Non-chromed lined barrels on AR's

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Non-chromed lined barrels on AR's (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 7/24/2005 11:41:13 AM EDT

Okay, I'm trying to build a 16" RECCE-type rifle, but just can't seem to settle on a barrel. The NOVESEKE (sp?) seems to be a great barrel, but I don't know how I feel about a non-chromed lined barrel; however, if one wants exceptional accuracy it appears that a SS barrel is the only way to go.

My question is this: How worried does one have to be about maintenance on some of these high quality SS barrles?

One last question: What chrome lined barrel, currently on the market, will yield match-type performance?

Posted: 7/24/2005 5:39:55 PM EDT

[#1]

as long as you properly mantain the ss barrel then you wont have any problems.

as for chromelined i would look into denny's new "operator" bbl.

Posted: 7/24/2005 6:25:18 PM EDT

[#2]

I have M1 Garands with 60yr old barrels. They arent chrome lined and they still work just fine. I'm sure an AR barrel will last just as long.

Posted: 7/24/2005 6:31:16 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Okay, I'm trying to build a 16" RECCE-type rifle, but just can't seem to settle on a barrel. The NOVESEKE (sp?) seems to be a great barrel, but I don't know how I feel about a non-chromed lined barrel; however, if one wants exceptional accuracy it appears that a SS barrel is the only way to go.

My question is this: How worried does one have to be about maintenance on some of these high quality SS barrles?

One last question: What chrome lined barrel, currently on the market, will yield match-type performance?

I think you are mistaken on your above statements. Chrome Molly Barrels resist heat better than SS barrels (less warping) and they generally have a higher round count than SS barrels (due to higher tensile strength). Most of of your precision weapons from Remy 700's to 50 Cal's to Varmint bolt guns use Chrome Molly barrels.

C4

www.GRTactical.com

Groups out of my 16" NOVESKE Chrome Molly barrel

Posted: 7/24/2005 9:15:49 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
I think you are mistaken on your above statements. Chrome Molly Barrels resist heat better than SS barrels (less warping) and they generally have a higher round count than SS barrels (due to higher tensile strength). Most of of your precision weapons from Remy 700's to 50 Cal's to Varmint bolt guns use Chrome Molly barrels.

So are you talking about total rounds until the barrel bursts (re: "have a higher round count than SS barrels (due to higher tensile strength)"), or accuracy lifetime? If the latter, why don't we see High Power shooters (Match or Service rifle) using CM barrels?

-z

Posted: 7/25/2005 3:19:58 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I think you are mistaken on your above statements. Chrome Molly Barrels resist heat better than SS barrels (less warping) and they generally have a higher round count than SS barrels (due to higher tensile strength). Most of of your precision weapons from Remy 700's to 50 Cal's to Varmint bolt guns use Chrome Molly barrels.

So are you talking about total rounds until the barrel bursts (re: "have a higher round count than SS barrels (due to higher tensile strength)"), or accuracy lifetime? If the latter, why don't we see High Power shooters (Match or Service rifle) using CM barrels?

-z

Total rounds fired until the barrel starts to degrade. HP shooters change barrels out more often than I change my oil!

C4

Posted: 7/25/2005 4:27:45 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I think you are mistaken on your above statements. Chrome Molly Barrels resist heat better than SS barrels (less warping) and they generally have a higher round count than SS barrels (due to higher tensile strength). Most of of your precision weapons from Remy 700's to 50 Cal's to Varmint bolt guns use Chrome Molly barrels.

So are you talking about total rounds until the barrel bursts (re: "have a higher round count than SS barrels (due to higher tensile strength)"), or accuracy lifetime? If the latter, why don't we see High Power shooters (Match or Service rifle) using CM barrels?

-z

The reason you see more SS than CM in HP or benchrest is that SS machines easier. It's easier for a bbl maufacture to drill, hone and rifle a SS barrel and it's easier for a smith to cut a good chamber. All of these things lead to better accuracy which is the ultimate goal of competition shooters.

