Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 12/29/2002 1:23:31 PM EST
Hi, I collect military weapons and have decided to add an AR-15 to my collection. I understand that the true version used by the military has full auto capabilities which makes it much more difficult to own.

Considering the fact that I would like to have the ar I purchase as close as possible to military spec and a good model to shoot which model would be my best choice? I really am just beginning to learn about the different models and I am concerned that if I look at the true collectors value I might not wind up with the best functioning model.

thanks for your help
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 1:34:12 PM EST
Get a Colt SP1. It is close to the early M-16A1 and it has collector value among AR-15 owners. You can reliably shoot it,and enjoy the fact that it's a collectable AR, and it very closely resembles the rifle you are wanting to collect.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 2:28:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 2:46:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By coltcarbine: Get a Colt SP1. It is close to the early M-16A1 and it has collector value among AR-15 owners. You can reliably shoot it,and enjoy the fact that it's a collectable AR, and it very closely resembles the rifle you are wanting to collect.
View Quote
I agree a early SP1, is a good choice.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 3:03:59 PM EST
Thanks for all of the quick replies. Is buying a full auto military issue M-16 out of the question? I live in Kentucky. Is it cost or legally prohibitive? Where would I even find one? I was just at a show here today and good condition SP-1s were listed at ~$1700-1800. Is there a better dealer to look at (online for instance) or is my best bet to keep with the gun shows and check with local gun dealers. Thanks again for all the help
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 9:12:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By joewitt: Thanks for all of the quick replies. Is buying a full auto military issue M-16 out of the question? I live in Kentucky. Is it cost or legally prohibitive? Where would I even find one? I was just at a show here today and good condition SP-1s were listed at ~$1700-1800. Is there a better dealer to look at (online for instance) or is my best bet to keep with the gun shows and check with local gun dealers. Thanks again for all the help
View Quote
Full auto is alive & well in KY. You should visit Knob Creek for their machine gun shoot every year. Check out both Hoplite & KY Imports, both in KY. A full auto M-16 will run approx $6-10,000 from what I hear. I bought a post ban Colt AR-15 for about $900 a couple of years ago. My M-16 that I had in the Marine Corps was made by GM's Hydra-Matic division. I have no problem owning a post ban model, personally.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 10:36:30 PM EST
You also have to apply to the ATF for approval to get a full auto weapon. then you have to pay that $2000 tax stamp. I also hear it can take a very long time (up to a year) for the ATF to approve you for the purchase. It's a big hassle and you have to register with the ATF, so it is up to you to decide if it is worth it. Also, as mentioned before, an M16 is expensive. The law states that civilians can't own full auto weapons made after 1986. Those made prior to 1986 have been registered and are in short supply. That is why you will be paying around $10,000, give or take a couple of thousand, for an M16 whenever one becomes available. Also of note, the M16A2 (as currently issued to Army and Marine infantry) only has three round burst and not full auto. However, it is still considered an automatic weapon and subject to all laws concerning class 3 firearms.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 10:47:17 PM EST
Just to add, any preban Colt SP-1` or Government model AR will come very close to issued M16's, whether full size or the carbine models, A1 or A2, as they were issued. Current Colt AR's probably won't come as close to the military versions. For a postban rifle, Bushmaster will be your best bet. They will have chrome lined chambers and barrels, military grade barrel steel, and all the internal parts will be milspec sized components (except the actual fire control and bolt assembly). You can get an A2, A2 car, or M4 variant from Bushmaster and then send it to Kurt's Kustom to have a fake flash suppressor or flash suppressor looking muzzle brake installed. You could even get a a filed bayonet lug on it so you will have the bayonet lug profile and not have it be functional. Also, military carbines and m4's only have a 14.5" barrel. Civilian rifles have to be 16" in order to be legal (unless you have a full auto, then any barrel is legal). that means you have to ahve wither a 16" barrel or you can get the 14.5" barrel and have a muzzle attachemnt pinned and welded so that the overall length is 16". You can have something extremely close or exactly like an issued M16, it just depends on how much money you want to spend and how much trouble you want to put into it. The beauty of the AR is that there are so many configurations. You could also buy an extra upper so that you can switch between a full size and an M4. The possibilities are almost endless.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 11:06:37 PM EST
You also have to apply to the ATF for approval to get a full auto weapon. then you have to pay that $2000 tax stamp.
View Quote
I think knight must have hit one too many keys, the tax stamp for NFA weapons is two hundred dollars.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 11:08:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By coltcarbine:
You also have to apply to the ATF for approval to get a full auto weapon. then you have to pay that $2000 tax stamp.
View Quote
I think knight must have hit one too many keys, the tax stamp for NFA weapons is two hundred dollars.
View Quote
Oops, yes hit the key one time to many. I meant $200, not $2000. Sorry.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 5:34:35 AM EST
It looks like I will be looking at the SP-1s. I try to be a true collector, but $8-10K vs. ~$1-2K and I suppose the first use of the rifle would be my wife on me! :-) Thanks again. Is the $1700-1800 a fair price and are local dealers or gun shows the best way to go? Thanks
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 10:27:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By joewitt: It looks like I will be looking at the SP-1s. I try to be a true collector, but $8-10K vs. ~$1-2K and I suppose the first use of the rifle would be my wife on me! :-) Thanks again. Is the $1700-1800 a fair price and are local dealers or gun shows the best way to go? Thanks
View Quote
That would be a fair price for an unfired mint or near mint rifle. Unfired rifles will go anywhere from $1500 to $2500 depending on condition. In an origninal, unaltered, unfired, mint in box rifle will cost you about those price. Any modifications and changes that might have been done or excessive handling marks will bring down the cost somewhat. An used and fired rifle, depending on condition, will usually cost less than $1500 (usually around $1200). When I first started on AR's, I paid $2500 for a NIB, unfired preban Bushy with a few accessories. That is something I would not ever do again under any circumstances. I love that Bushy, but she became a safe queen. I amm sure she works great, I just don't have the heart to use and abuse her. For a collector, that's fine though. For your purposes, it might work for you. However, if you plan on shooting the rifle at all, skip the NIB. Get something that has been taken care of, but used enough where you know it works without problems. If the rifles you are seeing are used, try and haggle the price down a bit. $1800 for a used rifle is a bit much. You could also look at the Equipment Exchange on these boards. there are usually good deals here and fellow members won't try and gouge you on the price.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 8:49:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By joewitt: Is the $1700-1800 a fair price and are local dealers or gun shows the best way to go? Thanks
View Quote
Not being a smart ass, but either or both. Check your local dealer & also check out the local gun shows. One one hand you want your local dealer to stay in business but OTOH you don't want to be raped either. Same for gunshows: you want the guy who drove all day/night & unloaded by himself to make a sale or two. OTOH, he may be long gone when you have a problem with the gun. Or he may be a jerk. It's a double edged sword, no real "good/best" way to go. Don't forget to check out "Gun List" newspaper as their ads are nation wide.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 4:59:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2002 5:00:03 AM EST by joewitt]
Originally Posted By BobCole: Not being a smart ass, but either or both. Check your local dealer & also check out the local gun shows.
View Quote
Hi, thanks for all the help. I guess I used some lousy wording in the question because I assumed that the gun show and local dealers would be the obvious places to check. I just didn't know if online options or (as I learned) the equipment exchange might be a better way to go. I suspect the most important thing would be to take my time with the purchase and not rush into things. Looks like I will be keeping my eyes peeled for an SP-1 . Thanks again and happy new year
Top Top