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Posted: 10/12/2004 8:58:02 AM EST
I have been shooting an M-1 in NRA service rifle competition for about one year. I totally suck at it but would like to get better. I am considering one of the many "CMP" equipped AR-15" models on the market, but would like some help before I plunk down that much jack.

The only range I will shoot at for the forseeable future has a 200 yard limit, so we have to shoot reduced targets to simulate longer yardages. That being the case, is the ability to shoot heavier, more expensive bullets out of a 1-8" heavy barrel crucial? Would a 1-9" chrome lined be ok? One of the interesting things about the AR-15 is the availability of inexpensive factory ammo. I can buy some 55 gr. ammo for less than I'm spending for components to reload 30 cal. Will the 1-8" shoot the "cheap" ammo or does it need heavier bullets?

In short, do you guys recommend a 20", heavy barrel, FF tube, with a match trigger, for a newbie, or some cheaper configuration with $$ left over for practice ammo? Sorry for the long post, but funds are limited. The more expensive rifle will require that I (gasp!) sell a firearm to appease SWMBO.
Thanks!
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 9:05:40 AM EST
i would look into a good school or get some help shooting the rifle you have.
once you exceed the rifle then... buy a new one.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 9:35:09 AM EST
I always recommend the Bushmaster DCM setup as you can buy them at a discount through your DCM affiliated club. There are even 'upgrades' available. That being said the Olympic Arms and DPMS DCM rifle's I've shot had excellent triggers and shot VERY VERY well

Most of factory DCM models come with a freefloated barrel and some kind of match trigger, so I'd focus on what kind of deal you can get.

Also check to see of your local clubs has a DCM shooting class. Our club runs a really nice course here in MD with some of the state champs acting as coaches and instructors.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 9:36:15 AM EST
You'd want a 1/8 or 1/7 twist.

You'd want to shoot match grade ammo, probably 68-69 grain at that distance. You would not need to worry about going higher than that in bullet weight. In the future, when you move to true 600 yard shooting - you'd want to consider 77 or 80 grain bullets, which help deal with wind problems at long range.

55/62 grain bullets blow around like pebbles.

You'd want a full 20" HB and a free floating tube. The match trigger is negotiable.
The non-floating tubes totally throw your impact off when you start torquing down hard on the sling in sitting and prone.

Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:01:06 AM EST
Rock River Arms NM or Armalite. The RRA NM is very hard to beat for the money. The bushmasters have trouble with the triggers, DPMS have mushy sights.

If you buy a RRA NM you will have a rifle that can take you to master. Buying anything but would be a waste, because you'll always doubt your rifle. AND if you get serious you'll eventually buy a match tuned rifle anyhow, making a lesser rifle a waste of time and money.

The RRA NM has a 20" stainless steel barrel with a 1:8 twist, and you should get a rifle with something similar. Tor two hundred yards 68 or 69gr bullets are as good as it gets. You should seriously consider reloading, and don't bother shooting "cheap" amm, because it's not really cheap.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:09:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 10:10:10 AM EST by Dave_A]
Look at most of the DCM guns, there are some pretty standard features:

20" Stainless Steel or Chrome Moly HBAR barrel - NOT chrome lined. 1/7 twist is DEFINATELY preferred (on ANY AR, not just CMP), unless you want to shoot sub-55gr ammo. For match use, 68gr is pretty much 'the minimum'....

'Match' trigger, 4.5LB weight

'Match' A2 sights (1/4 MOA Windage, 1/2 MOA Elevation or 1/4 MOA all-around)

CMP-legal (under-A2-handguard) Free Float dube

You will, of course, need a full-A2 upper and A2-length stock if you're looking at service rifle. A4 setups are technically allowed, but they must be used with the carry handle sights, and handle-sights don't have a big enough elevation adjustment range. Telestocks, rail systems, and such are not allowed, period.

Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:32:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 10:36:42 AM EST by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By mr_smashy:
Rock River Arms NM or Armalite. The RRA NM is very hard to beat for the money. The bushmasters have trouble with the triggers, DPMS have mushy sights.

If you buy a RRA NM you will have a rifle that can take you to master. Buying anything but would be a waste, because you'll always doubt your rifle. AND if you get serious you'll eventually buy a match tuned rifle anyhow, making a lesser rifle a waste of time and money.

The RRA NM has a 20" stainless steel barrel with a 1:8 twist, and you should get a rifle with something similar. Tor two hundred yards 68 or 69gr bullets are as good as it gets. You should seriously consider reloading, and don't bother shooting "cheap" amm, because it's not really cheap.



