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Posted: 7/15/2008 10:21:13 AM EDT
I'm torn between two weapon platforms....
I am considering the Noveske N4 Light Carbine (14.5) Basic and the N4 Light Reccee Basic 16.
With either weapon, I will be switching out the plastic handguards for the DD Omega rails (7" for carbine 9" for middie).
Typically I like the "look" of the shorter rail of a carbine, but it seems that the middie may offer some reliability benefits, more accuracy, and less recoil. I don't have personal experience in the matter, just bits and pieces from my reading here. I would love to hear some opinions either way on this matter. (Would really love some pics displaying a 7" railed carbine and 9" railed middies hopefully with an Eotech mounted).
thanks for any input
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:24:47 AM EDT
I have one carbine and two middys and I much prefer the middy. The only downside is that I can't get a Troy MRF-DI for it yet.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:39:20 AM EDT
Just the opposite for me. Had a middy and sold it. Once you throw rails on a middy it will feel front heavy and unbalanced IMHO.

I prefer the shorter carbines, they feel more balanced to me. I have never had a reliability issue with a carbine system (nor did I with my Middy), but I am a "snob" and don't mind spending a couple more $$$ on what I think is better quality kit.

Recoil is a non-issue with 5.56. Spend a day shooting full load 00 Buck and slugs and you will never notice it again.

Carbine length rail systems are also a little easier to find and less expensive than middy.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:51:44 AM EDT
carbine
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:53:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
I have one carbine and two middys and I much prefer the middy. The only downside is that I can't get a Troy MRF-DI for it yet.


Why do you prefer the middy?

I've been considering the 14.5...
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:59:18 AM EDT
If you're not going to weight it down, the middy 16" is a great unit.

I myself run 14.5" Carbines though, because I know that I'm going to hang a ton of crap off the handguard (VFG, Light, Laser at minimum)
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:47:36 AM EDT
What about accuracy? I'm no marksman but if I'm shooting with my buddy and he has a 16" will he likely out shoot me if I'm using a 14.5 (assuming skill etc. was equal)?
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:59:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 12:00:13 PM EDT by triburst1]

Originally Posted By GSPatton:

Originally Posted By triburst1:
I have one carbine and two middys and I much prefer the middy. The only downside is that I can't get a Troy MRF-DI for it yet.


Why do you prefer the middy?

I've been considering the 14.5...


More handgaurds, longer sight radius, and the longer gas system is better suited to the 14.5-16" barrels. Less pressure, less fouling, less wear, smoother operation and recoil. I have a 16" and a 14.5" middy.

The 16" carbine wasn't designed like that on purpose. It is simply the military length carbine (originally 10-11.5" barrel) gas system with the shortest non-NFA barrel allowed.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 12:12:05 PM EDT
The recoil difference between my LMT Carbine with H2 buffer and my RRA midlength is minimal. The longer sight radius is only going to matter to you if you plan running irons, which, in my case, I wasn't. The problem with the RRA is that it is very front heavy, and even with a rail on my LMT, it feels considerably more balanced.

And still to this day I have YET to see ANY tests that prove that midlengths last substantially longer then carbines. So until then, the midlength is just as viable an option as the carbine, and not superior.

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 12:16:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WhyNotDev8:
The recoil difference between my LMT Carbine with H2 buffer and my RRA midlength is minimal. The longer sight radius is only going to matter to you if you plan running irons, which, in my case, I wasn't. The problem with the RRA is that it is very front heavy, and even with a rail on my LMT, it feels considerably more balanced.

And still to this day I have YET to see ANY tests that prove that midlengths last substantially longer then carbines. So until then, the midlength is just as viable an option as the carbine, and not superior.



Your RRA must be an Hbar if it's that front heavy.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 2:49:56 PM EDT
As far as comfort and stability while shooting (placement of the forward supporting arm on the rail/handguard), is there any difference between a 7" rail on a 14.5 vs. a 9" rail on the middie? (Do you feel cramped with the 7" rail?)

