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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 7/18/2008 9:26:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 9:29:20 AM EST by Baldmonk]
I'm looking to try my hand at a low powered variable scope for 3 gun. Out of the 3 (NF, S&B, and USO) what is the downsides and upsides to each? And I'm prepared to pay for quality.

Also has anyone tried the USO SN4 1.5-6 yet with a lit reticle?

I already have a TA11F, TA31F, and sold the TA33 (FOV really sucked) so don't even go there. The TA31F is actually faster for me of the 3 (I'm a nose to charging handle shooter), but the TA11F is better in weird shooting positions but heavy and bulky.

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 9:51:10 AM EST
Swarovski also makes a low power scope smilar to the 3 you listed, it is around 2100 bucks, and if I recall correctly the guy that I know that runs one on his 3gun rifle has a 1-9 power, that sounds wrong though. Super clear glass, almost as if the picture is more clear in the scope than through your eye! I settled for the Millet dms-1 for about 225 bucks. The millet is lighted, and has a fast reticle in my opinion. doughnut and dot.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:22:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 10:26:04 AM EST by DevL]

Originally Posted By Baldmonk:
I'm looking to try my hand at a low powered variable scope for 3 gun. Out of the 3 (NF, S&B, and USO) what is the downsides and upsides to each? And I'm prepared to pay for quality.

Also has anyone tried the USO SN4 1.5-6 yet with a lit reticle?

I already have a TA11F, TA31F, and sold the TA33 (FOV really sucked) so don't even go there. The TA31F is actually faster for me of the 3 (I'm a nose to charging handle shooter), but the TA11F is better in weird shooting positions but heavy and bulky.



I you should also consider the Meopta K-Dot if you are considering the NF 1-4X IMO. The Swarovski 1-6X is also less than the Short Dot... its not even $2000 much less $2100 and with LE or mil discounts you can get it around $1600 or so.

This is how I see it and other will see it differently. Looked at lots of scopes and tried to get a pro/con of each.

S&B 1.1-4X

Pros- Fine aming point or Aimpoint bright dot. Older scopes have FFP reticle, you can have a BDC turret OR locking turrets but not both. Auto shut off on the illumination so you battery wont die. 100 hour battery life.

Cons- Not true 1X on the low end, expensive, heavy, blue tint to glass in first getn models, 2nd focal plane in Gen 2 models.

US Optics SN4

Pros- Multitude of knobs and reticle choices you can custom order, can add a doubler

Cons- Older units not true 1X, battery life under 12 hours at max power, glued on rheostat, heavy, no daytime illumination

NF 1-4X

Pros- True 1X, now have zero stop elevation avilable form what I hear

Cons- No daytime illumination, 2nd focal plane, no BDC turrets

Swarovski 1-6X

Pros- True 1X and 6X, no eye relief issue youd expect with that large a magnification shift, daytime bright reticle with day and night settings and auto off.

Cons- 2nd focal plane reticle, No BDC turret

Meopta 1-4X

Pros- Least expensive while offering glass comparable to the others, true 1x on the low end, daytime bright reticle

Cons- built in sunshade makes scope long, 2nd focal plane reticle, no BDC turret



Glass will be comparable for all the scopes... they all have good glass.

So it really comes down to a few points:

1st focal plane reticle for ranging/holdovers or 2nd focal plane reticle ideal for just 200-300m and in shooting?
True 1X important or not?
Do you mind a tint to the glass?
Do you want daytime illumination?
Is 4X enough magnification?
Are you prone to accidentally leaving the illumination on and killing your battery?

None of these does it all. ALL are heavier and bulkier than a TA11 you consider heavy and bulky.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:25:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By DevL:

S&B 1.1-4X

...you can have a BDC turret OR locking turrets but not both...


I'm not quite sure what you mean here, as my Gen II FFP Short Dots have locking BDC turrets. S&B makes them for M855, TAP T2, and M118LR.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:29:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 10:30:57 AM EST by DevL]

Originally Posted By vmpglenn:

Originally Posted By DevL:

S&B 1.1-4X

...you can have a BDC turret OR locking turrets but not both...


I'm not quite sure what you mean here, as my Gen II FFP Short Dots have locking BDC turrets. S&B makes them for M855, TAP T2, and M118LR.


I called about ordering one from a stocking dealer and they told me it was either/or... you can lift to unlock the turrets GenII or swap them (Gen I) but you say your does both? Youd think people who sell thsese things would know... at least thats another pro for the S&B... that bit of info was a real turn off for me at the time. Nice to hear its not true.

