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Posted: 4/23/2011 4:39:00 AM EDT
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=282&t=203228
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 4:55:25 AM EDT
In order to stay competitive, Spike's has to overhaul their upper to compete with
CMMG. Everyone is having trouble with suppliers and quality issues. It's almost
like suppliers have gone Brain Dead. You'd be amazed at some of the crap our
Industry Partners are receiving and have to sort through. None want that garbage
getting out to customers. Spike's is making the right choice, backing off this
market and developing new things. Hopefully they will also find better suppliers
too.

Spec / Dave
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 8:25:47 AM EDT
Well, snap.  Thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 9:24:25 PM EDT
It's odd they blame their supplier on not getting them supply and quality yet they are working a new design to release. If the supplier is the problem, why are they going to work on a new design?
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 9:43:52 PM EDT
Quoted:
It's odd they blame their supplier on not getting them supply and quality yet they are working a new design to release. If the supplier is the problem, why are they going to work on a new design?


Possibly that their new design allows them to utilize modified/revised parts from a different supplier.
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 10:27:04 PM EDT
Lucky to have got mine when I did and to have it so problem free.
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 4:57:03 AM EDT
I love my Spikes upper... accurate and was pretty reliable (aside from rounds going up into the charging handle).

I think it sucks that they stopped offering it, but I do plan on buying a CMMG bolt assembly to use in my Spikes upper. In a .22, I like the forward assist. I also like the takedown of the CMMG bolt, and not to mention the bolt hold open (waiting until they release their new magazines, hopefully with a 15 round option). I definitely plan on the CMMG charging handle, as well as that ejection port cover.

The only way I'd change my plans would be if Spikes redesigned the bolt to function like the new CMMG design, as well as the magazine followers that allowed it to function like the standard AR (not that one bolt hold open that I would need to swap releases, since I use one lower for 5.56mm, .22, and .410).
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 5:31:45 AM EDT
So ive got a dedicated spikes unit and barrel........will the CMMG bolt work in place of my spikes?  or is the the collar and barrel diff for CMMG.
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 6:14:54 AM EDT
Collars use a .460" for CMMG barrels; barrels are for for Spike's, M1S,  Kuehl, Beyer (probably either makers both).
Collars go any bolt.
So you put your Spike's collar if you want to use a CMMG bolt with your Spike's barrel.
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 6:41:24 AM EDT
Quoted:
So ive got a dedicated spikes unit and barrel........will the CMMG bolt work in place of my spikes?  or is the the collar and barrel diff for CMMG.


The bolt will work fine. Just replace the CMMG collar with the Spikes collar.
Barrels and collars are different. Spikes uses a slip collar. CMMG uses a collar with a spring detent that snaps onto the barrel, holding the unit in place. Your bolt doesn't fall out when you open the receiver.
Dave N

Link Posted: 4/24/2011 7:14:08 AM EDT
I had a Spike's .22LR conversion and it ran ok but was not reliable.  I had to to a lot of tweaking to get it to run and then is still had more problems that I would have liked.  I just put together a CMMG .22LR upper and the quality compared to the Spike's is SO much better in every way.
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 7:52:14 AM EDT
CMMG designed the kits to run, not be made to run by the end user. While the kits may look the same, they are not. Little differences in engineering are what make the CMMG kits so reliable.
Dave N
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 3:24:34 PM EDT
I'm glad I held out for a CMMG. I was going to order a Spike's or a TacSol dedicated upper, but the CMMG seemed to offer more for the money. Mine has been insanely reliable. Over 600 rounds SUPPRESSED in one session. If you've ever used a rimfire suppressor you know what kind of crap blows back into the action. I can't recommend CMMG enough.
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 5:52:47 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
So ive got a dedicated spikes unit and barrel........will the CMMG bolt work in place of my spikes?  or is the the collar and barrel diff for CMMG.


The bolt will work fine. Just replace the CMMG collar with the Spikes collar.
Barrels and collars are different. Spikes uses a slip collar. CMMG uses a collar with a spring detent that snaps onto the barrel, holding the unit in place. Your bolt doesn't fall out when you open the receiver.
Dave N




In your opinion........does the collar and barrel design of the CMMG offer anything towards reliability that the spikes doesnt?......or is it all in the bolt?  
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 7:38:13 PM EDT
The Spikes collar slips on which can range from loose to snug. Loose allows the action more movement which can create failures.
The CMMG collar has a spring detent which snaps into a machined groove on the barrel. It helps keep the action from moving.
But there are diffences in the bolt and rails that work along with the collar/barrel set up. It's reliable for good reason. I can tell you for a fact that 1000's of hours went into the building and improvement of this system.

