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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/23/2005 6:23:12 AM EDT
I'm new here, this is my first post and am pretty excited about the information here. I've been looking around this site and found it very helpful, I still have some questions though. My plan is to build an AR, this would be my first one. I'm thinking about just buying the whole kit and then getting lowers. Does someone have a list of the places that sell pretty good kits? Then I know it will all fit together. Or would it be a better Idea to buy the uppers and then the lowers from more quality companies. I'm looking to spend anywhere from 500-800 on this project. Here are a couple questions of mine.

What is the difference between the pre and post ban rifles?

Am I right in saying that the difference between A1 A2 and A3 is just the configuration of the handle on the top?

I know I need to go to an FFL to get the lowers, are there restrictions on buying them? I live in Minnesota and am 20. Am I going to have to wait a few more months to be 21 or go and apply for my pistol purchasing permit? That would really be a pain but whatever it takes to do it legally. I tried contacting a couple places but they weren't any help.

Are most rifles .223 caliber unless stated? is that the same as 5.56? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 7:20:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2005 7:20:21 AM EDT by Stickman]

Originally Posted By Bonstrosity:

What is the difference between the pre and post ban rifles? You want pre-ban

Am I right in saying that the difference between A1 A2 and A3 is just the configuration of the handle on the top? Yes

I know I need to go to an FFL to get the lowers, are there restrictions on buying them? Its the same as buying a rifle

I live in Minnesota and am 20. Am I going to have to wait a few more months to be 21 or go and apply for my pistol purchasing permit? Most states say you need to be 18.

Are most rifles .223 caliber unless stated? is that the same as 5.56? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. You want 5.56, which will allow you to fire .223 and 5.56.



Kits are a great way to go, like you have already found out, its all about how much you want to spend. If you start adding up loads of options on a kit, you can quickly find yourself priced into a Bushmaster or RRA.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 7:26:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2005 7:28:01 AM EDT by blackta6]
The differences between pre and post ban rifles are that if you live in a state that has kept the AWB alive you would need a pre-ban rifle to have the mil goodies like a flash hider, bayo lug, and collapsible stock. Post-ban rifles (AWB compliant) usually don't have any of those items.

As for your second question, I would say you have a good grasp on it. There are other variances also. In cronological order according to commercial sales you have the:
M16 uppers(no FA, no brass deflector)
A1(FA, but no brass deflector)
C7(A1 sights, FA, and brass deflector)
A2
A2M4(has the feedramp cuts)
A3(flattop)
A3M4

As for the laws on purchasing an AR15, it is a rifle ask your FFL if you are able to buy a rifle legally. I think that you may have to wait a couple days, but you shouldn't need the pistol permit. Ask that ? in your hometown forum, they will know your laws better.

.223 and 5.56 are close in size and shape, but 5.56 can produce higher pressures in the chamber. I would recommend getting a barrel chambered for the 5.56, then you can use both cal.

ETA: Damn Stick you're fast
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 9:06:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackta6:

ETA: Damn Stick you're fast



Was on my second large cup of coffee.....
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 12:50:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bonstrosity:
Does someone have a list of the places that sell pretty good kits?



Try Model 1 Sales
J&T
del-ton
M&A parts

Model one is probably the lowset price.

For Stag lowers (as good as any other lower out there but far less $$):
Eaglefirearms.net
Title II



I'm looking to spend anywhere from 500-800 on this project.


On the high side of your range you can get in on the AR15.com Special Edition Black Rifle (SEBR) completely assembled from Bushmaster.


Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.


If you are going to get a Carbine 16in. barrel. I'd go for a chrome lined M4 profile this means the diameter of the barrel under the hand guards is thinner making the rifle lighter. There is also a light weight or super light weight barrel that is thinner over the whole distance of the barrel. This is good if you are going to carry the rifle any distance since it will be much lighter as a whole. Chrome lining will make the barrel easier to clean and it will last a bit longer. I would also get an A3 upper. That way you could add a scope, red dot sight, detachable carry handle, or a rear flip up sight. Lots of options with an A3 upper. You may want to add a Free Float tube hand guard in place of the original style HG's. This means nothing touches the barrel from where it attaches to the upper receiver forward. This will mean if you sling in really tight or have a bipod <-(Click this Link for a good deal) nothing will pull on the barrel thus throwiing off your point of aim. Other than that get a couple 30 round and 20 round <-(good for bench work) magazines. Eaglefirearms.net has them at a pretty good price.

