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Posted: 12/18/2004 8:11:17 AM EDT
but it sure makes firearms look purdy!

Just a couple of tips for those about to molyize their AR.

1 Moly resin is very thin and runs everywhere. I *thought* I had the cap on tight when I started to reshake the moly resin for the second lower... but I thought wrong.

2 The item MUST be heated. I experimented on a magazine to test hot and cold apps. When the magazine was room temperature fish eyes appeared everywhere. Make sure your item is at LEAST hair dyer warm.

3 Moly resin is a really thin coating when it is finally applied. It looks great too!

That is all.
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 8:16:23 AM EDT
I might have to give this stuff a try if my Alumahyde doesn't work out
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 8:40:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2004 8:41:10 AM EDT by NevadaARshooter]
The Norrells stuff is pretty good.  I am a hardcore believer in anodizing, but I was having trouble getting the color I wanted when dying a 6000 series AR10 lower so I gave it a coat of this stuff over anodizing and it looks good.  Perhaps it could be a bit darker.  
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 10:13:05 AM EDT
Moly resin is very thin and runs everywhere. I *thought* I had the cap on tight when I started to reshake the moly resin for the second lower... but I thought wrong.

Oops!  Also, if you shake the airbrush, make sure the bottle is tight, and put your finger over the orifice.

2 The item MUST be heated. I experimented on a magazine to test hot and cold apps. When the magazine was room temperature fish eyes appeared everywhere. Make sure your item is at LEAST hair dyer warm.

This is clearly spelled out in the instructions, and by Stickman in his excellent "How-to".  The preheating also makes it dry almost on contact, and it is difficult to make it run or drip.  If it does, it is YOUR fault, you suffer from extreme KLUTZINESS.  Seriously, it is easy to apply and get a nice, even finish.  No thinning required, it is the perfect consistency out of the bottle.

The closer you spray, the more glossy the finish.  I find 8" to be about perfect.  Spray no closer than 6", nor farther than 10".  

This is not really hard to do, even if you have never handled an airbrush.  Do not try to get 100% coverage with one coat.  What I do is put on a coat, reheat, do a second coat, reheat, do a third coat.  You do not need to let it dry before reheating.  

If you mess up, before doing the final 1 hr at 300*F (curing), you can remove the uncured moly resin with lacquer thinner, and start all over.  So, you can't mess up totally.  It is not permanent until you bake it for 1 hr at 300*F, curing it.  

3 Moly resin is a really thin coating when it is finally applied. It looks great too!

Yes, and tough, too!  Nevada, you'll find Norrell's as tough as the anodized finish.

Link Posted: 12/18/2004 10:40:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Knife_Sniper:
but it sure makes firearms look purdy!


2 The item MUST be heated. I experimented on a magazine to test hot and cold apps. When the magazine was room temperature fish eyes appeared everywhere. Make sure your item is at LEAST hair dyer warm.



Despite the directions I preheat to 300deg before coating. just snip and bend some coat hangers to size & shape to hang your parts. Then use a pair of vise grips to handle the hot hangers. Fish eyes can come from overlooked oils. Be sure and degrease very very well.  Condinsation from spraying in a cool or moist enviroment can also cause fish eyes The great thing about moly is if you are unhappy with your first go. You can always lightly sand any runs or fish eyes out after curing and recoat again.

Congrats on a fine protective finish.
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 10:41:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:

3 Moly resin is a really thin coating when it is finally applied. It looks great too!

Yes, and tough, too!  Nevada, you'll find Norrell's as tough as the anodized finish.




I have to disagree with you on this point.  Norrells moly coat looks great and it is durable, but nothing near as tough as anodizing.  My M16 was redone by Norrell....looks fantastic but scratches much easier than anodizing.  I would suggest moly coat applied over top the anodizing if you're wanting to change colors.

Josh
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 10:56:06 AM EDT


Originally Posted By JoshNC:

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:

3 Moly resin is a really thin coating when it is finally applied. It looks great too!

Yes, and tough, too!  Nevada, you'll find Norrell's as tough as the anodized finish.




