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9/17/2020 5:59:48 PM
Posted: 10/15/2013 3:53:28 PM EDT
I'm looking into getting an AR, hopefully I'll be in one by the end of the year. But I can't decide how I want to go about doing it.

I can get a deal on a new bushmaster patrolman a3 for $850+tax. This would be the easier option.

I can build one using a TM lower, palmetto lower kit including the BCG and CH, and a blackthorne upper with chrome lined barrel. Which would put me in the game at about $675 plus shipping on the parts.

I'm really leaning towards the bushmaster from the reviews I've read, but that's about $200 more than if I build it. I know cheap parts=cheap gun, but from the reviews I've read on all the parts, they're decent.

Has anyone used any of the manufacturers above? Any good/bad experiences? This is going to be just a range/plinker, not into competitions or anything like that.
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 4:00:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2013 4:01:40 PM EDT by hotbiggun42]
My opinion get a complete lower from Rainier Arms with a IMOD stock for $385 and a DD barelled upper with M16 BCG from PK firearms for $590 and have one hell of a carbine.
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 4:23:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2013 4:26:14 PM EDT by sanausnol]
I would just use this kit from PSA and for $100 more you could get a lower which is all that would be required: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/rifle-kits/16-m4-cmv-chrome-lined-premium-rifle-kit.html

That would put at around $675-$700 after shipping and transfer fees.

ETA:

Just saw this kit which is an even better deal as it includes the Geissele SSA trigger group, Magpul furniture and CHF barrel for only $150 more: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/rifle-kits/psa-16-chf-m4a1-moe-ssa-rifle-kit.html
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 6:05:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2013 6:05:51 PM EDT by TaylorWSO]


Originally Posted By jsinar:
I can build one using a TM lower, palmetto lower kit including the BCG and CH, and a blackthorne upper with chrome lined barrel.





View Quote
I recommend you read more and buy a quality complete firearm.



ETA make sure to get a gas mask to go with the rifle if you build though





 
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 6:16:56 PM EDT
You can buy a good rifle or carbine for anywhere from 900 bucks to 1400....to build one you need about 800 dollars in parts and another 300 dollars in tools....



Just buy one.
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 6:51:56 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By desertmoon:
You can buy a good rifle or carbine for anywhere from 900 bucks to 1400....to build one you need about 800 dollars in parts and another 300 dollars in tools....

Just buy one.
View Quote


300 dollars in tools?  I think I have maybe $100 in tools that I have used to build 10+ rifles with.
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 7:02:09 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sanausnol:


300 dollars in tools?  I think I have maybe $100 in tools that I have used to build 10+ rifles with.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sanausnol:
Originally Posted By desertmoon:
You can buy a good rifle or carbine for anywhere from 900 bucks to 1400....to build one you need about 800 dollars in parts and another 300 dollars in tools....

Just buy one.


300 dollars in tools?  I think I have maybe $100 in tools that I have used to build 10+ rifles with.


This...buy the parts to build the rifle and configuration that suits you.  Buy the tools that will build 100 more.  Just research the quality parts to buy.  And I do mean RESEARCH.  You are in the right place.
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 7:34:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2013 7:35:30 PM EDT by jsinar]
What about the cmmg rifles? Good price, and I've read good reviews on them. I can get this one for 659+tax

http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/55ae160.htm
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 3:42:13 AM EDT
CMMG had a bad run of customer service awhile back, but I have one of their barrels and have never had an issue with it.

$659 is a pretty good deal.
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 4:47:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2013 6:42:55 AM EDT by GenoDinah]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jsinar:
What about the cmmg rifles? Good price, and I've read good reviews on them. I can get this one for 659+tax
http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/55ae160.htm
View Quote

1/9 barrel will work fine, however I would choose a 1/7 twist barrel.  YMMV

ETA:  If you are not familiar with the AR platform, it might just as well be better to purchase a complete rifle.  Once you learn the ins and outs of it, then perhaps you could build your own + tools.  If you already know how to put it together, then I would build my own using parts I know where they came from and the different options I have to choose from.
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 5:12:50 AM EDT
If your buying a complete upper you only need to spend maybe $30 for tools to build a lower. All you need is a set of punches, and a small hammer.
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 5:31:16 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
My opinion get a complete lower from Rainier Arms with a IMOD stock for $385 and a DD barelled upper with M16 BCG from PK firearms for $590 and have one hell of a carbine.
View Quote

Link Posted: 10/16/2013 6:20:43 AM EDT
I built my first one with minimal tools and with 95% spikes tactical parts. I have to say that I am very proud of my rifle especially since I built it myself and it actually works! I bet I overpaid a bit since I built it a little pre and post sandy hook. That PSA deal without the lower receiver, MOE stock and Gessele trigger seems like a great deal, I would buy that.
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 6:49:13 AM EDT
i'd get the $699 it from PSA like the others have mentioned, it really is a good deal.  not sure how that guy came up with $300 in tools but he's dreaming.  PSA also has belemished lowers right now for 60 bucks.  after what ive mentioned you'll need a red dot and/or and rear sight and you've got a nice rifle.
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 9:10:56 AM EDT
For your very first AR-15 rifle I'd spend another $300 bucks and get a Colt 6920
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 9:21:47 AM EDT
If you want to piece one together, PSA frequently has great deals on uppers. Don't suggest using the Blackthorne, even in jest.
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 9:48:28 AM EDT
Palmetto State Armory, Stag, or Smith & Wesson for that price range.