Come back with any questions.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 5:53:44 PM EDT
Kits are a nice way to go if they have the options that you're looking for. If not, you can also do your own "kit" by purchasing a complete assembled upper, lower parts kit and stock to go with a stripped lower. With some careful shopping you can choose some very high quality parts and come pretty close to a kit price. That's the route I chose because no one had exactly what I was looking for in a kit.

What style are you looking to build?
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 8:20:31 AM EDT
I'm still trying to figure out exactly what I want. I really like the posts that are up. here is what I'm looking for.

Probably a chrome lined barrel
Like someone said before the A3 because of its versatility
The stock isn't too big of a deal to me but the multiple position would be nice
Ergo grips (any type but that is right handed and fits your hand well) this one is a higher priority
A free floating handguard but most of them are REALLY expensive

Other then that just a basic dependable rifle that will be fun to shoot. more questions though.

what is really the difference between the m4 profile and the other one?
Should I buy a lower w/ all of the internals assembled or just the lower and buy lowers seperatly?
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:54:51 AM EDT
You already have some good advise above, Just wanted to say Welcome to the site
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 10:39:54 AM EDT
Your lower question will hinge on if you decide to get a full rifle kit that has the lower parts, or if you just want to peicemeal the rifle together.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 11:29:02 AM EDT
If you're 20 and want to buy a rifle you don't have to wait, the pistol permit is only for pistols.

Pre ban and post ban refers to the adjustable stock, flash hider, and byonet lug. Pre ban has all of these things (generally), post ban does not. However, since the bayonet lug is useless and the flash hiders are generally added by most post-ban owners anyway, and you can put your own stock on, there's nothing wrong with getting a post ban unless you want it just because it's a pre ban. You can have your post ban barrel threaded and put your own stock on if it comes completely in post ban configuration. They are generally cheaper, too. If you want a rifle to shoot, it doesn't matter. If you want a rifle to look at and have the cool useless feature of a bayonet lug, get a pre ban.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 12:54:27 PM EDT
I called a couple ffl dealers and they all said that I need a permit if I want to buy a lower. I don't know why for sure I guess it's b/c you can build a pistol out of it. I'll just have to wait.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 2:55:26 PM EDT
That's freaking rediculous. Your FFLs are idiots. Don't you need a designated PISTOL lower to build a pistol?

My advice - call another FFL. Or just buy a complete lower half. If they complain about that, you can always buy a used complete rifle off the EE. eaglefirearms.net has great deals on complete lowers and uppers from Stag Arms. You won't really be building it, but they won't give you any trouble about it hopefully.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 3:05:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 4:10:48 PM EDT by Sharpsshooter1874]
Try looking at the FFL list on file for your state from the dealers here. You can go to RB Precision and check their list. See if any of them are near you, or simply ask them the requirements for having a stripped lower transfered to you. BTW, you can get a stipped Superior Arms lower from them for $90 shipped. They have great advice and service.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:11:15 PM EDT
I think I might have found someone. He seems like he's just an individual doing this stuff on the side along with teaching handgun classes. He turned me down at first but then I explained about registering it as a long gun that I'd be fine. So he's goign to email me tomorrow and I might have a start of my first AR15.

Thanks for the help
Joel
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:18:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:20:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 7:25:11 PM EDT by blackta6]
I was just going to mention to have it transferred as a "rifle" or "long gun" on the form that they fill out. That way they are not inadvertantly selling a pistol to an "underage" buyer. Oh, and a +1 on a Superior from RB Precision. My latest rifle started with a Superior lower 7 months ago. I pieced it together for a whopping $430.

I'm sure Stickman will come along and let us know he has built them for cheaper! Lucky Lucky man!
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