Saw this while visiting their booth. They are dubbing it the BFS (Binary Firing System). It's currently awaiting BATFE approval. The concept sounds interesting. In the third position, it fires a round when the trigger is pulled, then another when it is released forward to reset. No claimed cyclic rates or anything, and that's all the details I have right now.



What say ye?

Update 12/27/2015:

BFS FAQ and technical summary:


Will the BFS work with 9mm uppers?

Yes, though given the amount of mass in the bolt and buffer some tuning to the rifle may be required. But it has been done by at least 1 Arfcommer in this thread.


Will the BFS work with my .22 kit/upper?

Yes, but it requires permanent modification to your .22 bolt, as it's factory configuration cocks the hammer too far, and actuates the backup disconnector.


Why does the rifle need tuning, doesn't the trigger work? Should I wait for bugs to be worked out?

There are no bugs in the trigger. The trigger works exactly as advertised. However, because it operates independently of the bolt carrier, your finger and outrun your gun. Our testing so far has shown that a total reciprocating mass of approximately 11 oz allows the rifle to operate at a cyclic rate high enough to prevent out running the gun. Franklin Armory has also suggested opening the gas port as an alternative to using lightweight carriers or buffers.


If lighter is better, why not take all the weights out of the buffer?

Reducing buffer weight to the extreme allows the bolt carrier to bounce too far when going into battery, resulting in light strikes.




What is a backup disconnector? How does it work? Why can't I "ride the reset" and get this thing to work?

Watch this for an explanation

There are 2 types of malfunctions that can occur when using the trigger. Inadvertent actuation of the backup disconnector is one. That is also the easiest to prevent. You simply need to make sure that on the pull stroke, you pull the trigger past the point of releasing the hammer, and take up all of the over travel. This moves the backup disconnector out of the path of the hammer. The second malfunction is a light primer strike, caused by hammer follow or bolt bounce. This occurs when your rifle is not capable of the same cyclic rate as your finger, or because your carrier bounces too far when going into battery. To speed up your rifle, you have 3 options: enlarge your gas port, reduce the mass of the system with lightweight components, or use a heavier buffer spring, or a combination of all three. Currently it appears 11 oz total mass for BCG and buffer works well with a normal gas configuration.




What about the possibility of a 0-45-90 selector?
Given the amount of material being removed to house multiple disconnectors, FA has stated this is not possible to do.

What lowers will this fit?

The trigger housing is machined to a maximum material condition meaning that slight variations in the lower on the small side will cause issues with fit. There are a wild variety of lowers this trigger drops right into, and some it does not, some even from the same manufacturer. I think to say "because it fit mine it will fit yours" is foolhardy. Generally, a minor amount of material removal from either the FCG pocket of your lower or the trigger housing is all that will be required to get fitment. In some cases, shimming of the trigger housing in a loose fitting lower is recommended by FA. The trigger housing is 0.681-0.682 wide. Most lowers have 0.685 wide pockets, however a slight taper to the pocket can cause binding.

What do you need to help prevent hammer follow ?

In most cases, running a lightweight carrier with carbine buffer and a SpringCo Red or Orange extra power buffer spring will give you a pretty reliable setup. Most have seen great success with this combination.

Videos posted from ARFCOMMERS using the BFS:

http://youtu.be/1hKUZBd8npo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMp3PC0diwI&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-XbcP6AbD0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP-bygySVlY

http://vid788.photobucket.com/albums/yy166/jimmys120/FC3EF678-A038-4E4F-AF48-FA3BBEEC31B7_zpsy35lxpie.mp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQNUGR0QAdU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipiGtsZUxko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQV15-wmrBY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhffGuJ4iY8&feature=youtu.be

http://vid261.photobucket.com/albums/ii65/turtlesniper/Mobile%20Uploads/trim.EE85A5F2-4244-4FC1-837D-4D39EE0BD5E3.mp4

http://vid261.photobucket.com/albums/ii65/turtlesniper/Mobile%20Uploads/trim.3D404ABB-7ABA-4AAA-964E-0BD9C72F0BD0.mp4

http://vid261.photobucket.com/albums/ii65/turtlesniper/Mobile%20Uploads/trim.0DDDE443-FABB-4DB9-91F5-4CDA354790E8.mp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcOciQ9IXvo&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFiD8I3JP_s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu9-U9nVB9Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atUxkjoBS5Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVJHVqgXRVI

https://youtu.be/h-9VoW7DEYg

https://youtu.be/Gftg8t3ltDw

https://youtu.be/530rFIAzqP4

https://youtu.be/ONmDCStbgqU

https://youtu.be/OAe1dqg1yeg

https://youtu.be/t9O5NAHCp7Y

http://vid261.photobucket.com/albums/ii65/turtlesniper/Mobile%20Uploads/trim.036F7133-0144-4260-BEDD-DF9748905425.mp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=3cBkbYdT3og

https://youtu.be/NaumdeRsQns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emNr5PmagDc