I have to disagree with you on this point.  Norrells moly coat looks great and it is durable, but nothing near as tough as anodizing.  My M16 was redone by Norrell....looks fantastic but scratches much easier than anodizing.  I would suggest moly coat applied over top the anodizing if you're wanting to change colors.

Josh


Absolutly do not remove the anodizing. That would be a foolish thing to do, and a wast of time. The anodizing and parkerizing is the best bases to apply a moly finnish to. However I have found if the moly is applied and cured right. it is tougher than anodising.

 
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 11:17:34 AM EDT
Anodizing is the creation of Aluminum Oxide on the surface of aluminum...you know...aluminum oxide...the stuff they use in sandpaper. It is rated 9.0-9.5 in hardness, with a diamond = 10.0.

Norrell's is no way close to anodizing in hardness or wearability, otherwise why go thru the expense and time when you could just paint it with resin. I don't know where some of you guys get this stuff.
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 12:08:47 PM EDT
This thread is no good without pics


Bomber
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 12:37:33 PM EDT
Just sprayed some today and am learning both how to use Moly Resin and my airbrush.  I need to attend Airbrush 101.  I got some blems, likely from a poor degreasing job and some uneven coating, due to my dual action airbrush, which I haven't mastered yet, but you know the great thing about it, you clean up those areas and hit it again.  Easy.  This'll get done tomorrow.  I both love and hate the Holiday season - I gotta go finish my Christamas shopping, instead of finishing this.



Link Posted: 12/18/2004 12:45:25 PM EDT
Mongo,

Any issues coating the stock?

Spooky
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 12:50:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spooky130:
Mongo,

Any issues coating the stock?

Spooky



The stock actually coated better than the receivers, probably due to the fact that less greases and oils get applied to the stock.  I've got to recoat the receivers because I found little blems where I must have missed some oil.  The Moly Resin comes right off with a fingernail.  Tomorrow's work.
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 12:51:28 PM EDT
the stock looks very nice..
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 12:54:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2004 12:54:59 PM EDT by TheSaint2284]
Where did you buy the Moly Resin?
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 12:57:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheSaint2284:
Where did you buy the Moly Resin?



www.molyresin.com
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 4:12:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By neilfj:
Anodizing is the creation of Aluminum Oxide on the surface of aluminum...you know...aluminum oxide...the stuff they use in sandpaper. It is rated 9.0-9.5 in hardness, with a diamond = 10.0.

Norrell's is no way close to anodizing in hardness or wearability, otherwise why go thru the expense and time when you could just paint it with resin. I don't know where some of you guys get this stuff.



Absolutly do not remove the anodizing. That would be a foolish thing to do, and a wast of time. The anodizing and parkerizing is the best bases to apply a moly finnish to. However I have found if the moly is applied and cured right. it is tougher than anodising.

Well as I have stated, the "However I have found" part. Is from my personal experience. Now what I have done is apply it over the anodizing, and "I have found" the moly applied and cured right. Over the anodizing or park to be tougher than the anodizing or park alone. Hardness is not the measure of toughness.

When properly applied. It puts a slick, water proof & a more wear resistant finish over the "harder, porous non-water proof anodizing or park. Eliminating the need for oils on the "exterior" of the weapon.

I love the stuff.
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 6:42:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2004 6:44:06 PM EDT by neilfj]

Originally Posted By gsd2053:
When properly applied. It puts a slick, water proof & a more wear resistant finish over the "harder, porous non-water proof anodizing or park. Eliminating the need for oils on the "exterior" of the weapon.
I love the stuff.



So do I, and have been using it for years.

My objection isn't to your suggestion that it be applied over anodizing, but to statements like 'porous non-water proof anodizing'. Reading your post would give someone the impression that  the anodized surface is not waterproof, is porous and requires oiling to prevent corrosion, which are just plain wrong. Anodizing is 'water proof' (corrosion resistant...which is the main purpose for using it) and it is not porous once dyed and sealed. The only part of this that Norrell's excels at is the lubricity.

