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Posted: 3/12/2005 8:49:08 AM EDT
I am new to the site and have a bunch of (what you may call) beginner newbie questions, so bear with me here.
I have been interested in these rifles for a while now and looked at some of them at the local gunshop as well. It seems they have a lot of the bushmaster M4A3 variety. Is this a good type?
What is the difference between Colt, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, RRA, armalite, etc.....?? Just brand name? or is there any functional difference at all?

Also, are all these semiauto as well as single-shot?
What is meant by post-ban, and preban... I did some searching but couldn't quite find the answer.
With the M4, what is the typical muzzle velocity of the round?

What is the best type of ammo to use with these guns, and what is the average price?

I heard the .223 round is not much larger than a .22 bullet, however it has a much greater velocity, and is therefore more destructive. Are there any videos available on the web of an M4 shooting?

Sorry for all the newbie questions, and thanks for the reponses in advance.h.gif
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:51:02 AM EDT
I have a question for you...Have you looked in the FAQ's here on this site?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:53:23 AM EDT
I apologize. Before I posted I did numerous searches and read a bunch of threads but I didn't find the exact answers I was looking for. most of what I found was a lot of specific, technical stuff and was like a foreign language to me.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:02:01 AM EDT
read , read , and then read somemore. You can find the answers to everything you asked about in previous threads and tha tacked threads at the top, visit the ammo oracle, Welcome to the site.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:13:08 AM EDT
Most of these are answered in the FAQ and the Ammo Oracle, but since I am sitting here I will give some short answers.


Originally Posted By gopack8:
It seems they have a lot of the bushmaster M4A3 variety. Is this a good type?



Bushmaster or RRA in my opinion are the best buy for the money and a choice that you will never regret. If you want "the best" then go with a Colt or buy a LMT Upper and Lower and pin it together.


What is the difference between Colt, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, RRA, armalite, etc.....?? Just brand name? or is there any functional difference at all?


Mostly the name and the price. For quality stick with the ABC-R's (Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt, Rock River Arms) They are all rifles that I would trust in battle.


Also, are all these semiauto as well as single-shot?


Any of the previously mentioned rifles will be Semi-Automatic. You can convert them to single shot by installing a magazine block and crimping the gas tube (but why?)


What is meant by post-ban, and preban... I did some searching but couldn't quite find the answer.


This usually refers to the date of manufacture (prior or post Sept. 1994). It also reffered to the configuration of the rifle (no flashhider, bayonet lug, or collapsable stock). It dosent mean anything anymore since the AWB ban died on Sept 2004 unless your state has a local ban that is still in effect.


With the M4, what is the typical muzzle velocity of the round?


Depends on the cartridge used.


What is the best type of ammo to use with these guns, and what is the average price?


Depends on what you are using the rifle for. Hornady 75gr. TAP for defense runs about $1 a round ($20 a box). Winchester Value pack from Wal-Mart runs about $8 for 40 rounds, but I only use it for plinking. Wolf is the undisputed champion of cheap ammo, but make sure it runs in your gun before you buy a ton of it (plinking ONLY).


I heard the .223 round is not much larger than a .22 bullet, however it has a much greater velocity, and is therefore more destructive. Are there any videos available on the web of an M4 shooting?


You heard correctly. Both .22 and .223/5.56 NATO are .224 in diameter. .223 is MUCH higher velocity in standard loadings. There are numerous videos of the M4 in use in Iraq and Afganistan on the web and on this site.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:17:09 AM EDT
Where are the FAQS on this site? I can't find them.

And where are the videos on this site you are referring to? Thanks for the answers.

I look at my .22 rounds and say, "geez...those are some small bullets"..

however, they must be a lot better with a higher velocity..and they are cheap..
so is that why the military uses them?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:19:59 AM EDT
This is a short vid of an M4 firing in full auto. The guy has two mags on a connector and he switches them out really fast. The video is pretty badass, but since its full auto it probably doesnt relate to your questian that well. Oh well http://www.cmmginc.com/vids/M16_Vid_Ad.mpg
- G
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:22:36 AM EDT
On my post directly above, open a seperate window and copy that link straight to the "Address". Windows media player will open immediately.