BFS maintenance guide:

IF YOU HAVEN'T YET, GREASE THIS CAM FOLLOWER PIN

Ye say id like to try one out. I feel like there would be some major getting used to with it firing on pull and release, but should be twice the ROF as semi so i'll give one a whirl if theyre affordable

Cool concept....my prediction...If the second shot is fired by releasing the trigger from the first pull, this will die a quick death at the tech branch.

Wes

 

*fires more than one shot per trigger pull*





"Hurrdurr, isa masheengun!"
I doubt it gets approved.

 

That would be my guess as well.

I actually had it happen to me with my SP1 ~35 yrs ago. The gun started shooting "funny." After about the third shot I started holding the trigger back until recoil was all done. BAM!! As I released it. So I tried it a couple more times and the decided I'd better find out what was wrong before I went to jail. It was either the hammer pin or the trigger pin had worked it's way out of the side of the receiver. Pushed it back in and was good to go again.

The law states "one shot per function of the trigger", the pull is one function and the release is another function. Most likely this will get approved.

This, we had a thread about this very trigger (or one very similar to it) a while back.  Statutes/Laws were posted as well as previous ATF opinions.  This thing will most likely get approved.

Training and muscle memory what it is, this sounds dangerous as all h*ll. Releasing  a trigger to fire off a round ? What could go wrong ?

If I want a fast trigger I'll get an S3G or similar.

Damn that's fast.

my old paintball gun could do this.  With a double trigger, it was pretty fast.  this aint gonna pass.

Here is the letter on the mini-14 trigger.  I posted up how you could modify a 3rd burst trigger group to do this in the last thread. It looks like they have made some improvements over the basic design I had.

+1

I believe there is a FCG like this in use, don't remember for what firearm.

something like this was posted here a while ago and somebody about trap/skeet guns using this kind of set up iirc

Staple in a Mini, wut?

I won't get one, even if it was approved, simply because I can't afford to burn ammo 2x as fast.

I can kinda see the appeal, though.

If there is a ruling/approval I'm sure the ATF will get so many follow up letters that they will reverse their ruling just like shouldering the sig brace.  BTW, someone should tell the guy in the video it isn't a good idea to record and post any illegal/felonious activity such as shouldering a sig brace.

Video answered my one question about being able to decline the fire on release after pulling the trigger. I'm glad to see that you can.

If it's approved I'll buy one.

 


































 

At the same time the ATF can't arbitrarily change their opinion as it suits their whims without a logical technical explanation. Their opinions and rulings ultimately need to be upheld by Congress, and historically manufacturers affected have sued in such cases. For the rest of us we just have to watch our own butts.

On the trigger, it's a cool concept, but not a whole lot of an advantage over doing a quick double tap with any decent conventional trigger.

Need to see Jerry Miculek do a side by side with normal trigger before I form any hard opinions. If he can make it shoot like an mg42, then I could maybe get M3 (greasegun) like rof. No practical value, could be fun with a .22 upper and tracers

It's easy to get a trigger that will do this.  Just send a good-quality mil-spec trigger to that Springfield guy.  

I like the idea and hope it becomes available.  I hope the guy in the video has a tax stamp for his Sig brace, or he will be getting some ATF loving.

It's not hard to time yourself.  I can nearly do M3 ROF with a regular trigger (at least for 1 magazine).  I think it would be fairly common for people to get 800 to 900RPM with a fire on pull/fire on release design.  That's still not quite as fast as this semi auto:





 

Amazing trigger. Makes double tap a thing of the past. I too will pick on up if they get approval.

Even though the mini-14 got approved i would think the ATF would consider that multiple rounds being fired with one trigger pull and consider it full auto, i mean its basically a two round burst.

It meets the letter of the law as two functions happen per pull.  This is especially apparent because you can turn off the second shot at any time with the safety.



 

Fair enough.