Norrell's doesn't eliminate the need to oil the exterior of the weapon since there is no need to oil the exterior to begin with. The only reason that it is oiled is for cosmetic appearances and the fact that the military has been doing this for so long that it is a habit rather than a requirement.  Unlike parkerized, phosphated or blued fiinishes, oil is not required as a corrosion preventative when anodizing is used.

Link Posted: 12/18/2004 6:57:21 PM EDT
What type of airbrush is everyone using?
My Flat OD and Flat Black Molyresin is on the way and
I need to make sure I'm prepared...
I have a Badger 150 dual internal w/ fine med and heavy needles/caps and
am contomplating buying an external mix in thoughts this may not suffice.
Any experiences w/ a dual action AB and any pics of the flat OD green?
I'm hoping it's like the Wilson Combar ArmorTuff green color...
sorry Knife_Sniper, don't mean to hijack your thread...

ar15_finatik
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 7:03:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ar15_finatik:
What type of airbrush is everyone using?



Mine is an ancient Sears dual action with dual needles and tips.  It sprays OK, but I'm sure there better out there.
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 9:03:04 PM EDT
I'v had the best luck with a $4.99 Sale price external mix brush from HarborFreight.Com . Item # 47791. It sprays well without spater. Thats the key No Spatter, Fine Spray.
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 10:15:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gsd2053:
I'v had the best luck with a $4.99 Sale price external mix brush from HarborFreight.Com . Item # 47791. It sprays well without spater. Thats the key No Spatter, Fine Spray.



ditto I have the same cheapo made in china HF...does the job...
Link Posted: 12/18/2004 11:07:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:
This thread is no good without pics


Bomber




Ok, but just for you, here is some green.....










Link Posted: 12/19/2004 3:53:42 AM EDT
Stick and mongo,


        Very nice!!!





Link Posted: 12/19/2004 4:38:17 AM EDT
ditto, very nice Stick and Mongo....
The OD Green looks just like the Wilson ArmorTuff (I think it is
molyresin that they use...specs are the same).
I can't wait now to do my 2 tone A2 upper.

Maybe I'll start by using the Med setup...what threw me off is
at molyresin.com they mentioned solids that are in suspension...

Has anyone ever done, or know of a site showing durability tests
between KG GunKote, Molyresin, and the Lauer DuraCoat?
I just received a FF HG that was refinished in DuraCoat and it's
amazing how tough it is.

Thanks, good stuff guys...
ar15_finatik
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 6:38:36 AM EDT
I'm curious about the preheating. Do you preheat the plastic parts like stocks and handguards? It seems like 300 degrees would be a little hot for them.
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 6:44:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JTC:
I'm curious about the preheating. Do you preheat the plastic parts like stocks and handguards? It seems like 300 degrees would be a little hot for them.



You only have to preheat to 100F, but the higher you preheat, the flatter the finish will be.  Curing has to be done at 300F and the buttstock held up just fine to that temp.
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 9:17:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mongo001:

Originally Posted By JTC:
I'm curious about the preheating. Do you preheat the plastic parts like stocks and handguards? It seems like 300 degrees would be a little hot for them.



You only have to preheat to 100F, but the higher you preheat, the flatter the finish will be.  Curing has to be done at 300F and the buttstock held up just fine to that temp.



Actualy you can get by with curing your plastic parts at 150deg for two hours, or even at 100 for three hours. Some plastics will take the heat better than others. To be safe I will do things like bakelite and other high temp plastics at 300deg. Usualy Hand gaurds and such. Other plastics I think will not fair the heat so well I bump the temp down and the time up as I see fit.
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 9:19:21 AM EDT
Stickman recommends curing the plastic parts at 250*F for 1 1/2 hrs.

I tried preheating to 300*F, and the Norrell's dried powdery on the surface, and would rub off.  It did not have time to flow and even out.  Too hot.

I preheated to 175*F, the lowest my oven would go.  Then by the time I carried the parts outside, they had cooled a little.  This worked well.
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 9:29:09 AM EDT
Ive only used Duracoat, which cures at a little lower temp, Might give some od Norells a try on some mags... Whatcha building Mong?
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 10:04:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Stickman recommends curing the plastic parts at 250*F for 1 1/2 hrs.