Posted: 7/25/2005 4:55:23 AM EDT

[#7]

If you are one of the guys who shoots his gun to death, never cleans it, never maintains it, and waits till something breaks to do anything, then a chrome lined barrel is for you.

If you perform any kind of cleaning and maintenance on your gun, then the only thing you might notice is the better accuracy from the unchromed barrel.

I can understand your feelings, because the way chrome-lining is hyped around here, you'd think that your gun would not work if it didn't have a chrome-lined barrel. But don't worry, it will work just fine. When you move to an accuracy barrel, you leave the chrome lining in the past.

Posted: 7/25/2005 5:54:03 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
If you are one of the guys who shoots his gun to death, never cleans it, never maintains it, and waits till something breaks to do anything, then a chrome lined barrel is for you.

If you perform any kind of cleaning and maintenance on your gun, then the only thing you might notice is the better accuracy from the unchromed barrel.

I can understand your feelings, because the way chrome-lining is hyped around here, you'd think that your gun would not work if it didn't have a chrome-lined barrel. But don't worry, it will work just fine. When you move to an accuracy barrel, you leave the chrome lining in the past.

Agree. If you abuse your weapon then go chrome. If you have precision bolt rifles and enjoy their accuracy capability then get a Chrome Molly barrel and just apply proper maintenance to it.

C4

Posted: 7/25/2005 8:02:29 AM EDT

[#9]

Specifically, how does throat erosion rate & mechanism differ between SS and CM?

Posted: 7/25/2005 8:55:58 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Specifically, how does throat erosion rate & mechanism differ between SS and CM?

I am told by people that make barrels that because CM has a higher tensile strength that it wears slower. The test would be to get two barrels (one SS and the other CM) and get them chambered the same by one company. Then run the same ammo and round count through them and see what you get. This however is not a scientific test.

I do know that SS barrels are generally NEVER used with 50 cal barrels as SS get's small hair line fractures through the bore after only a couple of rounds.

C4

Posted: 7/26/2005 6:29:57 AM EDT

[#11]

I would like to know how tensile strength has any thing to do with how a barrel wears. All that is saying to me is that under tensile loads the barrel will be able to handle a higher load per area. If any one can relate why tensile strength contributes to barrel life I would actually like to know.

Matt

Posted: 7/26/2005 6:38:49 AM EDT

[#12]

wih all the great shooting non-chrome lined bbls. offered from our great dealers here the question is which one?

Posted: 7/26/2005 7:03:28 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
I would like to know how tensile strength has any thing to do with how a barrel wears. All that is saying to me is that under tensile loads the barrel will be able to handle a higher load per area. If any one can relate why tensile strength contributes to barrel life I would actually like to know.

Matt

Throat wear is the biggest issue with barrels. The harder the steel the less wear you will see in this area (from my understanding). This doesn't mean that you won't get a long barrel life out of a SS barrel, but I believe that CM barrels will last longer.

C4

Posted: 7/26/2005 7:25:39 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I would like to know how tensile strength has any thing to do with how a barrel wears. All that is saying to me is that under tensile loads the barrel will be able to handle a higher load per area. If any one can relate why tensile strength contributes to barrel life I would actually like to know.

Matt

Throat wear is the biggest issue with barrels. The harder the steel the less wear you will see in this area (from my understanding). This doesn't mean that you won't get a long barrel life out of a SS barrel, but I believe that CM barrels will last longer.

C4

Is there a direct correlation between tensile strength and hardness?

Posted: 7/26/2005 7:35:03 AM EDT

[#15]

Throat erosion is exacerbated by heat in the barrel.
When people shoot full auto, or bump fire, or shoot prairie dogs for long periods in hot sun, that raises the temperatures of the barrel significantly, and makes throat erosion occur more rapidly.