We have Bushmasters, only 3 left, at our work and we have not been pleased with their durability.  Barrels shot out very quickly.  But for $800, hell, $600, you could get a great setup from Palmetto with their daily deals.  Blemished lowers are on sale for $59 right now, I'll guarantee it'll be fine, you won't even know what's blemished.  Or a complete blem lower for $179, plus a complete upper for $350-450.

Or if building yourself, it could be even cheaper.  Look into Midwest Industries for great handguards, SS Gen II is the king of lightweight.

I digress....just shop around, $800 for a BM is not worth the money.
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 10:51:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2013 10:57:05 AM EDT by semiautomatic]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sanausnol:
Just saw this kit which is an even better deal as it includes the Geissele SSA trigger group, Magpul furniture and CHF barrel for only $150 more: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/rifle-kits/psa-16-chf-m4a1-moe-ssa-rifle-kit.html
View Quote

PSA has good quality and this is a really nice kit for the money, I would go this route if it were me.  The trigger alone costs more than the $150 extra you will pay over their standard kit if you bought it separately and you get a CHF barrel with MOE furniture to boot.
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 5:36:28 PM EDT
Buy First, Build Second.
Link Posted: 10/17/2013 5:56:51 PM EDT
Do your research and build. I'm about to finish up my first build and this will be my first AR. You can get all the tools you will NEED for less than $150. You will be able to build several more and if you're like me and many others you will own more than one. For a basic no frills AR of mid range quality can be done for less than $700. This will be a much better rifle than the bushmaster you are looking at. If you have any questions along the way look/ask on forums or if you have friend(s) who know their way around the rifle you can ask them. Also youtube can be a great help, there are plenty of tutorials on there as well.
Link Posted: 10/17/2013 6:47:37 PM EDT
What all tools would I need, a set of pin punches and a hammer?
Link Posted: 10/17/2013 7:09:17 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jsinar:
What all tools would I need, a set of pin punches and a hammer?
View Quote


Here is what I use:

Basic Punch set
Brass hammer
AR Armorer's Tool (Gem State)
Vise (Vise)
Upper Receiver Vise Block (Vise Block)
Also helps to have a torque wrench but not truly required.
Link Posted: 10/18/2013 3:09:34 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sanausnol:


Here is what I use:

Basic Punch set
Brass hammer
AR Armorer's Tool (Gem State)
Vise (Vise)
Upper Receiver Vise Block (Vise Block)
Also helps to have a torque wrench but not truly required.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sanausnol:
Originally Posted By jsinar:
What all tools would I need, a set of pin punches and a hammer?


Here is what I use:

Basic Punch set
Brass hammer
AR Armorer's Tool (Gem State)
Vise (Vise)
Upper Receiver Vise Block (Vise Block)
Also helps to have a torque wrench but not truly required.


And a Stark SE-1 Pistol Grip for.....just in case
Link Posted: 10/18/2013 5:05:24 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jsinar:
What all tools would I need, a set of pin punches and a hammer?
View Quote


For the lower:
a couple punches
small hammer
armorer tool(for buffer tube)
lower vise block(optional, built mine without one)

upper:(not including tools that were used for the lower)
upper vice block
Cheap torque wrench(would be a good idea for barrel nut)

Would also recommend a set of SAE and Metric alen wrenches.
Link Posted: 10/18/2013 6:38:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2013 6:39:48 AM EDT by esq1995]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Indicium:
Buy First, Build Second.
View Quote


Personally, this is the route I took many years ago and I still think it's the best way to go.  I bought my first Bushmaster way back in the ban-era.  Then bought a couple of complete lowers and totally separate complete uppers to add my next couple of AR's.  This was a great option after I knew more about quality and desireable features, and it allowed me to get the configurations that I really wanted.  Build after you become thoroughly engrossed and educated in the platform.  (Don't worry, you will end up with more than one!)

For complete lowers: DSA, PSA, SAA are great places to start.

For complete uppers:  PK Firearms, PSA, DD, Rainier and many other reputable places

PS -- I think 850 is a little high for what you get on the patrolman and please, don't do anything Blackthorne.

