Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 11/21/2005 11:28:29 AM EDT
Folks,

Y'all got a great forum here, I've learned a lot just lurking. As a Reservist, I don't get enough trigger time so I'm hoping to build something just as inaccurate as my issue weapon. My brother has graciously given me a pistol registered Stag Arms lower, so I should be able to afford the rest:

20" chrome lined bbl w/out M203 cutouts
fixed stock
integral carry handle (the only part I'm equivocating about...)

Gig 'em,

PO2 backbencher USNR

Link Posted: 11/21/2005 12:15:37 PM EDT
i have never seen a 20" bbl with m203 profile, have pics of that?
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 3:25:52 AM EDT
Your planning on putting a stock on your lower?
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 9:00:32 AM EDT
eklik,

Nope, no pics. I understand M-16 A2/A3's w/ the M203 grenade launcher attached have cuts on the exterior of the bbl so the M203 can attach - the M203 was designed to attach to a M-16A1 bbl, which has a thinner profile. I could be quite wrong in my understanding.

Sailor,

Yep, was planning on attaching a standard shoulder stock to the lower, & a 20" bbl to the upper. As I understand Federal law, you can add a shoulder stock to a pistol if the bbl is 16" or longer & the overall length is 26.5"+. You can't go the other way w/out a $200 tax, background check & approval from your local law enforcement. Let me know if you have links that indicate differently.

Gig 'em,

backbencher
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 9:05:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2005 9:06:59 AM EDT by Stryfe]

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
i have never seen a 20" bbl with m203 profile, have pics of that?


Government profile bbl can take the M203.
HBAR cannot.
I expect that this is what he means.
On a 20" bbl there is enough length before the FSB to attach the 203. On an M4 there isn't, so an extra cut needs to be made in front of the FSB for the bbl clamp.

backbencher Are you issued and M16A3?
If so, may I ask what you do?
The subject pops up from time to time, and I've yet to hear an answer straight from the horses mouth. So to speak.
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 9:54:45 AM EDT
Stryfe,

Yep, have heard different answers as to what a government profile bbl is. My understanding is the A2/A3 bbl is so much thicker than the A1 bbl there is a cut in the rear for the M203 mount. Yet our A3 bbls are uninterupted, but I've not seen the bbl w/ the M203 mounts. I've also heard that new build M203s have interchangeable mounts for different bbls.

My unit is issued A3's. I have qualified w/ one, but I need more trigger time to get a letter on my ribbon. Trigger time is difficult to come by in the Reserves until you're close to deployment, & I don't want to wait that long. Thanks for the answers & the curiosity.

Gig 'em,

PO2 backbencher USNR
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 10:06:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2005 10:12:22 AM EDT by Stryfe]

Originally Posted By backbencher:
Stryfe,

Yep, have heard different answers as to what a government profile bbl is. My understanding is the A2/A3 bbl is so much thicker than the A1 bbl there is a cut in the rear for the M203 mount. Yet our A3 bbls are uninterupted, but I've not seen the bbl w/ the M203 mounts.
PO2 backbencher USNR


Is the area under the handguards the same diameter as the area in front of the FSB?

On an A2 profile bbl, the area under the handguards is turned down to a smaller diameter than the area in front of the FSB.
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 10:35:51 AM EDT
Stryfe,

The short answer? I don't know. When we clean 'em, we don't take the handguards off, so I'm relying on what my GM's tell me. I'll have to do 'em another favour next drill.

So maybe I need to buy a "government profile" bbl to practice w/ the inaccuracy I'm issued. Hmm.

You're most helpful. Thanks very much for the pic.

Gig 'em,

backbencher
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 11:12:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By backbencher:
So maybe I need to buy a "government profile" bbl to practice w/ the inaccuracy I'm issued. Hmm.


That's what I'd do.
I'd stick with the same upper as you are issued as well.
You can always swap later if ya want, and you're gonna end up building another rifle anyway.


You're most helpful. Thanks very much for the pic.

Gig 'em,

backbencher


Welcome Aboard.
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 12:05:51 PM EDT
Stryfe,

Shukrun for the warm welcome. The only thing I'm dithering on is the fixed carrying handle. I was thinking I could get away w/ a flattop & a removable carry handle, then use small screws to lock it in instead of the large knobs. Then if I wanted to build an M-4 clone later...

Sure I'll build another rifle later, but AFTER deployment when I have real money.