- G
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:25:07 AM EDT
nice video...
so technically if you can pull the trigger fast enough, a semiauto would fire that fast right? hahaha

also...someone earlier in this post mentioned a gas tube? what exactly is that..and is it something that has to be replaced often?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:39:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2005 8:10:52 PM EDT by Troy]
If you remove the handguard, the barrel and gastube is exposed. The gastube connects a hole near the end of the barrel to the cycling mechanism in the chamber/bore. AR15s operate on a system where some of the gas from a bullet being fired travels back into the gas tube from the barrel and is used to cycle the next bullet into the chamber, ready to fire. Its how a bullet is chambered with a bolt-action mechanism. This is a picture of a carbine upper with the handguard removed. The smaller silver tube above the barrel is the gastube. It does not have to be replaced often or at all, or so i beleive.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/LMT%20M4%20upper%20full%20view.jpg

- G

[Edited to make picture hotlink. -Troy]
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:40:37 AM EDT
Dammit, i gotta get used to posting pictures,or even links that work. Sorry about all the copying and pasting.

- G
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:47:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gopack8:
Where are the FAQS on this site? I can't find them.

And where are the videos on this site you are referring to? Thanks for the answers.

I look at my .22 rounds and say, "geez...those are some small bullets"..

however, they must be a lot better with a higher velocity..and they are cheap..
so is that why the military uses them?



The military uses the round because of how much tissue damage a 5.56mm round inflicts. It has a lot to do with bullet design. All conial shaped bullets will pitch and yaw in soft tissue because of the center of gravity of the bullet is different in flesh than in air. And when the round is above 2600 - 2800 fps, it will also fragment and do massive damage. It's also a lot more deadly than 7.62 x 39 and other .30 caliber cartriges inside 300 meters. Most all enemy encounters fall in this range, so using a more deadly and a lot lighter round makes sense.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:50:49 AM EDT
The gas tube should not have to be replaced. Just make sure you don't bang it against anything with the handguards off.

If you had superhuman coordination and could pull the trigger at "exactly" the right moment then you could fire a semi at the same speed as a full auto.......

or you could just bump-fire it, but don't even ask about that in this thread. Bumping should only be done after you are very good with weapons handling and safety.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:56:01 AM EDT
so what is the fastest time an amateur could go through a 30 round clip with a semiauto?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:35:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gopack8:
so what is the fastest time an amateur could go through a 30 round clip with a semiauto?



first of all, if you're going to want to function at this site for long, remember, it's called a magazine, not a clip. Rifle, pistol, it doesn't matter.



this is a clip. All it does it hold ammo..




this is a magazine. It ammo and activly feeds the ammo into the chamber of the weapon.


You can probably go though one in 10 seconds.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:51:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gopack8:
so what is the fastest time an amateur could go through a 30 round clip with a semiauto?



I really wouldn't worry about that.

The point is to HIT what you are shooting at. And it BETTER be dead by the time the bolt locks back on a empty 30 round magazine.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:53:22 AM EDT
Will it shoot all the way through a cinder block? My single-shot bolt action .22 rifle will only make aboout a 1-2 inch indention into a cinder block....

And what about a 2x4 piece of wood? The .22 I have will go clean through the wood.

Both of these were shot at a distance of about 20-30 feet.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 11:18:53 AM EDT
I am also a newbie where, but I must ask; where do you live? Someone could easily answer a lot of your questions just by meeting with you sometime and taking you out to shoot. Yes, the 5.56x45 would destroy a cinder block easily. I would try shooting from more like 50 or 100 yards though, so the danger of shrapnel would be of less significance. For the 2x4 you should lay that down and shoot the threw the length of it to see what happens.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 11:21:43 AM EDT
yeah good idea...
should the .22 i have destroy a cinder block? or is the 1-2 inch indention normal for a .22 caliber rifle
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 4:32:43 PM EDT
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=163620--comparision chart; mostly it's based on the name and logo

stick with A,B,C,R--BUSHMASTER

most are semi-auto
preban, post-ban, simply means before/after the ban, which died last year

muzzle velocity depends upon the ammo and the barrel length and how far the bullet if from the muzzle--expect around ~3100 FPS from 20in bbl at muzzle w/ 55 grain 5.56

.223 is a .22 diameter (roughly); destructiveness is based on mostly on velocity (16in or 20in bbl for best results and full power 5.56 ammo for best results)

www.ammo-oracle.com

welcome to the site! read around the site for lots of info.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 4:56:34 PM EDT
If you are anywhere near Southern Indiana let me know.

I have a HBAR Varmint AR and a M4 with some goodies. I would be more than happy to demonstrate the basics to you.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:27:41 PM EDT
I just bought the Rock River Arms Entry tactical for $925 at a WI gun show.I'm happy! I liked the feel of the houge rubber grip and the fact that the FBI and DEA bought RRA! If its good enough for them,its good enough for me!
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:38:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:11:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:46:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2005 9:47:28 PM EDT by Necronius]
You seem to be equating the caliber of a round with its power, which is a common mistake made by those who are not firmiliar with firearms. When most people hear .22 caliber, they immediately assume you're talking about the .22 Long Rifle. The .223 Remington (5.56mm NATO) round fires the same diameter bullet as the .22 longrifle, but as the casing is much larger, and the round is a Centerfire round as opposed to a rimfire, the velocity and energy is much greater.