If a barrel stays cool, it erodes much slower, in either SS or CM.
While CM may be generally expected to be a little better, and chrome-lining also provides resistance to erosion, it has been showd that a cool running SS barrel can exceed the barrel life of a normal chrome-lined CM barrel by a large percentage.

So, while there may be some things that are generally accepted, they are not always correct in all circumstances.

Technology marches on, and has eclipsed what the previously accepted norms used to be.

When using an old technology steel barrel, you could expect erosion to be slightly less in a CM barrel, and even less in a chrome-lined barrel, compared to stainless steel. However, for match grade accuracy purposes, a SS barrel still is the choice of virtually all serious competitors.

In the new technology barrels, you can expect service life with match-grade accuracy of over 20k rounds, and maybe even up to as much as 50k rounds.

When you consider that this is about double or triple the normal expected accuracy life of a high-grade barrel, then it can make sense to spend more for the new technology, because you'll replace your barrel less often(and maybe never).

Posted: 7/26/2005 7:35:52 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Throat wear is the biggest issue with barrels. The harder the steel the less wear you will see in this area (from my understanding). This doesn't mean that you won't get a long barrel life out of a SS barrel, but I believe that CM barrels will last longer.

C4

Throats in CM barrel last almost as long as SS, but the benefit of SS is the throat will wear gradually. What HP shooters see with CM barrels, is as the CM barrels age, the throat will, without notice, overnight, shit the bed. I've seen a few CM barrels(after a few K rounds) hold the X at 600, and the next week wont be able to hold the 10. Seems odd, but it happens. A throat gauge will be swallowed when checked.

Posted: 7/26/2005 7:36:11 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Is there a direct correlation between tensile strength and hardness?

NO

Matt

Posted: 7/26/2005 7:43:22 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Throat erosion is exacerbated by heat in the barrel.
When people shoot full auto, or bump fire, or shoot prairie dogs for long periods in hot sun, that raises the temperatures of the barrel significantly, and makes throat erosion occur more rapidly.

If a barrel stays cool, it erodes much slower, in either SS or CM.
While CM may be generally expected to be a little better, and chrome-lining also provides resistance to erosion, it has been showd that a cool running SS barrel can exceed the barrel life of a normal chrome-lined CM barrel by a large percentage.

So, while there may be some things that are generally accepted, they are not always correct in all circumstances.

Technology marches on, and has eclipsed what the previously accepted norms used to be.

When using an old technology steel barrel, you could expect erosion to be slightly less in a CM barrel, and even less in a chrome-lined barrel, compared to stainless steel. However, for match grade accuracy purposes, a SS barrel still is the choice of virtually all serious competitors.

In the new technology barrels, you can expect service life with match-grade accuracy of over 20k rounds, and maybe even up to as much as 50k rounds.

When you consider that this is about double or triple the normal expected accuracy life of a high-grade barrel, then it can make sense to spend more for the new technology, because you'll replace your barrel less often(and maybe never).

So I shouldn't bump fire in the Arizona sun???

C4

Posted: 7/26/2005 7:46:57 AM EDT

[#19]

Yeah, but I'm not sure about if "aqua-bumping" might help out!

Posted: 7/26/2005 7:48:42 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Throat wear is the biggest issue with barrels. The harder the steel the less wear you will see in this area (from my understanding). This doesn't mean that you won't get a long barrel life out of a SS barrel, but I believe that CM barrels will last longer.

C4

Throats in CM barrel last almost as long as SS, but the benefit of SS is the throat will wear gradually. What HP shooters see with CM barrels, is as the CM barrels age, the throat will, without notice, overnight, shit the bed. I've seen a few CM barrels(after a few K rounds) hold the X at 600, and the next week wont be able to hold the 10. Seems odd, but it happens. A throat gauge will be swallowed when checked.

I have seen some CM drop right off as well. It either shoots or doesn't.

SS barrels are good to go as far as I am concerned, but wanted to try a diff. route with my Noveske barrels. Some folks believe that ONLY SS barrels can be super accurate and I wanted to disprove that theory.