Gig 'em,

backbencher
Link Posted: 11/23/2005 4:40:53 PM EDT
M16 A2 does not have different barrels for M203 mounting, as stated before, to get as close to "as issued" as possible, go with a 20" gov't profile barrel 1 in 7 twist 5.56mm chambering. The info on the M4 is also correct, as the FSB is closer to the receiver it requires the cutout in the barrel in order to mount the M203.
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 1:01:33 PM EDT
hickman,

Thanks for the info on the A2. I'm trying to build a semi-auto copy of an A3. Any links as to bbl profile on A3's? My GM's are telling me it's a straight tube w/ no taper all the way from the breech, if I'm understanding them correctly. I've not yet seen one of ours w/ the handguards off.

Gig 'em,

backbencher
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 1:31:09 PM EDT
We need to ask what your version of the A3 is to get an answer for you. Accuracy isn't going to be an issue with any of the barrels. Modern barrels tend to shoot much better than their owners are capable of shooting.

If you want a flattop, get it. If you want a A2, get that.

If it were me making the build, I would get the flattop and use the carry handle just to keep my options open in the future. You can leave the thumbscrews on, and when done correctly, they don't come off.
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 2:17:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2005 2:18:33 PM EDT by scottryan]

Originally Posted By backbencher:


My unit is issued A3's. I have qualified w/ one, but I need more trigger time to get a letter on my ribbon. Trigger time is difficult to come by in the Reserves until you're close to deployment, & I don't want to wait that long. Thanks for the answers & the curiosity.

Gig 'em,

PO2 backbencher USNR




The M16A3 is identical to the M16A2 except the A3 is semi-full instead of semi-burst.

The M16A3 and M16A2 use the same barrel.
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 2:20:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2005 2:21:08 PM EDT by scottryan]
He is in the Navy and looking to build a M16A3, not M16A4. I think some in this thread are confused about the A3 and A4 designation.

The Navy uses a decent amount of M16A3s.

He is not wanting to build a flattop (M16A4).
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 2:20:57 PM EDT
Stickman,

Thanks for the response. Ah ha, there are variants of the M16A3. The one I cleaned was made by FN, if that helps. It'll be another month before I can ask to see one w/out the handguards off.

I'm quite tempted by a flattop & a carry handle held on by flush screws than the thumbscrews.

Gig 'em,

backbencher
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 2:23:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By backbencher:
Stickman,

Thanks for the response. Ah ha, there are variants of the M16A3. The one I cleaned was made by FN, if that helps. It'll be another month before I can ask to see one w/out the handguards off.

I'm quite tempted by a flattop & a carry handle held on by flush screws than the thumbscrews.
Gig 'em,

backbencher



Red:

I dont know how you can make this happen. The threaed shafts in a carry handle are semi-permanently attached.
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 2:45:43 PM EDT
"to practice w/ the inaccuracy I'm issued"

What the heck does that mean? inaccuracy your issued?

Honestly...i don't think it much matters what "exact" kind of upper you build to practice with. The principals are the same regardless. I can shoot expert with a M4 or an A2 or an A1...they will all do the job. Just practice.....

What is the max distance you guys shoot at? (Just curious...)
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 5:04:55 PM EDT
scottryan,

Thanks for the info. I'm guessing the thumbscrews have flattened bottoms I could perhaps Dremel off, but it's already sounding too complex. Fixed carry handle it will be, most likely.

Whitesmoke,

Inaccuracy I'm issued refers to the lack of HBAR, free float, and ammo more inaccurate than what preceeded it. I can't shoot expert yet, & I want something to practice w/ that will get me there. There's not much trigger time in the Reserves. So far, I've qualified @ 25 m. Thanks to everyone for their replies - Happy Thanksgiving.

Gig 'em,

backbencher
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 6:36:45 AM EDT
scottryan,

Thanks for the explanation about the thumbscrew shafts. I looked @ several removable handles this weekend, & while I can't make things flush, I could Dremel the shafts down & put much smaller nuts on the bolts. Lowers the value of the handle; then I have a flattop upper, more valuable than a standard upper, w/ a lower value handle. Probably cheaper in the long run to just buy the standard upper now, & if I need a flattop in the future, buy the upper & sell my existing one.

A-1 Sales is nearly local to me, & comes to the shows, but I don't see that they have any 1 in 7" bbls. Attractive prices, though. Saw several nicely priced Colt uppers this weekend, none w/ bayonet lugs, however.

Also learned the difference between the standard hole & large hole Colt lugs - the standard forward hole is the same size as the rear hole.

Gig 'em,

backbencher
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 12:47:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By backbencher:
Also learned the difference between the standard hole & large hole Colt lugs - the standard forward hole is the same size as the rear hole.

Gig 'em,

backbencher


Buncha goodies, along the same lines, at biggerhammer too.

The Maryland AR15 Shooters Site is a good one to have too.