I tried preheating to 300*F, and the Norrell's dried powdery on the surface, and would rub off.  It did not have time to flow and even out.  Too hot.
I preheated to 175*F, the lowest my oven would go.  Then by the time I carried the parts outside, they had cooled a little.  This worked well.



Sorry. I never had a problem at 300 pre heat. Thats what I do all my metal at, and I have done 6 FAL's one AR one AK two hand guns and a trank rifle like this.

As you go you will find what works best for you. Let us know how it go's.
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 10:09:35 AM EDT
For future reference. What moly are you using? I have been using the Norrels saten moly.
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 1:02:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By underdog75:
Whatcha building Mong?



I'm putting this together, and I put together a trial fit build and photo op pic.  The lower receiver is giving me fits, as every time I try to install a pin, the moly resin chips off.  Must be doing something wrong, but I tried to follow the directions to the letter.  Any helpful hints would be welcome.

Link Posted: 12/20/2004 10:31:45 AM EDT
California ready?

Link Posted: 12/20/2004 11:22:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2004 11:28:54 AM EDT by lethalppl]
OK guys i cant find any where that has airbrushes in stock and cheap. where is sites for airbrushes? what u guys use for air because i cant find any where who cares air? i dont have compresser
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 11:29:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2004 11:34:02 AM EDT by BB]

Originally Posted By lethalppl:
OK guys i cant find any where that has airbrushes in stock and cheap. where is sites for airbrushes? what u guys use for air because i cant find any where who cares air? i dont have compresser



airbrush
touch-up sprayer
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 11:46:25 AM EDT
On the preheat, I have no way to insure each and every one of my parts are at exactly 100 degrees while coating.  When I first started out would try and heat the parts up with a hair dryer, or paint on hot summer days in a attempt to be sure the part was 100 degrees.  I now just skip the preheat step, and spray at room temperature.  I keep a consistent humidity and temperature in the shop, and therefore a consistent finish.

If you are getting fish eyes while spraying, something is contaminated, and contaminated bad.  The finish even after curing will not have good adhesion.  If you find your part is contaminated after you start spraying you should stop there, and start over at step one.

I do add a step to the process on selected parts.  If the part is something like a AR lower, or a FAL lower, or a AK receiver with riveted in trunions I will degrease, bake, degrease, bake, degrease, bake until said parts stops "bleeding".  Those FAL lowers are about the worse, real bleeders.
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 1:30:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Knife_Sniper:
California ready?




The muzzle will be threaded for the final assembly and I can't remember the last time I missed having a bayonet lug, so it won't have or need one.
Link Posted: 1/3/2005 3:16:33 AM EDT
it is great stuff to refinish an older firearm for sure.  i just completed another project with it via stickmans instructions.  one of these days, i'll get smart and take a before and after picture so i can keep up with the difference it has made.   this was an old beat-up mkII suppressed pistol that looked pretty much like crap before getting the "treatment".  the plastic grips on the ruger pistols will not withstand that much heat, in fact, mine started to give around 150-175 or so degrees, so they did not get totally cured out i'm assuming.  the rest of the pistol came out great.  i've done two older 22 rifles, as well as my M4.  no matter how bad an item looks, it can be revived with a little TLC and some moly-coating...hopefully these pics come out ok...have another older Mk II i'm going to do this evening.....



Link Posted: 1/3/2005 5:04:00 PM EDT
watch out !  that stuff can get addictive....

without much notice at all, my 10/22 just went SOCOM black on me....





Link Posted: 1/3/2005 5:11:09 PM EDT
and now my 77/22 just went colt gray on me....

Link Posted: 1/3/2005 5:15:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2005 5:22:57 PM EDT
...and it just keeps on keepin' on....

My Mk II that went SOCOM on me the other day got it's little brohter to do the same on me.....

just came out of the oven....



Link Posted: 1/3/2005 5:37:09 PM EDT
i gotta get a bigger oven....

put some cedar wood siding pieces in with the last batch getting the moly treatment, and it gave the guns that clean fresh cedar wood smell.....well, not really, but it did keep the smell of the cure out down to a minimum....