C4

Posted: 7/26/2005 8:22:00 AM EDT

[#21]

I have both SS barrels and CM barrels, and I have found they can both be very accurate, from my experiences.

I have a Douglas 28.5" CM barrel on my 1000yd rifle, and it shoots 20 round groups into 9" with handloads, if I have a good day at the 1000yd bench. It's chambered in .300H&H, and is built on a customized Mauser 98 action, with a Unertl 20x target scope on it. Built by Larry Moore of Marine sniper rifle building fame.

Also had a Remington 700 with a CM barrel that could shoot 0.125" groups at 100yds, using my precision handloads in .308.

CM can be competitive for accuracy with a good SS barrel, no problem.

Posted: 7/26/2005 8:32:41 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
I have both SS barrels and CM barrels, and I have found they can both be very accurate, from my experiences.

I have a Douglas 28.5" CM barrel on my 1000yd rifle, and it shoots 20 round groups into 9" with handloads, if I have a good day at the 1000yd bench. It's chambered in .300H&H, and is built on a customized Mauser 98 action, with a Unertl 20x target scope on it. Built by Larry Moore of Marine sniper rifle building fame.

Also had a Remington 700 with a CM barrel that could shoot 0.125" groups at 100yds, using my precision handloads in .308.

CM can be competitive for accuracy with a good SS barrel, no problem.

Very nice!

C4

Posted: 7/26/2005 9:53:39 AM EDT

[#23]

I am a boilermaker by trade, and although I am not an expert on anything guns, I am well versed in my trade. Whenever there is going to be a high flow rate of exhaust on preheater tubes, there is always stainless steel guards on them. I have never seen carbon steel used in this manner. I take this as stainless have a better wear capabilities. If a guard isn't installed, the flow will eat right through the carbon steel tube. But when welding stainless, anyone will tell you that it keeps the heat in and drips all over you in the overhead position and will burn right through leather welding coats. I believe if a stainless barrel has mags dumped through it, a regular barrel will last longer. If a not shot to overheating I think a stainless would last longer. But then again, thats my opinion, I could be wrong

Posted: 7/26/2005 12:20:34 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I am a boilermaker by trade, and although I am not an expert on anything guns, I am well versed in my trade. Whenever there is going to be a high flow rate of exhaust on preheater tubes, there is always stainless steel guards on them. I have never seen carbon steel used in this manner. I take this as stainless have a better wear capabilities. If a guard isn't installed, the flow will eat right through the carbon steel tube. But when welding stainless, anyone will tell you that it keeps the heat in and drips all over you in the overhead position and will burn right through leather welding coats. I believe if a stainless barrel has mags dumped through it, a regular barrel will last longer. If a not shot to overheating I think a stainless would last longer. But then again, thats my opinion, I could be wrong

Cautiously and well said sir!

Posted: 7/26/2005 5:45:10 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I am a boilermaker by trade, and although I am not an expert on anything guns, I am well versed in my trade. Whenever there is going to be a high flow rate of exhaust on preheater tubes, there is always stainless steel guards on them. I have never seen carbon steel used in this manner. I take this as stainless have a better wear capabilities. If a guard isn't installed, the flow will eat right through the carbon steel tube. But when welding stainless, anyone will tell you that it keeps the heat in and drips all over you in the overhead position and will burn right through leather welding coats. I believe if a stainless barrel has mags dumped through it, a regular barrel will last longer. If a not shot to overheating I think a stainless would last longer. But then again, thats my opinion, I could be wrong

Cautiously and well said sir!

I would say this is due to accelerated corrosion at high tmeps for long peroids in boilers.

Posted: 7/28/2005 4:48:11 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
If you are one of the guys who shoots his gun to death, never cleans it, never maintains it, and waits till something breaks to do anything, then a chrome lined barrel is for you.

