:21:09 PM EST
Kids are probably already half deaf from their car stereos and walkmans.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 1:23:45 PM EST
EARPLUGS all the way

got 2 pairs inside my A2 grip; will never forget the gun, always forget the plugs
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 1:24:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Max-Q:
I just went to the ear doctor and had a hearing test. They found that I have 35% hearing loss in my right ear in the decibal range associated with gun fire.

I have only gone without my ear protection on two occassions- the first was in the indoor range I took it off and didn't pay any attention that someone was about to shoot. They got off one round before I realized I didn't have the muffs on.

The second occassion was when I was involved in a shootout. I fired 7 rounds from my Glock and the other guy fired 4 from his S&W 40.

I'm not sure when the damage occurred but it does bother me that I'm only 34 and I already have a substantial amount of hearing loss.




Keep in mind that everyday noise pollution can be quite loud. I know I cringe with pain everytime a semi passes me on the freeway and I have my window down.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 2:14:52 PM EST
huuhhh????
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 2:21:18 PM EST
Do our soldiers wear any type of ear protection on the battlefield? Just curious...
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 2:23:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 2:24:19 PM EST by easy610]
Forgot the plugs after the 1/4 mile run for sniper, I mean counter-sniper qual course and had to put up with my and another 14 guys getting their .308 cold bore off before I could get to my plugs! Only did that once! And I was shooting a 20" .308....can you say LOUD!?!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 2:40:08 PM EST
On a slightly different note, I've seen far too many people not use eye protection when shooting a rifle. Granted, getting a good cheek weld might be difficult if you have huge safety glasses on, but there are ones that have a good degree of wrap that in no way interfere with seeing through your scope. So why do people continue to do this?
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 2:46:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 2:47:53 PM EST by Bullitt3401]
I'm not deaf or half-deaf, but I have a slight ringing in my right ear. I only notice it when I lay down at night before I go to sleep.

I *think* it was from emptying a 13 round 9mm mag outdoors with no hearing protection...or it may have been work-related, also. I'm just not sure.

I was wondering if soldiers use anything these days too, I'm amazed how WW2, Korean, Vietnam, etc. vets can hear anything at all after going through what they did.

Scott
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 2:51:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By Gunner556:
Do our soldiers wear any type of ear protection on the battlefield? Just curious...



Some don't but I always did in Iraq. IED's are LOUD as hell. I sometimes don't wear hearing protection when shooting the M16or my M4. Too me it is not loud at all. When there are 5 or 6 other guys right next to you shooting on burst or rapid fire during a firefight though it is loud. I think a .45 is WAY more louder than a .223 BTW. I can not shoot a .45 without hearing protection because it is so bad but a .223 I can shoot all day long and not have any ringing in my ears. I also have VERY good hearing, just had a test the other day and had all 0's and 5's. one 10 and one 15 but I think the 15 was due to flying in a Blackhawk all day the day before without any hearing protection (real loud)
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 2:54:21 PM EST
When I was a kid (in the '70's) my dad took me to the range to zero our 30-06 rifles. We didn't wear ear protection and I can still remember how loud and painful it was. And to top it off, my dad is a doctor. Now I always wear ear protection around all loud noises.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 2:55:06 PM EST
Why all the plugs?

I find muffs much more comfy. Is there a big difference in actual protection?
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 2:55:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Niko:
When I was a kid (in the '70's) my dad took me to the range to zero our 30-06 rifles. We didn't wear ear protection and I can still remember how loud and painful it was. And to top it off, my dad is a doctor. Now I always wear ear protection around all loud noises.



I never wore ear protection to shoot until I joined the Marines.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 2:57:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By scrum:
Kids are probably already half deaf from their car stereos and walkmans.



What? What did you just say? I can't hear you?


Link Posted: 10/18/2004 3:35:03 PM EST
some people are just tough spelled s.t.u.p.i.d, or macho spelled d.u.m.b.

I believe that you I be tough and still be smart.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 3:30:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2004 3:31:45 PM EST by jff24gordn]
Shoot a Bushy pistol indoors in a small room w/o anything. I dont know if the noise or the bullet killed that bird.
But I have a pair of Leightning muffs and Knob Creek the other day was quiet with them on.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 3:38:24 PM EST
Does anyone know any good place to order Muffs from. I Had a set my dad bought me had the glasses attached to them. They where quite nice. The lens have been scratched from my AR sight. I wish they would design a pair that you could change the lens. I think they were made by Howard Leight or something like that.