Link Posted: 1/3/2005 5:54:52 PM EDT
Burnsome,

Those are without a doubt the best looking Rugers I have seen!  Did you strip the bluing, blast, use harsh language or what? I can't believe how good they look, and I work with Norrells quite a bit.  

Simply fantastic, I can't say it enough.
Link Posted: 1/3/2005 6:05:14 PM EDT
Wow, excellent work....
I like the gold accent on the stampings...very crisp look.
Burnsome, If you don't mind sharing, how'd you accomplish that feat?
ar15_finatik
Link Posted: 1/3/2005 8:40:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2005 9:04:43 PM EDT by A_Free_Man]
These are the kits WITH propellant:

Testors Airbrush kit  www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHH87&P=7

or

Badger 250 kit  www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LX8168&P=7

This is the one I have used for my projects with Norrell's Moly Resin.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 3:02:02 AM EDT
Stickman ~~~

thanks sir....no complete stripping on those rugers, no cussing required (but i did drop one gun on an the concrete after taking out of the oven, and there was some cussing then....for sure....)....basically followed your written and posted instructions.  like you mentioned, preparation is a lot of the key of getting them ready for the moly.  i soak the guns in paint thinner and then spray everything down with a good degreaser.  i found some degreaser at a local hardware store with trico as one of its ingredients, so it really strips all oils (and everything else except the paint) off the gun.  use gloves and do outside of course.  pre-heat all items to 150F or so, and then its spraying "technique" as you also outlined in your instructions.  gotta take your time as it is definately worth it.  i usually do the gun parts themselves separately, like the barrel, receiver, etc.  after the first cure-out, i reassemble and do any touch-up on the complete gun, and do another cure-out on those areas.  my oven is pretty small as you can see in the above picture, so placement of items in there is kind of tricky.  i use my guns quite a bit, so they have been worn over the years and norell's has really helped renew them again.  for the $ investment, it is definately worth it in my opinion...my dad has a well-worn M16 transferred around the 1986 timeframe and it is getting worn quite a bit.  that is my next project and i'll try to remember to take before and after pictures this time and post them...

ar15_finatik ~~~

thanks sir....the gold accent is quite easy.  actually any color can be used....i guess i think of it this way ~~~ the moly doenst have the be oiled ever again like regular blued metals, so i simply use testors model paint enamel.  i clean the area with an alcohol pad and dry, then apply the gold model paint over the areas that are engraved.  after drying for a couple of hours, i take a rag and apply a small amount of wd-40 and gently wipe off the excess paint off the surface, leaving the paint down in the engraved areas of metal.  there is some "technique" involved here by varying the amount of wd-40 and elbow grease.  if ya screw it up, its easy to completely remove the remaining paint and start over until you get it right.  wont last forever, but will last a heck of a long time since the surrounding areas dont need to be oiled again....it really accents the engraving or stampings on a gun and gives a fairly decent appearance.  once again, a small bottle of model paint will last for years.....





Link Posted: 1/4/2005 3:29:24 AM EDT
What can I say?  Nice, Burnsome-, very nice.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 7:09:18 AM EDT
for the curing did you use a conventional oven or something else?  I would like to do some rifles other than AR but dont want to take the barrel of the receiver to make it fit in the ovenhinking.gif
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 8:25:38 AM EDT
I tear down my rifles to the individual peices I want to paint. So.... I used a conventional oven.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 2:19:32 PM EDT
BBowen ~~~

I used a "dedicated" small oven i bought at walmart, which is now my shop oven.  for larger items as you mentioned, a conventional oven could be used.  i'd let the moly sit overnight to gas out a bit if you are concerned about smelling up the house.  i've done one larger upper assembly in my kitchen oven when the rest of the family was out for a good portion of the day.  by the time they got back, nobody mentioned anything smelling bad, so i guess it aired out sufficiently so nobody noticed.  during the heating though, i was definately noticeable.  i opened the windows and let things air out during and after for about an hour.  interestingly, when using the shop oven outdoors, i hardly ever notice any smell at all...
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