That is why I hestitate when I say the Spikes will work fine with the CMMG collar. I should say, it should fit and work.
Dave N
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 9:15:09 PM EDT
I have some Tac Sol uppers. They function 100% and if they don't, send them in and they will fix that.....but they cost more and lack the options of the CMMG.   But they are fine pieces. Bolt design is their own...beautifully done, but different than Spikes/CMMG and others.

I had a Spikes conversion. Spikes customer service was great and I can not say enough good about Tom and the gang, but sadly I never could get that thing to run as well as it should.

I have had two CMMG conversions and built a dedicated upper with CMMG parts and I have to sing its praise. Parts, options, support, the thing runs great with me having to tune it. I did do a polish job on it, see the sticky about "making it run smoother",  but that was simple work that only takes a few minutes. I shoot this rifle the most because it has all the goodies and runs like a champ.

And....the price is right!
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 9:42:38 PM EDT
Glad I got my ST22 upper when I did.  It has been relatively flawless.  After its initial break in, I have had only 4 misfeeds out of about 4,000 rounds (I have been using CCI mini mags exclusively).  Accuracy is excellent.  For a semi auto .22. I will take that performance any day.  I am going to try the Federal bulk pack in it, The mini mags are getting expesive to shoot all the time.

Sad to see Spike's is taking a hiatus for now.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 3:54:42 AM EDT
Quoted:
The Spikes collar slips on which can range from loose to snug. Loose allows the action more movement which can create failures.
The CMMG collar has a spring detent which snaps into a machined groove on the barrel. It helps keep the action from moving.
But there are diffences in the bolt and rails that work along with the collar/barrel set up. It's reliable for good reason. I can tell you for a fact that 1000's of hours went into the building and improvement of this system.

That is why I hestitate when I say the Spikes will work fine with the CMMG collar. I should say, it should fit and work.
Dave N


Dave is a man who speaks the truth; wise advice for those who would think everything would be O.K. swapping parts.  Some adjustments
may be required no matter what.

Thanks Dave for the straight dope.

Ted
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 8:42:23 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Spikes collar slips on which can range from loose to snug. Loose allows the action more movement which can create failures.
The CMMG collar has a spring detent which snaps into a machined groove on the barrel. It helps keep the action from moving.
But there are diffences in the bolt and rails that work along with the collar/barrel set up. It's reliable for good reason. I can tell you for a fact that 1000's of hours went into the building and improvement of this system.

That is why I hestitate when I say the Spikes will work fine with the CMMG collar. I should say, it should fit and work.
Dave N


Dave is a man who speaks the truth; wise advice for those who would think everything would be O.K. swapping parts.  Some adjustments
may be required no matter what.

Thanks Dave for the straight dope.

Ted


I have a Spike's chamber adapter running with a CMMG rail and bolt. It has been 100% reliable. But, I did have to do just a small amount of "adjustment" on the chamber adapter where the rails fit in as they are ever so slightly different.

But, because this one kit worked out does not mean that all of them will.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 8:48:11 AM EDT
Quoted:
I'm glad I held out for a CMMG. I was going to order a Spike's or a TacSol dedicated upper, but the CMMG seemed to offer more for the money. Mine has been insanely reliable. Over 600 rounds SUPPRESSED in one session. If you've ever used a rimfire suppressor you know what kind of crap blows back into the action. I can't recommend CMMG enough.


+1
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 9:52:12 AM EDT
All this talk about collars makes me feel good I have an older Kuehl barrel that doesn't use a collar.  Yes the rail is modified but it works better than the Spikes I have and it has Ciener guts.  I do like how easy it is to clean the Spikes kit.  The CMMG collar retention system sounds interesting.  I'm holding out on getting a stainless CMMG kit until they release their sear trip.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 10:01:29 AM EDT
This is what I heard from CMMG when I was at shot show. That the people from Spikes stopped over at the CMMG and seen what CMMG evolution was all about and that Spikes decided to stop doing the 22's because of what CMMG has been coming out with and designing.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 11:21:33 AM EDT
I can only imagine how much it cost them in time, $$$ and reputation when the 22 kits have problems.  And the fact that the S&W 22 complete rifle is so cheap.





They are killing themselves to produce 5.56 rifles to keep up with demand.  Can't blame them for focusing on what is best for the company.

 
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:31:54 PM EDT
Damnit, spikes was the only place that had barrels with FSB attached.  I also wanted a LW barrel.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 1:16:22 PM EDT
You can still contact them about the barrels. Can't hurt.
The Lothar Walther barrels are very nice.
Dave N
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 5:13:59 PM EDT
Quoted:
You can still contact them about the barrels. Can't hurt.
The Lothar Walther barrels are very nice.
Dave N


Dave, from my experience with Spike's I learned that their LW barrels come from Adam's Ballistic Advantage, which is right across
the street from Spike's. Adam is very, very, very busy, however, he can and does make Spike's barrels for the ST-22, among others.
I have two of Adam's LW barrels and they've won matches for me. So if it's a LW for a Spike's collar that someone is looking for, then
may I suggest going directly to BA - ONE MUST BE PATIENT, & BE PREPARED TO WAIT. BA does top notch work.

