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Posted: 10/4/2004 3:47:48 AM EST
Hi..I'm new to this forum (been searchin around the last few days). I am very interested in getting an AR (M-16 rather than M-4). Mostly I want the rifle to target shoot with and generally just get familiar (I am in Army ROTC....would prefer an M-16A2 style as that is what we qualify with).

I have gathered from most people that the best brand to go with is probably Bushmaster (don't flame me I'm sure the others are wonderful ;))and I saw one that I thought would be nice rifle at a gun store the other day. It was an XM-15E2 20" for 820$. Is this a good price?

What should I look for when I buy the gun? He said that it was not used and it looked new but I have read many "horror" stories about people getting defective used guns from a dealer and stuff like that...

Are the semi-automatic rifles nearly identical to the military versions when taken apart or are there major differences (obvious visual)?

I had a whole bunch more questions but it's early and I'm not thinking right now...thanks for the help.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:04:03 AM EST
Hi Nate!

Where in Ohio are you? Just curious. I can only speak for Bushmaster rifles as those are the only ones I've owned. I'm very happy with their quality and have never ad any problems with mine.

The "M" designator is generally only for the military weapons with full-auto and select-fire trigger groups. You'll be looking at AR-15s as civilian rifles. The differences between the military and the civi models are few. Military rifles have semi/full-auto or semi/3 round burst trigger groups in them. Civvies are semi auto only. Other than that, they are for the most part identical. I have no doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong :)

Without knowing which model of Bushy you're looking at, it's hard to tell if you were quoted a good price. More info?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:24:08 AM EST
I didn't pay as much attention as I would have liked to, I will check again the next time I go there to see the exact model... I just saw the "XM-15E2" on it and I decided...surely that is enough information...not knowing at the time that many, many ARs have that designation..lol....

I know that it was the A2 style with the fixed carry handle...I saw 2 rifles that could be it on Bushmaster's website. If you go to THIS site, the gun is either the 20in rifle near the top that says "new" next to it or the one near the bottom (A2)...I think it is the one near the top but I can't be positive without seeing it again (only difference is at the end of the barrel, I will assume that the "new" one is the no-ban version) the suggested retail price for both is 995$.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:25:13 AM EST
Oh, and I live near Dayton, OH
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:29:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By natedogg42:
the other day. It was an XM-15E2 20" for 820$. Is this a good price?


Not a bad price, but be forewarned - that rifle most likely has a heavy barrel - meaning it will weight 1lb more than your standard M16A2 rifle barrel.

You can have the shop order a rifle with the proper barrel - or for $60 or so ADCO (also in OH IIRC) will contour the barrel to M16A2 specificiation (you will be surprised how the Heavy barrel effect handling).


Are the semi-automatic rifles nearly identical to the military versions when taken apart or are there major differences (obvious visual)?


Take down is identical - you'll notice the lower parts are a bit different (and you'll be missing the auto sear) - but for a field strip the rifle is identical.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:31:03 AM EST
Well, I'd say that that's about the going rate at local shops. The area makes a difference as does the demand. Bushmasters (I hear) are a little more pricy than some of the others but they are still competitive. From my experience, they also have excellent customer service.

I got a "Shorty AK" a few (7?!) years back that was about that much. The new M4A3 I've got on order is slightly higher but the MSRP is higher on that one too.

Definitely sounds in the ballpark to me. 20" barrel or better is definitely the way to go for target shooting. If you get serious you can really tweak it out but it's no slouch out of the box either.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:51:40 AM EST
I thought the price looked alright, there aren't that many places around here that I know of...the only other place that is a decent size has tried to sell me a beat up SKS for ~300$...which was rediculous because even I could have bought it online if I got a C&R license for just under 100$...

Are all civilian barrels heavier than their military counterparts or is the Bushmaster? I don't really want the gun to be close to what the M-16A2 is like firing (in semi auto) but I don't really want to have a gun ordered or anything (I NEED IT NOW!!)How
Thanks for all the replies
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 7:14:29 AM EST
Hey Nate, try aimsurplus. They are based out of Middletown, just South of Dayton. I ordered my Bushmaster M4A3 from them for 809.00...You can drive down and pick it up! www.aimsurplus.com
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 7:21:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:00:45 AM EST
That's awesome Hawker, I thought all of those places required shipping...many say "No pickups"...I read into it and I can...sweet!

27 minutes away, 15 miles....wow, the gun store was 45 minutes away he
I sent an email to AIM but who knows when it will be returned.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:52:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By natedogg42:
Are all civilian barrels heavier than their military counterparts or is the Bushmaster?


It's all civilian barrels as they are cheaper to make. As far as I know Bushmaster is the only manufacturer to offer the A2 barrel at all in their civilian line. Though some of the kit companies are now starting to offer it.



How often should the AR be cleaned?


It's best to do it after each range session. Though obviously it can go longer if needed.

would that damage the gun if it were to go that long without cleaning (not repairable, i.e. new parts)? (I wouldn't torture it like that but out of curiousity)...[/qutoe]
No it doesn't really damage the gun - it may make it less than optimally reliable if should NEED to use the firearm. The only time you can really damage the gun by NOT cleaning it is if you're using corrosive primers (not an issue with the AR) or you were in a damp/wet environment (rust could form).
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