Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 11/16/2007 7:17:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2007 7:25:18 PM EDT by SHIVAN]
Anyone else see the article? The best 10 shot group at 100yds was 1.05". The average 10 shot group of all the commercial loads tested was 2.16".

Honestly, I'm a little shocked.

BH 168gr M - 3.2"
BH 175gr M - 2.44"
Corbon 125gr 2.15"
Corbon 168gr Match - 1.71"
Corbon 168gr DPX 2.96"
Corbon 175gr Match - 1.30"
FGMM 168gr - 1.05"
FGMM 175gr - 2.62"
Hornady 110gr TAP - 1.65"
Hornady 155gr TAP - 2.11"
Hornady 168gr TAP AMAX - 1.97"
Hornady 168gr Match - 2.54"
Lapua 155gr Match - 1.89"
Lapua 167gr Match - 2.15"
Remington 168gr Match - 2.32"
Winchester 168gr Match - 2.54"

Top five loads had a 10 shot aggregate average group size of 1.52".

Overall the review was favorable, and oddly it performed well at 200yds - 500yds. At 200-500 the average group size, or all rounds shot, was 2.723" using FGMM 168gr.

It was a curious result to say the least.
Link Posted: 11/16/2007 9:09:31 PM EDT
If they used the factory trigger, I'm suprised it shot that well.

B
Link Posted: 11/17/2007 8:34:37 AM EDT
I read that article the other night at work too, and I was a little surprised to see that as well. They did say it "was on a pretty windy range day". They seemed to over emphasize the fact that it performed flawlessly too. All I can say is I'm very happy with my LR-308 and it shoots a lot better than the one in that article.
Link Posted: 11/17/2007 12:55:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By imtheflash:
They did say it "was on a pretty windy range day".


Well they mentioned that in regard to the 200-500yd testing. They didn't seem to say anything about it in regards to the 100yd testing.

Also, if it was able to keep average group size of 2.7xx" @ 200-500yds...it should have had a much easier time holding 1/2" @ 100yds regardless of the wind.
Link Posted: 11/17/2007 7:06:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2007 7:09:56 PM EDT by Grunteled]
I just played with mine last week. The Black Hills Match mirrors my experience. HORRIBLE.... my FAL could outshoot that stuff. However with 155gr TAP (FPD) mine stacked 4 on top of each other and the fifth opened it up to 0.80" a second 5 round group ran right at 1". Those two groups were on the same POI if you lined them up and shifted out my scope adjustment between them. Winchester 168gr Ballistic Silver Tip produced (3) five shot groups of 1.3". Not average... each group measured 1.3" +- a few hundredths.

I would forget BH match completely. Mine hated it and that has been the case in three of my semi-auto .308 rifles. I don't know what the deal is but I'm not blowing any more cash on it at this point. Wolf Gold 150gr soft points grouped far better than both BH loads for me.
Link Posted: 11/17/2007 7:11:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2007 7:25:04 PM EDT by SHIVAN]
...
Link Posted: 11/17/2007 7:16:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2007 7:16:24 PM EDT by Grunteled]

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
Remove BH from those numbers and you get a 1.58" average.


BH 168gr M - 3.2"
BH 175gr M - 2.44"
Corbon 125gr 2.15"
Corbon 168gr Match - 1.71"
Corbon 168gr DPX 2.96"
Corbon 175gr Match - 1.30"
FGMM 168gr - 1.05"
FGMM 175gr - 2.62"
Hornady 110gr TAP - 1.65"
Hornady 155gr TAP - 2.11"
Hornady 168gr TAP AMAX - 1.97"
Hornady 168gr Match - 2.54"
Lapua 155gr Match - 1.89"
Lapua 167gr Match - 2.15"
Remington 168gr Match - 2.32"
Winchester 168gr Match - 2.54"


I removed my comment when I saw you had already done that..... I see they test quite a bit more than those listed in the OP. I should pick up the article. I'd like to read it.
Link Posted: 11/17/2007 7:27:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
I should pick up the article. I'd like to read it.


It was favorable, but I'm confused how. If I had tested a rifle that performed like that, I'd have had a hard time suppressing my shock.

I'm further confused because the people who I know who have them say they shoot lights out. As you indicate too....

It's a weird article....maybe edited to heavily...not sure.
Link Posted: 11/17/2007 7:40:31 PM EDT
you dont think perhaps its the idiot behind the rifle? I dont think I ever read a single article in those guns rags that ever actually bashes a product.
Link Posted: 11/17/2007 7:51:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drabchoi:
you dont think perhaps its the idiot behind the rifle?