Ted
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 5:16:51 PM EDT
I did not know that. I had the impression Spikes turned them.
Dave N
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 9:28:54 AM EDT
Quoted:
Damnit, spikes was the only place that had barrels with FSB attached.  I also wanted a LW barrel.


They were also the only ones with a lightweight profile .22 barrel  :

Link Posted: 4/29/2011 12:23:22 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Damnit, spikes was the only place that had barrels with FSB attached.  I also wanted a LW barrel.


They were also the only ones with a lightweight profile .22 barrel  :

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k81/1811guy2/ars.jpg


I have thought about getting my Spike's upper re-profiled.  It looks like an M4 profile in front of the FSB, but it is really chunky under the handguards.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 12:51:41 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Damnit, spikes was the only place that had barrels with FSB attached.  I also wanted a LW barrel.


They were also the only ones with a lightweight profile .22 barrel  :

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k81/1811guy2/ars.jpg


I have thought about getting my Spike's upper re-profiled.  It looks like an M4 profile in front of the FSB, but it is really chunky under the handguards.


I think it would be worth it.  The lightweight profile for a small carbine is ideal - very nice for the ST22.  My only gripe is the FSB journal is .75".  A true lightweight profile is .625".  Given that your FSB is already pinned, it would be easier to keep yours at .75" if you do get it reprofiled.  below is a pic of my DD lightweight for comparison.  Functionally they are the same, but the .625" journal looks better IMO.

Link Posted: 4/29/2011 3:58:37 PM EDT
Clint Beyer Barrels are right up there with Lother Walther. Actually, the M4 profile
outshot the LW Bull 18" I used.. CMMG offers the Beyer Barrel as an upgrade.

Link Posted: 4/29/2011 4:18:41 PM EDT
Wish I could compare the two.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 5:15:57 PM EDT
I started waiting on a 450 Bushmaster Barrel from Adam over 2 years ago.. I don't think it's gonna happen.

Been waiting 3 years on Kevin at Black Dog Machine to get our project into productions.. Don't think that's gonna
happen either.. Prove me wrong Kevin....

Ted, You really have to try one of Clint Beyers Barrels sometime..
Shadowcop, I'm workin on that... Hop a Flight to Florida some wekend....

Dave
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 3:14:42 AM EDT
Quoted:
I started waiting on a 450 Bushmaster Barrel from Adam over 2 years ago.. I don't think it's gonna happen.

Been waiting 3 years on Kevin at Black Dog Machine to get our project into productions.. Don't think that's gonna
happen either.. Prove me wrong Kevin....

Ted, You really have to try one of Clint Beyers Barrels sometime..
Shadowcop, I'm workin on that... Hop a Flight to Florida some wekend....

Dave


Dave, I have considered it.  Thought of tearing my Spike's down and replacing the BCG with CMMG, but as we all
know the collars are different and there are dimensional differences that affect the CMMG collar's fit on a Spike's rail.
So I was thinking of having the Spike's LW turned by a gunsmith in CT (JoJo's) so I could use the CMMG collar. I think I
recall CMMG's extension is a smaller diameter than the Spike's barrel extension. But that means more hassles than I
need right now, so I looked at Beyer's prices and I'm thinking I may just try one to speed the process up.

We have finally decided to make our AR home permanent, all year, despite all of the tornado/straight line wind horors. This living in two
states is becoming a pain so the moving vans will be showing up soon. After that Mr. Beyer's Barrels and I will probably
get together.

Thanks for the tip,
Ted
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 4:38:44 AM EDT
Ted,

Clint has a collar that's more standard if you want to use it. He makes it a very tight
fit to the barrel. Almost as solid as the ball and detent collar of CMMG. The 16" barrel
that I have used it for testing with the Target Master Conversion. I shot many different ammo's
and it was unbelievably accurate.


Good Luck settling down in one place...

Dave
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 10:28:55 PM EDT
Quoted:
Glad I got my ST22 upper when I did.  It has been relatively flawless.  After its initial break in, I have had only 4 misfeeds out of about 4,000 rounds (I have been using CCI mini mags exclusively).  Accuracy is excellent.  For a semi auto .22. I will take that performance any day.  I am going to try the Federal bulk pack in it, The mini mags are getting expesive to shoot all the time.

Sad to see Spike's is taking a hiatus for now.


You might want to try the Winchester 555 and 333, even the USA marked white box. I've gotten pretty good accuracy with all of them out of my Spikes/Model 1 barrel.

I like your screen name.

Link Posted: 5/2/2011 5:42:20 AM EDT
I have tried both of them with dismal results; don't feed worth a damn.

Like your screen name also - not many know what it means.
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