+1. Couldn't have said it better myself.

On second thought, if you go to Battlerifles.com you will find plenty of help and advice on DIY M1 accurizing that can be done on the relative cheap.

Rather than buying an unsuitable AR because you can't swing the $850 to $900 that a Rock River NM will cost, spend $200 to $300 accurizing the M1, and reload for it.

At 200 yards you should be able to work up some low recoil loads with Sierra or Hornady 150 grain HPBT match bullets. The only significant mod the M1 will need are NM sights (1/2 MOA elevation and windage), as the GI sights are a rather crude 1 MOA both ways.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:58:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
On second thought, if you go to Battlerifles.com you will find plenty of help and advice on DIY M1 accurizing that can be done on the relative cheap.


That will never shoot as well as the AR, and the ammo costs more...
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 11:11:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By tarheelshooter:
I have been shooting an M-1 in NRA service rifle competition for about one year. I totally suck at it but would like to get better. I am considering one of the many "CMP" equipped AR-15" models on the market, but would like some help before I plunk down that much jack.

The only range I will shoot at for the forseeable future has a 200 yard limit, so we have to shoot reduced targets to simulate longer yardages. That being the case, is the ability to shoot heavier, more expensive bullets out of a 1-8" heavy barrel crucial? Would a 1-9" chrome lined be ok? One of the interesting things about the AR-15 is the availability of inexpensive factory ammo. I can buy some 55 gr. ammo for less than I'm spending for components to reload 30 cal. Will the 1-8" shoot the "cheap" ammo or does it need heavier bullets?

In short, do you guys recommend a 20", heavy barrel, FF tube, with a match trigger, for a newbie, or some cheaper configuration with $$ left over for practice ammo? Sorry for the long post, but funds are limited. The more expensive rifle will require that I (gasp!) sell a firearm to appease SWMBO.
Thanks!



I'd recommend an Armalite National Match model, as it is what I shoot. It has taken me to Master within one season and I fully expect to be knocking at the door of High Master in the next couple of seasons. Someday, when I am out of college and have a real job, I want to buy a Rock River as a spare. Before then I am going to have this AR rebarreled and have the rear sight pinned and switched to a straight 1/2-MOA by 1/2 MOA. The 1/4-MOA windage is OK, but a little vague and I prefer to keep track of smaller numbers of clicks. (Plus, I just can't really think of a situation where I've ever been satisfied with taking "just one more click" of wind.)

Anyway, save your $$ until you can swing a rifle with a 1:8 or 1:7 twist barrel, free-float tube, 4.5# trigger, etc. You'll appreciate it once you start shooting to 600 yards.

Oh yeah, and look into reloading. I've fired about 2000-2500 rounds through my AR this year and 95% have been "match" loads with 77 and 80gr bullets. Try doing that without reloading, no matter your budget.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 11:24:23 AM EST
Thanks folks,
I do reload for the M-1 and a 6.5 x 55 Swede, but hoped to be able to at least practice with some cheap 55 gr. Seems like the concensus is to wait till I can afford the "CMP" equipped rifle if I go to .223. The real problem is in order to buy another rifle, I have to plan on roughly the same amount spent at the jewelry store!
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 11:38:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 11:42:33 AM EST by mr_smashy]

Originally Posted By tarheelshooter:
Thanks folks,
I do reload for the M-1 and a 6.5 x 55 Swede, but hoped to be able to at least practice with some cheap 55 gr. Seems like the concensus is to wait till I can afford the "CMP" equipped rifle if I go to .223. The real problem is in order to buy another rifle, I have to plan on roughly the same amount spent at the jewelry store!



Shooting cheap 55gr. is not effective practice. You need to do everything in practice the same as a match. If you want cheap practice, dry fire your rifle at home. you'll get more out of it, and you can do it any time you want. Wearing your nice barrel out with cheap amm makes it less cheap. AND you'll just get frusterated, and your sight settings won't be the same as your 'good' amm. Put a black thumbtack on the wall and get your offhand on for as long as you can stand it.

Warren
www.highpowerforum.com
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 5:08:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
On second thought, if you go to Battlerifles.com you will find plenty of help and advice on DIY M1 accurizing that can be done on the relative cheap.


That will never shoot as well as the AR, and the ammo costs more...





National Match Armory

They may not be as cheap as an AR in accuracy/$ spent, but a well built M1 WILL kick ass.

So the ammo costs more. Who's counting after all the shit one has to pay to play in Highpower?
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