If you perform any kind of cleaning and maintenance on your gun, then the only thing you might notice is the better accuracy from the unchromed barrel.

I can understand your feelings, because the way chrome-lining is hyped around here, you'd think that your gun would not work if it didn't have a chrome-lined barrel. But don't worry, it will work just fine. When you move to an accuracy barrel, you leave the chrome lining in the past.

Thanks for the objective feedback.

Posted: 7/29/2005 3:25:05 AM EDT

[#27]

If you,re in a unfriendly environment go chrome

There may not be time to baby your rifle-

SS when you have the time and equipment to clean

Posted: 7/29/2005 8:22:08 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
If you,re in a unfriendly environment go chrome
There may not be time to baby your rifle-

SS when you have the time and equipment to clean

People keep saying this. I "never" clean my SS barrels, and I shoot for 3Gun and training quite a bit. If they get wet, I clean 'em out, but otherwise, just shoot shoot shoot..

Posted: 7/29/2005 1:55:48 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
If you,re in a unfriendly environment go chrome
There may not be time to baby your rifle-

SS when you have the time and equipment to clean

People keep saying this. I "never" clean my SS barrels, and I shoot for 3Gun and training quite a bit. If they get wet, I clean 'em out, but otherwise, just shoot shoot shoot..

See, that's what I used to think, too. Thanks for sharing your experience with SS barrels, Zak.

Zak, what drawbacks, if any, have you seen when using SS barrels on a HARD USE AR? Thanks.

Posted: 7/29/2005 2:48:37 PM EDT

[#30]

Did the basic issue weapons before the M16/M4 have chrome lined barrels? M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, M14?

I’m doing just fine with out chrome!

Posted: 7/29/2005 3:03:11 PM EDT

[#31]

The M-14 did.

Posted: 7/29/2005 3:14:05 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
The M-14 did.

Is that where the line is drawn, in the series of basic issue weapons that were non-chrome lined? Did it all begin with the M14?

Posted: 9/7/2005 11:28:31 PM EDT

[#33]

C4iGrant: I wasn't aware that the NOVESKE barrels were CHROME MOLLY. I was under the impression that there were stainless.

So, then, from what I'm understanding, the NOVESKE barrel would be more durable/robust than an SS barrel because of its higher tensile strenth/hardness? And a CHROME LINED barrel would be more durable still because of the extra protection the chrom lining adds. With this premise in mind then the an SS barrel would be the first to experience loss in performance, followed by the CM barrel and, finally, the chrome lined barrel. Of course, the non-chrome lined barrels are more concerned with accuracy and the CL barrel with HARD USE.

Well, now that I know that the NOVESKE is a CM barrel it definitely changes things.

By the way, are LILJA Dev Group barrels SS or CM?

Posted: 9/8/2005 12:01:27 AM EDT

[#34]

The Noveske AR barrels are all SS (unless he did some CM on special order). Noveske makes a lot of barrels, not just AR barrels and not only polygonal.

I am a big fan of polygonal rifling. A Noveske SS barrel will resist the elements, and if some of the Noveske barrels out there are typical, still deliver sub MOA accuracy after the 10k round mark.

Posted: 9/8/2005 12:11:24 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
The Noveske AR barrels are all SS (unless he did some CM on special order). Noveske makes a lot of barrels, not just AR barrels and not only polygonal.

I am a big fan of polygonal rifling. A Noveske SS barrel will resist the elements, and if some of the Noveske barrels out there are typical, still deliver sub MOA accuracy after the 10k round mark.

I guess Grant is wrong?

I'm used to sometimes not cleaning up my chrome lined Bushy after every shooting session. Will that be a big no-no with a NOVESKE SS barrel? I'm just curious as to how "involved" the cleaning will have to be with such a barrel. I guess I've been spoiled by CL barrels.