Do you know if it is true there are no FFP models without blue tint to the glass? I cant get a straight answer on that either.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:36:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 10:37:13 AM EST by CaseyJ]

Originally Posted By DevL:
NF 1-4X

Pros- True 1X, now have zero stop elevation avilable form what I hear


I have heard that they are only available to military, I have not called to verify this so take it with a grain of salt.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:06:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By DevL:

I called about ordering one from a stocking dealer and they told me it was either/or... you can lift to unlock the turrets GenII or swap them (Gen I) but you say your does both? Youd think people who sell thsese things would know... at least thats another pro for the S&B... that bit of info was a real turn off for me at the time. Nice to hear its not true.

Do you know if it is true there are no FFP models without blue tint to the glass? I cant get a straight answer on that either.


If there is a blue tint to my FFP Short Dots, it is nearly imperceptible. The blue tint in my Aimpoint Micro T-1s is way, way more pronounced than anything I can see through the Short Dots.

The S&B glass is, simply put, incredible. And this is coming from a guy that has owned and shot Aimpoint, Trijicon, Super Sniper, Burris, Nikon, Leupold, IOR, and US Optics scopes.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:27:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:29:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By CSGunWorkscom:
I’m not a fan of FFP 1-4x scopes the reason is at 1x the reticle is to thin making them slow and at 4x they are thick covering a lot of the target. I feel a SFP 1-4x is the way to go for at 1x the reticle will be easer to see making quick for the eye to pick up and at 4x they lines will not cover your target and you can use the BDC or Mil / MOA reticles for holdovers.

Nightforce no offer the 0-Stop to everyone. In this scope I recommend the Mil-Dot because the lines are think and your eye is drawn to the center.
www.csgunworks.com/product_images/3603.jpg
The NF NXS 1-4x24mm w/ 0 Stop has 19moa in one turn and the wind-age also has a wind stop in it also. On the 4x one you can only go down to you Zero and you can only go up to 19moa or so tell it stop. 19 moa should be good for most 223 it should get you out past 600yds.
www.csgunworks.com/product_images/3607.jpg


Mike @ CSGW


Mike, do the NF 1-4x scopes have locking turrets or turret caps? Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 12:48:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 12:56:23 PM EST by Baldmonk]
Any one have any expence with the USO SN4 ?
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 1:30:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 1:32:57 PM EST by CSGunWorkscom]
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 1:39:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 3:11:07 PM EST by mousegunner]

Originally Posted By Baldmonk:
I'm looking to try my hand at a low powered variable scope for 3 gun. Out of the 3 (NF, S&B, and USO) what is the downsides and upsides to each? And I'm prepared to pay for quality.

Also has anyone tried the USO SN4 1.5-6 yet with a lit reticle?

I already have a TA11F, TA31F, and sold the TA33 (FOV really sucked) so don't even go there. The TA31F is actually faster for me of the 3 (I'm a nose to charging handle shooter), but the TA11F is better in weird shooting positions but heavy and bulky.



I have the NightForce 1-4 and the S&B Zenith 1.5-6, plus a Meopta KDot 1-4.

The NightForce is a good scope, but for 3 gun I require a daytime visible reticle, which the NightForce doesn't have.

I just got the S&B, and the glass looks great and the reticle is sufficiently bright to run as a pseudo-red dot. I found that I can use up to 1.5x at close range if the glass is sufficiently clear and the reticle is bright; I got it to work a few weeks ago with the Meopta - didn't have any issues even at point blank range. FWIW, I did have problems using a Trijicon AccuPoint at 1.25, but the glass in them aren't up to NightForce/S&B/Meopta standards. And the 6x upper limit gives me 50% more magnification for the really long shots.

While this is a personal issue, I'd recommend a SFP reticle for a 3 gun scope, as you don't need to do ranging, and the reticle is bigger at 1x.


Link Posted: 7/18/2008 1:41:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By DevL:

Swarovski 1-6X

Pros- True 1X and 6X, no eye relief issue youd expect with that large a magnification shift, daytime bright reticle with day and night settings and auto off.


OK, I was told that the Swarovski reticles are *not* daytime visible, or at least not nearly as bright as a Meopta or S&B reticle. Was that info wrong?

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 2:35:34 PM EST
Any difference as to how tough? (US, SB, NF, Swar. Meopta)

In general, can these types of optics take much of a beating, compared to an Aimpoint or EoTech?
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 2:56:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:01:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By CSGunWorkscom:

Originally Posted By HardBoiled:
Any difference as to how tough? (US, SB, NF, Swar. Meopta)

In general, can these types of optics take much of a beating, compared to an Aimpoint or EoTech?


I'm not sure about the Swar. but for the others yes they can take a beating like and Aimpoint or an EoTech and the USO, S&B, and the NF maybe able to take even more then Aimpoint or EoTech.

Another scope that will take a beating is the Leupold QC/T 1-3.

Mike @ CSGW


Nice!

Thank you for the info!
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 4:04:27 AM EST
Seeing if anyone else has any input?
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