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 5:05:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MarshMaster:
As far as comfort and stability while shooting (placement of the forward supporting arm on the rail/handguard), is there any difference between a 7" rail on a 14.5 vs. a 9" rail on the middie? (Do you feel cramped with the 7" rail?)



Not when standing, but the midlength handguard is much less cramped when shooting from kneeling or prone.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 5:46:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MarshMaster:
What about accuracy? I'm no marksman but if I'm shooting with my buddy and he has a 16" will he likely out shoot me if I'm using a 14.5 (assuming skill etc. was equal)?


Barrel length has little to do with accuracy, you'll be fine with the 14.5" barrel. You'll drop a few feet per second but that is it.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 5:50:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 5:55:46 PM EDT by N2CH_556]

Originally Posted By MarshMaster:
I'm torn between two weapon platforms....
I am considering the Noveske N4 Light Carbine (14.5) Basic and the N4 Light Reccee Basic 16....


Get both?

Seriously though, I know you're looking at the N4 series, but have you considered the Noveske Afghan? You get carbine length (14.5" + perm hider) with a mid-length gas system. There are plenty of ARFCOM industry partners/dealers here who can build my your dream upper with whichever rails you want. Just a thought.


ETA: of course, $$$ is an issue, as you'll almost be paying the same for an Afghan barrel as you would for an N4 upper.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:30:28 PM EDT
I went with the Recce because I did not want something with a perm FH. I have an Omega on mine now and love it! But like to have that option of going with say... a LaRue if I wanted to in the future. But if you're single and have a good paying job, get both! You won't be able to for long. I am buying as many AR's as I can. I have five right now (DPMS, Stag, RRA, CMMG, Noveske) and am working on the sixth (LMT more than likely).
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 3:25:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RobNC:
Just the opposite for me. Had a middy and sold it. Once you throw rails on a middy it will feel front heavy and unbalanced IMHO.
I prefer the shorter carbines, they feel more balanced to me. I have never had a reliability issue with a carbine system (nor did I with my Middy), but I am a "snob" and don't mind spending a couple more $$$ on what I think is better quality kit.

Recoil is a non-issue with 5.56. Spend a day shooting full load 00 Buck and slugs and you will never notice it again.

Carbine length rail systems are also a little easier to find and less expensive than middy.


I kinda feel the same way. My middy had a DD M4 9.0 rail, which was light as hell with nothing on it, but seemed front heavy with the surefire and VFG attatched. Now granted it was a medium contour (from CMMG which i hear is almost like a heavy barrel) so that might of made a diffrence too. I have the N4 basic carbine now and I LOVE it. Its very balanced, light, and I decided to keep the M4 handguards and just attatch a surefire and I couldnt be happier. Both were equally reliable and had very little diffrence if any in recoil IMO.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 7:19:08 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By socommatthews:
height=8
Originally Posted By RobNC:
Just the opposite for me. Had a middy and sold it. Once you throw rails on a middy it will feel front heavy and unbalanced IMHO.
I prefer the shorter carbines, they feel more balanced to me. I have never had a reliability issue with a carbine system (nor did I with my Middy), but I am a "snob" and don't mind spending a couple more $$$ on what I think is better quality kit.

Recoil is a non-issue with 5.56. Spend a day shooting full load 00 Buck and slugs and you will never notice it again.

Carbine length rail systems are also a little easier to find and less expensive than middy.


I kinda feel the same way. My middy had a DD M4 9.0 rail, which was light as hell with nothing on it, but seemed front heavy with the surefire and VFG attatched. Now granted it was a medium contour (from CMMG which i hear is almost like a heavy barrel) so that might of made a diffrence too. I have the N4 basic carbine now and I LOVE it. Its very balanced, light, and I decided to keep the M4 handguards and just attatch a surefire and I couldnt be happier. Both were equally reliable and had very little diffrence if any in recoil IMO.