Here is a comparison of the rounds (.223 with 55gr bullet vs .22lr with .40gr bullet):

.223 VS .22LR
----------------
Muzzle Velocity: 3500f ps vs 1260 FPS
Muzzle Energy: 1088 ft/lbs vs 130 ft/lbs

100yd Velocity: 2606 fps vs 1023 fps
100yd Energy: 603 ft/lbs vs 93 ft/lbs

As you can see, just because a round is .22 caliber doesnt mean it lacks power. I have won alot of bets with people by telling them that I own a .22 that can make a groundhog explode at over 300 yds. they immediately assume im talking about the longrifle, and tell me that there is no way. Little do they know I am talking about a .220 Swift with a 34" barrel. It fires a 40gr bullet at almost 4300 fps with nearly 1600 ft/lbs of energy.

The bottom line is, the .223 is quite a bit "Larger" than the .22lr, even though they fire the same diameter bullet.

Hope this helps
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 5:24:50 AM EDT
^that really clears it up. Thanks!
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:45:32 AM EDT
so does anyone here have a bushmaster m4a3? How do you like it?
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:08:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:08:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 9:09:48 AM EDT by Hank_Rearden1]

Originally Posted By gopack8:
so does anyone here have a bushmaster m4a3? How do you like it?




Many here do. And, Many here like it.

Here is mine, along with it's longer brother, a 20" in SPR clone style configuration. Note, mine aren't all that stock either!



Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:12:56 AM EDT
so what's a good size? the most popular size (it seems from what i have read and seen) is the 16" variety...

I think the local store had a brand new one for around 800....does that seem right?
also, what is the cocking mechanism on these..is it on top or on the side?
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:36:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 9:37:20 AM EDT by Hank_Rearden1]

Originally Posted By gopack8:
so what's a good size? the most popular size (it seems from what i have read and seen) is the 16" variety...

I think the local store had a brand new one for around 800....does that seem right?
also, what is the cocking mechanism on these..is it on top or on the side?



Size depends on application...

The shortest barrel length one can get without going through the NFA registration process is 14.5" with a permanantly attached 1.5" flashsuppressor or other muzzel device (like mine, pictured above). Many folks here get a 16" barrel because it allows for more versitility (i.e. no need to permantly attach a muzzel device, one may swap between various type of suppressors and compensators). The shorter barrel and collapsable stock configuration offers great manuverabiity and little wieght.

A 24", 20" barrel or 18" barrel deliver higher velocity and accuracy for longer ranges... typcially one will mount a high powered zoom optic on these and a bipod. Many here also use collapsable stocks on these... although not pictured above, I have a LMT collapsable stock on my 20".
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:45:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 9:51:50 AM EDT by Dawg180]

Originally Posted By gopack8:
so what's a good size? the most popular size (it seems from what i have read and seen) is the 16" variety...

I think the local store had a brand new one for around 800....does that seem right?
also, what is the cocking mechanism on these..is it on top or on the side?



16" M4 style rifles wiht the "flat top" receiver and a bunch of dohickies hanging off them (flashlights, red dot sights, etc.) are the "in vogue" ones right now.

A few years ago the M16A2 style ones (20" barrel with a Carry handle) were all the rage.

$800 for a Bushmaster brand M4 is a pretty good deal, especially if it is a "no ban" meaning that the stock collapses, it has a flash hider, and has a bayonet lug.

Basically the two most common barrel lengths are 20" and 16", with 16" rifles usually having a collapsible stock. The advantage to a 20" is that you have a longer sight radius and more veolicty on the round, plus it will mount a bayonet properly. The advantage to the 16" is it is more compact, lighter, and if it has an collapsible stock you can adjust the length of pull for a better fit. 16" rifles will mount a bayonet, but not properly (the are real loose and flop around a bit)

The other big decision is the A2 "carry handle" style vs. the A3 "flat top" version. Most people go with the A3 style as it is much better for mounting optics, and you can always get a bolt-on carry handle. The only downside is that you have to buy the carry handle or rear iron sight, and it usually means another $80-100 cost on the initial rifle.

The "cocking mechanism" is actually called the "charging handle" but we'll cut you some slack since your new. It is a T shaped handle just above the base of the stock.

And I recommend that you find someone locally who has one and have them show you how it works and let you fire one. There is only so much you can explain over the internet, hands on will answer most of your questions much quicker. What state are you located in? There are members EVERYWHERE who would be more than willing to show you their rifles and explain the fundamentals.

Dawg

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