I think he might be a SWAT sniper.
Link Posted: 11/18/2007 9:02:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brazos:
If they used the factory trigger, I'm suprised it shot that well.

B




IIRC the DPMS SASS has the JP adj trigger. My 308AP4 likes BH 168gr BTHP as well as any I've used.
Link Posted: 11/18/2007 7:27:30 PM EDT
I don't care how bad the wind was at 100 yards a .308 should have done alot better than that! The BH 168 shot pretty good for me but their 175 stuff just plain sucked! I 'm glad that I roll my own now...
Link Posted: 11/20/2007 7:35:53 PM EDT
I haven't had especially great results with my SASS, but I'm not very experienced with precision shooting so I'd chock up my results to primarily user error. I have done most of the shooting with the included harris bipod and imagine I could do better with sandbagging it. I haven't shot too much primium ammo in it, either. I don't reload so the $1.50 per round cost for TAP and such is prohibative of the volume of practice I need. I've be shooting mostly Georgia Arms stuff, but it doesn't group well at all.
Link Posted: 11/20/2007 7:38:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/21/2007 11:18:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2007 11:20:42 AM EDT by LJ973GM]
.780 out of my 18" bull DPMS .308 with only 20 rounds down the tube using rem match. on a 5 count.

I finished up using some core lokt and the 3 rounds groups were actually smaller than the match.

I do have a jp which I praise over the stock piece but I am pretty sure the one in the article comes with a aftermarket trigger as well.

Who shoots a 10 shot group? I am guessing that is the main reason it is such a large group.
Link Posted: 11/21/2007 11:21:27 AM EDT
I'm a little shocked that a Magazine that employs such a vocal critic of DPMS printed a pro DPMS article. Thats a good thing though. That they can look past their prior experainces and biases and give credit where credit is due.
Link Posted: 11/21/2007 12:32:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2007 12:43:43 PM EDT by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By LJ973GM:
Who shoots a 10 shot group? I am guessing that is the main reason it is such a large group.


A lot of people who do this sort of thing for a living.
Link Posted: 11/21/2007 3:56:31 PM EDT
were any velcoities listed for the loads?
Link Posted: 11/21/2007 4:09:35 PM EDT
what would a good 10-shot group be?

Link Posted: 11/21/2007 5:36:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2007 5:38:51 PM EDT by Grunteled]
My idea..... 1.25" or under for 7-10 shots. I consider anything under 1.5" to be pretty damn good. Getting consistent 1.25" groups from a semi is quite good and under that is outstanding.

I tend to shoot 7 shot groups myself. I can usually be counted on to F' up towards the end of a 10 shot string once. I tend to fatigue easily on the heavier calibers so it helps to shoot 7 each string and then do something else while the barrel cools.

I have found that I can get a REAL good idea of the rifle and it's actual capability by using a backing target and shooting multiple 5 shot groups as well. You paste one target that stays up in place between groups. Then you put up an identical target in front that is lined up with the rear target. You fire 3 five shot slow groups, changing the top target between each group. You might have three sub-MOA targets but the 15 round target shows that you can actually count on a 1.2" impact area from this rifle. Doing that disposed me of the notion that my FAL was shooting 1.5" groups. The backing target clearly showed it was a 2.5" shooter at best.
Link Posted: 11/21/2007 5:58:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drabchoi:
were any velcoities listed for the loads?


Yes. Pick up a copy. I think you can order it online even.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 6:26:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kc3:
what would a good 10-shot group be?



Read here then if it doesn't make sense take a stats class, then read again. It took me a couple of times but it makes sense.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 6:41:51 PM EDT
In every article I've read the 24" LR 308 has posted better groups than the SASS rifle. Mine has certainly blown me away with groups of .45" for 5 rds of 168gr Fed Gold Match and .50" for 155gr TAP, .68" 168gr TAP. My 10rd groups are all under 1" with these loads I do have the CMC trigger installed which made a huge differance. I have never been impressed with any of the manufactures' SASS accuracy. As a side bar over at tacticalforums they are saying the SASS deployed in the sand box is plagued with reliability issues.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 7:07:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cgdonley:
As a side bar over at tacticalforums they are saying the SASS deployed in the sand box is plagued with reliability issues.