CDNN has some good deals on good starter platforms right now.
Link Posted: 10/18/2013 7:09:53 AM EDT
I have a friend tighten the barrel nuts, but i can assemble a whole lower with just a pair of larger pliers with tape around the jaws and a small hammer or pounding device. the only lower I scratched was my very 1st one near the bolt catch. i would say the bare minimum tools you need are a vice, upper vice block, barrel nut wrench and torque wrench to get the right torque setting.
Link Posted: 10/19/2013 8:59:41 PM EDT
The PSA kits are still on sale for $550, and my buddy has all the tools to assemble one, if they're still on sale when I get paid again I'm probably going that route, if not I've made my mind up on the CMMG complete rifle.
Link Posted: 10/19/2013 9:30:17 PM EDT
I wouldn't own either.
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 4:28:57 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sanausnol:


300 dollars in tools?  I think I have maybe $100 in tools that I have used to build 10+ rifles with.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sanausnol:
Originally Posted By desertmoon:
You can buy a good rifle or carbine for anywhere from 900 bucks to 1400....to build one you need about 800 dollars in parts and another 300 dollars in tools....

Just buy one.


300 dollars in tools?  I think I have maybe $100 in tools that I have used to build 10+ rifles with.


Buy your fist one OP and shoot the hell out of it. Learn and understand it's function inside and out. Then build from then on. For building one, it's closer to $300 in tools than $100... You'll need a good bench vice, Brownells (5) lug barrel wrench, torque wrench in foot pounds, a receiver extension wrench, an upper receiver vice/action block, a lower receiver vice/action block, appropriate sized punches, a steel hammer, a delrin & rubber mallet, some moly grease... (and maybe a small torque wrench for inch pounds in order to torque the gas key screws to spec but not totally necessary. With shipping charges on all tools mentioned it came to around maybe a little over $250 for my tools. I went with Spikes action blocks and receiver extension wrench, Brownells punches, hammers, and barrel wrench, Craftsmen wrenches/torque wrenches, etc... Tools that will last a lifetime. This was after I bought my first Colt, and a second Spike's rifles. OP, don't purchase anything from Blackthorne.... Do some research on them and you will see why. The same goes for Hesse/Vulcan and Olympic. Trash in equals trash out... If your on a budget PSA makes an alright rifle. Spend a little more and get a Spikes or BCM...
Link Posted: 10/20/2013 4:55:18 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
I wouldn't own either.
View Quote


If you are talking PSA? I wouldn't own one either.
Link Posted: 10/23/2013 4:34:12 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sanausnol:
300 dollars in tools?  I think I have maybe $100 in tools that I have used to build 10+ rifles with.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sanausnol:



Originally Posted By desertmoon:

You can buy a good rifle or carbine for anywhere from 900 bucks to 1400....to build one you need about 800 dollars in parts and another 300 dollars in tools....



Just buy one.




300 dollars in tools?  I think I have maybe $100 in tools that I have used to build 10+ rifles with.




What about the vice, and a bench, and pin punches, and good lighting.....etc, etc. etc.....



 
Link Posted: 10/23/2013 5:48:21 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By desertmoon:


What about the vice, and a bench, and pin punches, and good lighting.....etc, etc. etc.....
 
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Originally Posted By desertmoon:
Originally Posted By sanausnol:
Originally Posted By desertmoon:
You can buy a good rifle or carbine for anywhere from 900 bucks to 1400....to build one you need about 800 dollars in parts and another 300 dollars in tools....

Just buy one.


300 dollars in tools?  I think I have maybe $100 in tools that I have used to build 10+ rifles with.


What about the vice, and a bench, and pin punches, and good lighting.....etc, etc. etc.....
 


That includes the vice and the punch set...who doesn't have a bench or good lighting???  
Link Posted: 10/23/2013 5:49:00 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By muddawggin:


This...buy the parts to build the rifle and configuration that suits you.  Buy the tools that will build 100 more.  Just research the quality parts to buy.  And I do mean RESEARCH.  You are in the right place.
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Originally Posted By muddawggin:
Originally Posted By sanausnol:
Originally Posted By desertmoon:
You can buy a good rifle or carbine for anywhere from 900 bucks to 1400....to build one you need about 800 dollars in parts and another 300 dollars in tools....

Just buy one.


300 dollars in tools?  I think I have maybe $100 in tools that I have used to build 10+ rifles with.


This...buy the parts to build the rifle and configuration that suits you.  Buy the tools that will build 100 more.  Just research the quality parts to buy.  And I do mean RESEARCH.  You are in the right place.


+100000
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 5:30:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 5:30:55 PM EDT by jsinar]
Come Wednesday, I'll be ordering this one http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/55ae160.htm for $660 it seems like a good starter one.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 6:52:06 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 9divdoc:
For your very first AR-15 rifle I'd spend another $300 bucks and get a Colt 6920
View Quote


THIS!!!

Quality rifle, good resale value. Become familiar with the weapon platform before you build.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 7:13:27 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jsinar:
Come Wednesday, I'll be ordering this one http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/55ae160.htm for $660 it seems like a good starter one.
View Quote


I had this exact rifle and never had a single issue with it. It's a great first AR in my opinion.
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