I wonder how the rate of fire compares to a full auto. Obviously only 2 rounds being fired but i wonder how much time is in between the rounds, seems like it would be a bit slower since their would be some mechanical delay between the trigger being pulled and the trigger being released.

What if there were two triggers???????? Writing in my patent book...........BRB.

In a semi auto you can pull the trigger too fast and outrun the carrier. If you read my bump gun thread I address some of the timing issues semi auto's run into.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/655109_BumpSAW_Bump_IAR_Picture_Video_and_theoretical_discussion_thread_.html

It appears that Franklin Armory has addressed some of the timing control issues.  I haven't had one in my hands yet, to give it a good inspection, but if you look at the top they have added a few pieces that look to keep the hammer from being dropped too early.



Depending on what type of AR you have will determine your max rate of fire.  A traditional M16 will cycle in the 650-700RPM range, that is as fast as the bolt closes and pretty much as early as it can go off.  Since the average person can probably pull a traditional trigger at roughly 400rpm, you can expect to effectively double that ~800rpm with the new trigger.  This would lead to hammer follow on a traditional M16 but be perfectly fine on an M4 that routinely cycles at 900rpm.  Hopefully the timing control implemented by Franklin Armory will keep it from having hammer follow issues.



 

I'm more wondering about that vertical grip...

I know they can be put on if the length is over a certain amount but that sucker looks shorter than the other one's I've seen.

I don't care.  He also shouldered it



FWIW: There is a good chance that is a registered MG to cover themselves if ATF decides the FCG is a MG FCG.



 

Not sure if its been posted but there is another company out there making a similar trigger. Not sure if it has a semi and double tap selector, might just be double tap only.

http://shop.libertygunworksinc.com/

Obviously the franklin armory BFS seems a bit nicer but figured i would post the link as if that trigger system was approved by the ATF, along with the letter from the Mini 14 then i would say this will be approved as well.

EDIT: This rifle is Safe/Double, no options for a semi auto.

Franklin Armory is an 07/FFL and Class II SOT. per their Facebook

Could very well be.

No option for safing the second shot, which IMO is a fatal flaw to the liberty gun works rifle.



 

That and their price point is ridiculous, requires you to buy a $800 lower, no thanks!

If Franklin Armory can keep their trigger in the $300 range i bet they will sell like hot cakes.

I personally will buy one assuming it has a half way decent two stage semi auto trigger. Certainly not going to sell my full auto M16 as a two shot burst doesnt compare to true full auto but for a couple hundred bucks its a reasonably priced way to add higher rate of fire to multiple AR15s in your collection, or for anyone who wants burst fire without having to sell a kidney to afford it.

Lmao!

Yeah, I thought it was pretty funny too.



 

interesting

This is what I'll be purchasing once available. I'm not a fan of the pull fire/release fire function. Dangerous IMHO

I don't understand why this is considered dangerous by some.

Trap gun release triggers are more dangerous in my opinion.  Shooters develop an expectation that the gun will not fire on pulling the trigger because the pull sets the trigger.  Then release to fire.  I've watched more than one release shooter say, "Oh, sweet shotgun, mind if I try a few birds?" and they promply dust the trap house with a load of #8 shot because they were attempting to set the trigger like they would on their personal shotgun.


The only expectation a shooter should develop with a fire on pull fire on release trigger is that bullets might come out of the business end no matter what your trigger finger does.  Who in their right mind pulls a trigger, retains the trigger and begins muzzle sweeping prior to release and reset?  Anyone who does is a danger to themselves and others regardless of the type of trigger they have.

Additionally, this requires zero modification to your normal weapon handling.  None.  Unlike bump firing.

The guy is a felon.  He shouldered the brace.

His limitation is how fast the gun is cycling.

I want to see it paired with a bump fire stock!

It probably wouldn't work very well because of the timing issues.



 

And possibly illegal.



 

As has already been stated, it follows the letter of the law.  I bet this thing gets approved.

I would definitely consider buying one of these if they are priced reasonably (*cough Tac-Con cough*) and get approved. If anything, just to have fun and send lead down range.

They're an 02 SOT. They can test what they want.

Wasn't there was a thread in here not too long ago that detailed out how you could make the same basic thing out of a modified M16A2 burst trigger group?

yup, here it is

So is Franklin basically just making that trigger described in the link it are they adding extra features? Ie 2 stage semi trigger or other features? If not all you're buying from them is a modded mil spec trigger with a ATF approval letter.