Interesting. Pics, please?
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 5:04:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 5:06:50 AM EDT by socommatthews]
Heres my current config with the N4. The light is a G2 in a LT 606 mount. The rail I used is a 3" from an old YHM customizable handguard I had. Its really stout but really any bolt on rail would work.




and heres the CMMG middy with the M4 9.0 rail. Its the only pic I have left, it was an awsome rifle as well:

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 6:23:15 AM EDT
carbine
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 6:28:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By socommatthews:
Heres my current config with the N4. The light is a G2 in a LT 606 mount. The rail I used is a 3" from an old YHM customizable handguard I had. Its really stout but really any bolt on rail would work.

i88.photobucket.com/albums/k197/socommatthews/mikespics168.jpg
i88.photobucket.com/albums/k197/socommatthews/mikespics166.jpg

and heres the CMMG middy with the M4 9.0 rail. Its the only pic I have left, it was an awsome rifle as well:

i88.photobucket.com/albums/k197/socommatthews/upper1.jpg


How do you activate that light way up there?
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 7:56:31 AM EDT
For me I chose the N4 14.5"...

Recoil... not an issue for me with 5.56.
Accuracy... with the Noveske... the primary accuracy issue is the man behind the trigger not the barrel length.
Usability... felt the carbine balanced better and the HG is plenty comfortable with light, etc... and I won't be changing out HG's/FSB/muzzle attachment so 14.5 with fixed attachment fits my needs and I prefer a shorter barrel when possible.

Reality... you will be stoked with either one... just personal preference.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 6:30:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By socommatthews:
Heres my current config with the N4. The light is a G2 in a LT 606 mount. The rail I used is a 3" from an old YHM customizable handguard I had. Its really stout but really any bolt on rail would work.

i88.photobucket.com/albums/k197/socommatthews/mikespics168.jpg
i88.photobucket.com/albums/k197/socommatthews/mikespics166.jpg

and heres the CMMG middy with the M4 9.0 rail. Its the only pic I have left, it was an awsome rifle as well:

i88.photobucket.com/albums/k197/socommatthews/upper1.jpg


How do you activate that light way up there?


With my left hand thumb. its in the perfect position and I can easly(sp?) activate it, I just move my thumb about 1/2" to the left.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:16:07 AM EDT
On my 5th AR, and since I carry them in very rugged up and down conditions I am enjoying the shortest, lightest carbine available. Even thinking of changing out the mid lenth quadrail for a 7" LaRue. But it's all subjective. The older I get, the less weight I want to tolerate while climbing up the hills. It really depends on just what you will use it for, but I think the M4s were made to be a LIGHT carbine for close quarters combat. Handier and lighter; better.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:23:22 AM EDT
Why not just use the mid gas with a carbine handguard? Who cares if you can see a little gas tube.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:03:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By socommatthews:

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By socommatthews:
Heres my current config with the N4. The light is a G2 in a LT 606 mount. The rail I used is a 3" from an old YHM customizable handguard I had. Its really stout but really any bolt on rail would work.

i88.photobucket.com/albums/k197/socommatthews/mikespics168.jpg
i88.photobucket.com/albums/k197/socommatthews/mikespics166.jpg

and heres the CMMG middy with the M4 9.0 rail. Its the only pic I have left, it was an awsome rifle as well:

i88.photobucket.com/albums/k197/socommatthews/upper1.jpg


How do you activate that light way up there?


With my left hand thumb. its in the perfect position and I can easly(sp?) activate it, I just move my thumb about 1/2" to the left.


Monkey thumbs?
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 3:51:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 3:53:23 PM EDT by socommatthews]
Its not as high as it looks, and I can manipulate my hands in all kinds of ways (so my wife says)


Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By socommatthews:

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By socommatthews:
Heres my current config with the N4. The light is a G2 in a LT 606 mount. The rail I used is a 3" from an old YHM customizable handguard I had. Its really stout but really any bolt on rail would work.

i88.photobucket.com/albums/k197/socommatthews/mikespics168.jpg
i88.photobucket.com/albums/k197/socommatthews/mikespics166.jpg

and heres the CMMG middy with the M4 9.0 rail. Its the only pic I have left, it was an awsome rifle as well:

i88.photobucket.com/albums/k197/socommatthews/upper1.jpg


How do you activate that light way up there?


With my left hand thumb. its in the perfect position and I can easly(sp?) activate it, I just move my thumb about 1/2" to the left.


Monkey thumbs?
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