Both are run by people active in this board and are a good quick resource.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 1:52:18 PM EDT
Well, today I picked up a used upper & a 20" fluted bbl. Both are stripped, as the previous owner took off all he could to build an M-16/M-16A1 copy. I even have to buy the windage adjustment knob :| Think I got a decent deal, if it's too much hassle I can always give to my brother for an xmas present & let him chase parts :) Or since I've a pistol lower, I could hack off the bbl behind the gas port & have a manual repeater until I order a gov't profile. Probably too nice a bbl to do that though.

It's always a dangerous thing to walk into a gun store w/ cash in your pocket.

Gig 'em,

backbencher
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:52:55 PM EDT
Got my lower parts kit today! Got the usual rigamarole about once I build it into a rifle after building it into a pistol, I'll never be able to build it into a pistol again. Uh-huh - like what do the T/C shooters w/ carbine stocks do all day, every day? After they put on that shoulder stock, they throw away their five 12" $200 bbls?

But they will sell me a whippet thin 16" bbl w/ no gas port, will have to special order it.

An AR-15 uppper & lower look pretty silly w/ a huge long buffer tube sticking out the back w/out a bbl.

Gig 'em,

backbencher

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:38:10 PM EDT
Got it together, even though I broke off a drill bit in the safety selector detent hole - oops! Evidently the Model 1 Sales selector detent is larger than the hole Stag Arms drills in the receiver. Banged it through w/ a tap, then tried to drill out the hole w/ a wood drill bit. Got it WELL stuck - probably didn't help that I thought hammering it in might help - then broke it off when I got out Da's power drill. Tapped out again, drilled just a bit more w/ the broken bit, now the safety works - but a bit stiff. Owe Da one drill bit.

The takedown detent & spring won't go in 'til I get a stock, couple months from now. The pivot detent shot across the room so many times I don't even want to think about it. Razor blades, possibly, or gun show smith. So I'll live w/out that as well for the time being. Scratched up the right side in a couple places trying to use a straight pin as a spring retainer.

Barrel is on the way, apparently a used 24" bull, heavier than I was looking for but for $45 I can deal w/ it.

Gig 'em,

backbencher
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:47:28 PM EDT
Gawd, sounds like my first build.
Though I got my detent out easier.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:03:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By backbencher:


Barrel is on the way, apparently a used 24" bull, heavier than I was looking for but for $45 I can deal w/ it.

Gig 'em,

backbencher



Bull barrel or heavy barrel?
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:21:01 AM EDT
Stickman,

As I remember the email on my laptop, it's a 24" Bushmaster H-BAR. Used, and presumably no longer capable of 24" H-BAR accuracy. Should be able to post definitively tomorrow night once it arrives. I'm afraid the gas port will become a one hole compensator - hopefully it's drilled straight up!

Gig 'em,

backbencher
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:00:07 AM EDT
Why not have that pig cut and threaded for 20"?
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 12:55:09 PM EDT
Stickman,

B/c my 20" is gonna be a gov't profile. This whole straight-pull bolt action pistol is a legal stopover before I build a replica of the inaccuracy I'm issued w/ :) If I just wanted a nice 20", I wouldn't have given my brother the used fluted 20" for xmas I got w/ my upper. And a HBAR is gonna be heavy enough @ 16" for a pistol, let alone a 20". Picky, ain't I?

Anyone want to swap a 16" or pistol bbl for a used 24" Bushie HBAR? Speak up, or it's hacksaw time Thursday night :)

Gig 'em,

backbencher
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:16:13 AM EDT
Well, the pistol is complete. Shot it yesterday, still have my eyesight despite gas shooting from the dissy gas port. Managed to swap the 24" for a 16" DPMS dissy HBAR, w/ gas block removed. Even got it sighted it. Several FTF, don't know if I'm not letting the charging handle go fast enough, or if things are just stiff. Will post pics once I figure out which pic hosting service to go w/. ARF seems a bit high.

Gig 'em,

backbencher
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:37:38 PM EDT
Behold, the cheapest AR pistol yet seen:

Gift Stag virgin lower ($20 certificate of virginity)
Unknown used upper, w/ 20" fluted bbl given to brother for xmas, $120
$59 Model 1 Sales parts kit & $24 buffer tube (crap trigger)
$200 M-16 bolt, new (think that was high)
$45 used 24" bbl off the EE swapped for 16" used bbl off the EE ($10 postage)
$9 used LE 30rnd mag

And now, the pics:



My 8" rifled muzzle brake port/former dissy gas port



A very very short freefloat tube : )



The FSB on the dissy bbl - which has a port for a gas tube on the back, but not on the inside:



Gig 'em,

backbencher
Top Top