Posted: 9/8/2005 12:20:41 AM EDT

[#36]

Grant may well have a cut rifled or noveske barrel. He makes the same profile in cut rifled, but they aren't all the rage like the polygonal. To my knowledge, the polygonal 5.56mm AR barrels are all stainless (excluding the possibility of a limited run, special order, etc).

I'm not trying to question Grant at all.

Posted: 9/8/2005 12:23:05 AM EDT

[#37]

Cleaning polygonal barrels (theone to get, IMHO) is a different process. On his website,]jnrifleworks.com, Mr. Noveske has posted cleaning instructions.

I'm a chrome lined mafia member myself, so I am not qualified to speak to the issue in any detail.

Posted: 9/8/2005 4:49:16 AM EDT

[#38]

Interesting. I looked at Grants page, and he lists the 14.5 and 16s as CM, while Noveskes page lists all of them as ss.

Posted: 9/8/2005 5:37:10 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
C4iGrant: I wasn't aware that the NOVESKE barrels were CHROME MOLLY. I was under the impression that there were stainless.

So, then, from what I'm understanding, the NOVESKE barrel would be more durable/robust than an SS barrel because of its higher tensile strenth/hardness? And a CHROME LINED barrel would be more durable still because of the extra protection the chrom lining adds. With this premise in mind then the an SS barrel would be the first to experience loss in performance, followed by the CM barrel and, finally, the chrome lined barrel. Of course, the non-chrome lined barrels are more concerned with accuracy and the CL barrel with HARD USE.

Well, now that I know that the NOVESKE is a CM barrel it definitely changes things.

By the way, are LILJA Dev Group barrels SS or CM?

Noveske barrels are generally SS. I had him do a special run of CM barrels for me (to basically the same specs as this SS). It really comes down to personal pref. on barrel material and I trust CM over SS when it comes to handling heat and durability.

C4

Posted: 9/8/2005 7:43:07 AM EDT

[#40]

fantastic thread... i think a lot of us are all thinking along the same lines with each other.... I think it just comes down to a limitation of data....

We can rely on our personal experiences to a point...

Taken from the Noveske site talking about the 10.5" CQB barrel 5.56 SS barrel:

"The bottom picture shows a cold 5 shot group on a clean barrel. The rifle belongs to an outstanding member of the Special Operations community. The lower shot was the fouler (clean Barrel), the left round was called (stock trigger), the three others represent the barrels ability at 100 yards. Please note, this was done after over 9000 rounds fired in four days."

if thats not extreme wear i don't know what is... is it possible that SS has its throat go down hill quicker... but the polygonal rifling in this barrel helps keep the bullet more stable therefore making it accurate after its left the throat? (i'm just brain storming)

I guess i'm just confused exactly how throat and the rifle twist relates to accuracy, which has more of an impact and in what ways...

again great thread... i hope we can keep this going with good involvment and info.

Posted: 9/8/2005 8:20:53 AM EDT

[#41]

Noveske 10.5" CQB 220 rd mag dump VIDEO

Another test.

Posted: 9/8/2005 8:34:45 AM EDT

[#42]

My understanding from Zediker's book "The Mouse That Roared" was that the throat of a SS barrel looked nasty, but still shot well longer than CM.

Posted: 9/8/2005 10:04:56 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
My understanding from Zediker's book "The Mouse That Roared" was that the throat of a SS barrel looked nasty, but still shot well longer than CM.

SS throats wear gradually you can tell when your groups begin to open up more and more. CM throats tend to all of a sudden poop the bed without warning. Its seen often in HP circles.

Posted: 9/8/2005 2:40:06 PM EDT

[#44]

It seems that many feel stainless will hold accuracy longer and wear better if its not shot to overheating. So.....hOw hot is too hot then for stainless????

Posted: 9/8/2005 2:43:45 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
It seems that many feel stainless will hold accuracy longer and wear better if its not shot to overheating. So.....hOw hot is too hot then for stainless????

A properly contoured stainless barrel will hold accuracy throughout continuous careful aimed fire. If you are firing faster than aimed fire, you arent shooting for accuracy, so you'll never notice any difference in the groups.