Link Posted: 10/19/2004 5:27:40 PM EST
I never wore earplugs when I first started shooting as a kid. I was only shooting deer rifles and shotguns. But once I got my AR, it QUICKLY made a believer of earplugs out of me!!! Just like Visa, "I don't leave home without 'em."
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 5:56:24 PM EST
I grew up deer, duck and grouse huntinting without plugs, and now take one shot per year during deer season without plugs with my .300 WBY. My hearing is tested yearly for work and I have a "35" for hearing loss in one of my ears. Not good for being under 30. I always wear plugs at the range, and use plugs and muffs together when I am shooting the .300. Most of my hearing loss has come from my 8 year old. I can no longer hear in the frequencies produced by the words "Dad!", "Are we there yet?, and "What's for supper?" This is strange.

Wables
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:00:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Wables:
I grew up deer, duck and grouse huntinting without plugs, and now take one shot per year during deer season without plugs with my .300 WBY. My hearing is tested yearly for work and I have a "35" for hearing loss in one of my ears. Not good for being under 30. I always wear plugs at the range, and use plugs and muffs together when I am shooting the .300. Most of my hearing loss has come from my 8 year old. I can no longer hear in the frequencies produced by the words "Dad!", "Are we there yet?, and "What's for supper?" This is strange.

Wables



Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:07:29 PM EST
I don't think I'd let him shoot it w/out hearing PROTECTION.


That WILL do damage.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:41:46 PM EST
I hear quite well but have constant ringing in both ears. At 73 I guess it is to be expected. You learn to ignore it. Yes I wear the electronic muffs whenever I shoot. I have worn ear protection for 40 years but would not give up the electronic muffs for anything.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:49:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sixgun357:
Does anyone know any good place to order Muffs from. I Had a set my dad bought me had the glasses attached to them. They where quite nice. The lens have been scratched from my AR sight. I wish they would design a pair that you could change the lens. I think they were made by Howard Leight or something like that.





Wal-Mart works. Any Peltor ones will be more than enough but if you can, get the Peltor Shotguner (lower profile ones). Just as quiet but won't get in your way as much.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 7:10:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By SpentShellz:
guess we are all just whimpy now......

it's kinda like the no metal slides in the park , and the padde play area our kids play on today,.... we are just getting whimpier.....

i think we need to toughen up the people .... but ill choose hearing protection over none for now when shooting a weapon.....

i wonder if any soldeirs in the 60's used hearing protection....?




Well, we used to just throw our feces out into the street, and blamed witches or sin when we had raging epidemics of dysentery.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 7:36:08 PM EST
he Repetitive exposure to High Frequency Noise is not funny though - it guarantees future hearing loss. You can't condition your ears to withstand high frequency noise - it's effects are always cumulative and damaging. If you want to hear your kids or grandkids talking to you someday, put some freaking ear plugs or muffs on when you shoot and encourage others to do so...
I too see people at the range firing without hearing protection and have no qualms talking to them about it. Most are just ignorant about the topic, but it makes me wonder what else they are ignorant about regarding firearms safety. I even carry a spare set of muffs and plugs in my bag for others to use. A typical scenario I often see is a wife, girlfriend, or young kid watching someone shoot, standing close by, and suffering because the inconsiderate shooter didn't bring any protection for them. That's where a spare set can help someone out - pay it forward if you can...
A single shot or two while hunting is an event that your ears can recover from - the risk there is neglible. But multiple shots over a short period of time can be irreversible.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 8:20:39 PM EST
when i was ~18 and did a lot of shooting in the desert (for the peeps in phx, az it was east of 1-17 on carefree highway, the other side of the freeway than ben avery, where all of the houses are now :( ), my friends and i never used hearing protection. we shot 22lr, 7.62x39, 250savage, 30-30, 30-06, 9mm, 44mag, 12ga, 20ga and probably some other stuff. we would shoot a couple of times a week each time going through atleast 200 rounds per trip. we were young dumb and full of ***, as i got older i started to notice some hearing loss. i went to a couple audiologists and i was told that the hearing loss i am experiencing is not related to the shooting i did years ago because of what frequency my current hearing loss is. i very seldom have ringing. now when i go shooting, protection is a must. maybe i got lucky, don't know. maybe i need more opinions from audiologists...
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 1:59:27 AM EST
I was out shooting my AR50 at some tannerite and a local cop, off duty, pulls up to see what I'm doing. We stop shooting while he wanders up and he want to see me shoot close up. I offer ear plugs but he refuses. I tell him to look at the MB and ask again. He takes up a position about 1 o'clock from me, the worst spot for the 50 muzzle break. I make him back away until I think its safe, he gets a little pissed telling me he has shot more than I ever will and knows about the .50 BMG. He still won't take earplugs after a third offering. He says he shoots louder rifles all the time time w/o earplugs. Fine tuffguy. I shoot the tannerite and the blast from the 50 nearly knocks his skinny ass down, I ask if he's allright and replies meakly with a pale face YES. Then gets back in his truck and skedaddles. Why do some people have to always prove how tuff/stupid they are?- I gave him a free pair of plugs when he left.

BTW I will usually NOT shoot until everyone has eye/ear protection, but since he was being a jerk I decided to teach him a lesson.
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