The SR-25 derivative? Or did some group procure DPMS weapons for use in Afghanistan/Iraq?
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 7:37:43 PM EDT
Yes the Knights contract winning SASS platform I believe it is a SR-25 off shoot.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 8:22:40 PM EDT
I don't know what qualifies as a good group, but here is a 10 shot and a 5 shot group from my LR.308 at 100yds. These are two different handloads that somehow shot to the same center. both with 168grn Sierra BTHP's but different powder types. With commercial ammo I've had the best luck with Winchester Supreme Ballistic Silvertips, 168grn.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 4:01:03 AM EDT
Yes mine shoots like as well, LR 308 24" A3 upper, fluted, SS 109 scope, Burris tactical HD rings, Brownells 1/2" riser, PRS stock, tac latch, with CMC trigger. I don't see those kinds of groups being posted by the SASS rifles? How does yours like the 155gr, 168gr TAP ammo and 168gr Federal Gold Match? Does anyone know if the Winchester LubLox,(spelling) coating is really molly?
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 6:03:13 AM EDT
this (reports on SASS from swat) is similar to the groups i'm getting with my tac20 with 10xSS.
i'm not really all that great of a shooter, just getting into rifles, but i was on a bipod with a sandbag under the stock, so i was pretty steady. i'm also using the standard trigger, which breaks cleanly, but is like 6 pounds.
surely a better trigger and a bit more magnification would help.
lower weight bullets, and especially federal seem to be best and most consistant.

in reference to the winchester moly/lubrilux/whatever the crap... i don't know what it is, nor do i even care. i tried some of the xp3 supreme elite $35 a box stuff for hunting, and omfg. that was the most inaccurate ammo i've tried. out of 8-10 different brands i've tried so far i've maintained 100 yard 5 shot groups ranging from 3/4-3". then, i don't know if it's the coating or what, but i got about 8" between 2 shots, and the 3rd was off paper (8 1/2x11") with the winchester.

they shoot fine out of my dad's bolt gun, so i hate to just blame coatings like that. i don't think the tips are an issue, because the fed ballistic tips do great. it could just be a bad harmonic. who knows. i guess i could try a different coated bullet to try to figure out if that's the problem. i'm leary of moly coating anyway though. i read some contraversial stuff about it somewhere. i think i'll just swear off of the stuff.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:06:02 AM EDT
I asked about the coating because I don't want to put Molly down the barrel. I've heard that once it's there it's there forever? Some of the benchrest guys at the range told me you shoot either all Molly or all non-Molly but not to switch between the two??
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:15:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CptSpau1ding:
this (reports on SASS from swat) is similar to the groups i'm getting with my tac20 with 10xSS.
i'm not really all that great of a shooter, just getting into rifles, but i was on a bipod with a sandbag under the stock, so i was pretty steady. i'm also using the standard trigger, which breaks cleanly, but is like 6 pounds.
surely a better trigger and a bit more magnification would help.
lower weight bullets, and especially federal seem to be best and most consistant.

in reference to the winchester moly/lubrilux/whatever the crap... i don't know what it is, nor do i even care. i tried some of the xp3 supreme elite $35 a box stuff for hunting, and omfg. that was the most inaccurate ammo i've tried. out of 8-10 different brands i've tried so far i've maintained 100 yard 5 shot groups ranging from 3/4-3". then, i don't know if it's the coating or what, but i got about 8" between 2 shots, and the 3rd was off paper (8 1/2x11") with the winchester.

they shoot fine out of my dad's bolt gun, so i hate to just blame coatings like that. i don't think the tips are an issue, because the fed ballistic tips do great. it could just be a bad harmonic. who knows. i guess i could try a different coated bullet to try to figure out if that's the problem. i'm leary of moly coating anyway though. i read some contraversial stuff about it somewhere. i think i'll just swear off of the stuff.


Yes my CMC trigger upgrade made a HUGE differance! Shrunk mt groups from over moa to way sub moa. You'll see a big improvement and you'll be shooting better than ever. I kinda of suck as a marksman and my rifle shoots groups that surprise me all the time.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:46:26 AM EDT
I've shot new FGMM, Black Hills Moly, Regular Fedral Powershock(the only 150grn), and Winchester Supreme Ballistic Sivertips, all 168grn. My rifle liked the Winchester the best. You just have to try as many different loads as you can and see what your rifle likes.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 1:27:32 PM EDT
cgdonley- that's the kind of stuff i was seeing about the moly. also, thx for the encouragement on the trigger. i have plans to get a good one. i just dropped alot of cash already, so i was gonna try to make due with the factory one for a bit. it's smoothed/lightened up quite a bit after a few hundred rounds. still heavy though. the thing that gets me is - when i'm squeezing the trigger and the rifle fires, i feel like i'm on target, and the shot just felt good. then i see a hole appear an inch away. i know there are alot of factors envolved in marksmanship. it's probably a combination of a few. slowly but surely i plan try to eliminate the problems i can. i can't wait to see what a new trigger does.
Top Top