Posted: 9/8/2005 3:09:36 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
A properly contoured stainless barrel will hold accuracy throughout continuous careful aimed fire. If you are firing faster than aimed fire, you arent shooting for accuracy, so you'll never notice any difference in the groups.

Define "properly" and "careful" and then this might be meaningful.

For example-- If "careful aimed fire" is satisfied by using 1" dots at 100 yards, I can do this until the barrel explodes shooting a round every 1 or two seconds. Show me any barrel that will do this without drifting POI.

-z

Posted: 9/8/2005 3:26:45 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Quoted:
A properly contoured stainless barrel will hold accuracy throughout continuous careful aimed fire. If you are firing faster than aimed fire, you arent shooting for accuracy, so you'll never notice any difference in the groups.

Define "properly" and "careful" and then this might be meaningful.

For example-- If "careful aimed fire" is satisfied by using 1" dots at 100 yards, I can do this until the barrel explodes shooting a round every 1 or two seconds. Show me any barrel that will do this without drifting POI.

-z

16" medium countour SS barrel at 600yds. I put 20 shots all on call, in 9 minutes. If you can hold a 12" circle with a shot every 2 seconds at the same distance, you're damn good. I have to breath, watch the wind, maintain my natural point of aim, and my eyes aren't what they used to be so I need rest them too.

Thats careful aimed fire. Minute of Dead is an entire different story.

Shooting a lighter contour 16" SS barrel at distances from 50-300yds(US ARMY qual course), where a shot is taken every 8 seconds for 40 exposures(if you can find and fire 2 shots at the target you're good) I fired off 60 shots, and the barrel got REALLY hot. There were two of us shooting the same uppers - he scored 40, I got 38. This was using 55gr ball ammo, we were still getting hits at 300yds.

I had zeroed these uppers the day before and was sub MOA at 100yds with 69gr MatchKings.
I went back to the range after shooting at the pop-ups and fired 2 shots every 8 seconds for 60rounds to see the effect of the heat. The best I could get the barrels to group was 4-5MOA (was stringing vertically).

Take your time and carefully aim, you can shoot nice groups with an SS barrel. Blast away at bad guys and shoot 4-5 MOA - you'll still get the bad guys.

Junior after cleaning the course

Posted: 9/8/2005 3:49:35 PM EDT

[#48]

at 600yds. I put 20 shots all on call, in 9 minutes

Take your time and carefully aim, you can shoot nice groups with an SS barrel.

It turns out this is much less interesting than I had hoped.

There is a middle ground between High-Power and "minute of dead" CQB hosing, and that's where the barrel debate gets interesting. How many sustained rounds can I shoot through barrel X before it drifts or opens more than Y MOA?

ETA:

For example, can a barrel withstand a high-intensity close-range 100-round course of fire and still be able to engage small distant targets successfuly immediately afterwards?

Posted: 9/8/2005 4:56:07 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
at 600yds. I put 20 shots all on call, in 9 minutes

Take your time and carefully aim, you can shoot nice groups with an SS barrel.

It turns out this is much less interesting than I had hoped.

There is a middle ground between High-Power and "minute of dead" CQB hosing, and that's where the barrel debate gets interesting. How many sustained rounds can I shoot through barrel X before it drifts or opens more than Y MOA?

ETA:

For example, can a barrel withstand a high-intensity close-range 100-round course of fire and still be able to engage small distant targets successfuly immediately afterwards?

amen... will we ever find the values for those variables..

Posted: 9/8/2005 5:50:35 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
For example, can a barrel withstand a high-intensity close-range 100-round course of fire and still be able to engage small distant targets successfuly immediately afterwards?

Who can tell? I'm confident I could run 100rounds through my MID SS barrel and hit a half man sized target at 300yds, which is all I would expect from a 5.56.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Non-chromed lined barrels on AR's (Page 1 of 2)

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