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Posted: 12/23/2003 6:57:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2003 7:05:50 PM EDT by MisterFlinch]
I've reviewed the ammo FAQ's and read everything I could on the ammo-oracle site, but am still unclear on SS109 ammo.  I have seen quite a few versions on the web at various ammo dealer sites.  Some of the ones I've seen include: Igman, Olympic, S&B, Spanish (Santa Barbra), and even Israeli.  Are any of these true SS109/M855 or are they all of the "downloaded" variety referenced on the FAQ site?
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 8:05:11 PM EDT
If you want serious use ammo, I would most definately pick the Israeli IMI M855 ammo over the others. What you need to keep in mind is that SS109 only refers to the bullet design. You could have the same bullet in various loads but they may not all be loaded as hot as M855. M855 ammo is the US standard and it tends to be a bit hotter than other ammo using the SS109 bullet from other countries. However the Israeli M855 is loaded to the same standards and IMI ammo is good stuff.

I have used some of the S&B SS109 and find it pretty decent ammo. It seems hot enough and I have had no problems with it. But I am not sure I would trust it farther than just plinking.

But before buying any SS109/M855 loads, I would carefully reference the ammo-oracle once again and pay particular attention to the section where M193 (55 gr) is compared with M855 (62 gr). Unless you plan to engage hardened targets such as steel out at 300 yards and farther, I would just stick to M193. It is cheaper, seems to offer more consistent terminal performance and is often easier to obtain. The only advantage M855 type ammo offers is enhanced penetration at longer ranges. Otherwise I feel M193 is the better general purpose round in every other regard.

-CH
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 5:29:57 AM EDT
C_H, thanks for the reply.  I suspect that much of the advertised SS109 is just as you stated - the bullet design only.  I would like to pick up a case of true SS109/M855 for storage "just in case", as I will likely use Q3131A or M193 for most of my regular shooting.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 12:23:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 1:03:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MisterFlinch:
C_H, thanks for the reply.  I suspect that much of the advertised SS109 is just as you stated - the bullet design only.  I would like to pick up a case of true SS109/M855 for storage "just in case", as I will likely use Q3131A or M193 for most of my regular shooting.
View Quote


Forgive me but I have to ask... just in case of what?  As far as I know the rounds only function is to punch through helmets at 800m.  Its also not very accurate at that range.  What are you intending this ammo to do that M193 will not?
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 8:36:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DevL:
Forgive me but I have to ask... just in case of what?  As far as I know the rounds only function is to punch through helmets at 800m.  Its also not very accurate at that range.  What are you intending this ammo to do that M193 will not?
View Quote


Just in case I want to shoot cars at Knob Creek or something.  I have a penchant for collecting ammo types and this would be just another one to add to the collection.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 2:51:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2003 2:52:32 PM EDT by phobia]
I have shot the Hotshot SS109 ammo, seemed hot but was pretty dirty.  IMI was awesome, some LC M855 from a few SAW belts I purchased was great also.  I also shot alot of the Radway Green British ammo, worked fine but seemed weak, good plinking ammo, but pricey and no green tip on it.  
    Whatever you do, stay away from the Greek Olympic SS109, it is the only ammo that has caused any kind of problems in my Bushy M4gery.

Anyway, welcome aboard, now just sit back and soak in the knowledge.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 5:13:30 PM EDT
Thanks for the reply, phobia.  I am very new to the AR-15 community, but have a pretty good mentor (RedLeg).  He's really into the AR-15 thing (I think he shot on the Army competition team) and is helping me along the way.  I just ordered my first AR-type rifle (Rock River CAR-15) and a case of M193 from Wholesale Hunter, so my journey has just begun.  As stated above, I would like to pick up some SS109/M855 just to have around, but I want to make sure I get the real deal.  Looks like I may try to pick up some of the IMI.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 6:35:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2003 6:37:50 PM EDT by markm]
LotBoy and I just got some RA556M855.  It's current production [green]Green[/green] Tip Mil Ammo with "WCC, Nato Cross, 02" on the Headstamp.

We haven't fired any of it yet. It's Fuhckin' expensive.  Not really worth buying.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:46:29 PM EDT
Wideners in Johnson City Tn was carrying the IMI SS109 ammo. www.wideners.com
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 4:24:41 AM EDT
Markm --

Do me a favor and look at your M855 headstamp again?

Is is WCC or W.C.C.?

Thanks!

-- Chuck
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 5:08:27 AM EDT
MisterFlinch,

When are you expecting your rifle?  I've got a buddy going out with me tomorrow, and you're more than welcome to join us.  Drop me an email if you're interested.

We could do either my club or Crittenden but as Lloyd only has 4 lanes, I'm leaning towards my club (30 lanes x 300yds).

D
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 7:28:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 7:32:14 AM EDT by markm]
Originally Posted By Chuck:
Markm --

Do me a favor and look at your M855 headstamp again?

Is is WCC or W.C.C.?

Thanks!

-- Chuck
View Quote


Will do!....

It's all at Lotboy's house.  I'll have him tell me when I can get him on the phone.  What would the difference be?

from Winchester's site:

[img]http://www.winchester.com/bullet_images/new_small_bullet_images/rifle/rotated/ra556m855.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 9:31:08 AM EDT
Wideners has IMI SS109/M855 on sale for $229/1200 case. I bought several cases. Great price for great ammo. leid
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 10:20:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chuck:
Markm --

Do me a favor and look at your M855 headstamp again?

Is is WCC or W.C.C.?

Thanks!

-- Chuck
View Quote


It reads [b]"WCC"[/b] with no periods separating the letters.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 12:35:40 PM EDT
Thanks.

WCC is Winchester domestic production.

W.C.C. is Winchester-by-IMI produced in Israel.

WCC is, of course Western Cartridge Company.

-- Chuck
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 3:49:11 PM EDT
I shot some S&B SS109 ammunition.  Very impressive.  The target was a .500" +/-.005" thick CRS plate.  The rifle was a RRA 24" varmit at a distance of 25yds.  Penetration was better than 75% (.380" +/-.010").  Has anybody ever shot through a half inch of steel?
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 10:32:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chuck:
Thanks.

WCC is Winchester domestic production.

W.C.C. is Winchester-by-IMI produced in Israel.

WCC is, of course Western Cartridge Company.

-- Chuck
View Quote


Its WCC.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 12:05:00 PM EDT
Red-Leg, I just got your invite - a little too late.  My rifle will be in soon, as will my XM193 ammo.  I'll call when it all arrives and we'll schedule some range time.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 10:10:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2003 10:13:09 PM EDT by MillerSHO]
I've came to the conclusion through exprience that as a genreal rule, you should stay away from ammo that chooses the SS109 rounds.

It's not so much the SS109 bullet as it is the third world countries that tend to use that bullet to manufacture their crappy ammo,quality wise.

I've never had any issue's with Federal's XM193 or IMI offerings of the M193 and M855.


For the record, the Igman (Bosnia made) SS109 blew my upper up in my bushy.

I'd rather you shoot wolf then some of this stuff.
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