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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/1/2005 3:05:47 AM EDT
www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=205164




Current Winchester® (Olin) production .223 (5.56x45 mm) at a sweet price!... due to slight blemishes that won't affect the performance one bit. Brass-cased, Boxer-primed, reloadable. 62-grain. FMJ SS109 with M855 Penetrator bullet. Muzzle Velocity: 3,020 F.P.S. Muzzle Energy: 1,255 ft.-lbs.

WX2-94339 - 250 rds. .223 (5.56x45 mm) 62-gr. FMJ Ammo
$79.97

WX2-94340 - 500 rds. .223 (5.56x45 mm) 62-gr. FMJ Ammo
$157.97

WX2-94341 - 1,000 rds. .223 (5.56x45 mm) 62-gr. FMJ Ammo
$299.97



I had went back 3-4 pages here and not seen anything mentioned about this ammo. So, has anyone tried it? And what are the "slight blemishes" mentioned?

I assume this is of similar quality as Federal/Lake City XM855, but I'm asking anyway for clarification.

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:31:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 7:35:30 AM EDT by Spooge5150]
Winchester (Olin) used to have the contract to run the Lake City Plant before Federal (ATK) did.

Winchester knows how to make M855.

I have only used the stuff made at the L.C. Plant when they ran it, not this. I'm sure it's just as good.

I would rate this M855 second to IMI M855.

The slight blemishes are most likely a disclaimer due to the fact it isn't pretty new looking brass, that comes from running the L.C. Plant. Ammo there wasn't about appearance, it's was about use.
Or most likely wasn't perfect enough to get put into the Ranger LEO ammo boxes.

At $299.97 for 1000, is too much to pay I think, but it is grade A ammo. I would just look for better deals. I stick with the boxed IMI M855 (They have the best ammo Q.C. is the world) for SHTF, and shoot up the M855PD for plinking.

But if you buy this ammo, you will be getting great M855, just at a stiff price.


Hope this helps!

Spooge5150.


ETA link www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/catalog/cfrdetail.aspx?symbol=RA556M855&cart=NS41Nm1t
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 1:24:26 PM EDT
So this is M855 PD ammo. Not 1st "cut"? I have a dealer in town who's selling the same. just curious as to what i have.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 1:31:39 PM EDT
If it is in the RANGER box, it is tier 1 ammo. The best next to IMI that you can get.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:35:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2005 5:35:26 PM EDT by Luckiduc13]
So is this the good stuff or not???
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:38:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Luckiduc13:
So is this the good stuff or not???



Yes. It's good ammo. W.C.C. has not released any of the PD ammo.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:02:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spooge5150:
Winchester (Olin) used to have the contract to run the Lake City Plant before Federal (ATK) did.



Where does WIN run the current M855? They're still making it. I don't know that the Mil is still buying it from WIN, but the W.C.C. that I bought under the RANGER line was 03 production if I remember correctly. That would put the current production M855 from WIN after the ATK era.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 9:59:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By Spooge5150:
Winchester (Olin) used to have the contract to run the Lake City Plant before Federal (ATK) did.



Where does WIN run the current M855? They're still making it. I don't know that the Mil is still buying it from WIN, but the W.C.C. that I bought under the RANGER line was 03 production if I remember correctly. That would put the current production M855 from WIN after the ATK era.




Yup, Winchester obviously has all the necessary tooling and goodies to create milspec loads outside Lake City.

FWIW, I think Winchester still has a mil contract for ammo, they probably just produce much less of it than they did when they ran Lake City. I know they still also produce NATO spec 9mm loads too.

Also, don't they still produce M193 for the military as well? Isn't all of their Q3131 going to the military the sole reason they contracted with IMI to produce the Q3131A for us in the first place?

It's been a while since I was up to date on all this stuff, but that's how I remember it.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 4:19:43 AM EDT
IIRC, when the unit that Jessica Lynch was a part of got ambushed in Iraq, the DOD after-action assessment was that personnel with active duty non-combat units and NG/AR units needed to increase their training with their M16s, and DOD increased its annual ammo needs by a multiple.

That caused a shock wave, since LC was already running flat out. A relative who monitors govt contract awards sent me a link to the notice that DOD had issued large ammo contracts to both Winchester Olin and IMI in order to supplement LC's production of 5.56. IIRC, when that news hit, there was even a flap about the IMI ammo causing a problem in the Muslim world, so the directive was that the IMI ammo would be used stateside, while the Federal and Win ammo would go overseas.

It was shortly after that when the IMI-made Q3131A began to dry up. When I visited a gun dealer near my range yesterday who is a diehard Win ammo dealer (I don't get there often, too far away to just "drop in"), I noticed that the only Win .223/5.56 he had was cases of the subject M855. It was also expensive, and since the dealer near my home still gets periodic quantities of XM193 for $115/500 and M855 doesn't do as well in my 1x9 as the M193 does, I decided to pass on the Win M855.

So it's no surprise to me that Win M855 has hit the civilian market. It's the same circumstances that made Federal XM193 and XM855 available to us .... contract run product that won't meet milspec requirements (usually improper primer and case neck sealant) and is packaged and sold to us civies to recover the cost.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:35:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JoeInCT:
So it's no surprise to me that Win M855 has hit the civilian market. It's the same circumstances that made Federal XM193 and XM855 available to us .... contract run product that won't meet milspec requirements (usually improper primer and case neck sealant) and is packaged and sold to us civies to recover the cost.



Once again I don't buy into this theory. If this were true then the number of rounds of XM193 released would represent one of the most monumental manufacturing screw ups in history.

Additionally they would not have incurred the addtional expense to produced a retail box for it. They would have likely packaged it up like the PD stuff.

I think that FED had the excess capacity and just ran the sealant at a hit and miss level because it is not a requirement for civilian consumption.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:57:16 AM EDT
I just wonder how, if they are selling these in the 20 rnd box shown , they are selling them in lots of 250rnds...

T
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 7:25:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bfett:
I just wonder how, if they are selling these in the 20 rnd box shown , they are selling them in lots of 250rnds...

T



That's a good question. I remember some .308 I bought from them came 20 rounds in a plastic bag that looked like SG packaged themselves while others came in a box of 20.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 9:00:10 AM EDT
The boxes I bought were winchester mfg. by Olin. 62 gr. M855 in 20 round boxes. It wasn't cheap, but I haven't seen any mil. type ammo that wasn't being sold in large lots (250 rds. to 500rds.) so I bought several boxes (it looked good, brass looked good, no pull marks, etc.). Once again, is this 1st or 2nd tier ammo? Before I buy more(it was 5.50 per box IIRC) i'd like to know. thanks for any help. rob
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