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Posted: 9/19/2004 7:45:46 AM EST
Hi all, Im now debating getting a M4A4 style rifle. So I have a few question for the resident experts here. Ive allready learned alot just browsing through this forum, but I have a few more questions.

Chrome plated bolt and carrier, worth it?

Stainless barrels. Other then cost, are there any downsides?

Barrel fluting, why and wouldnt you get that?

Flip up rear sights, are there any that function just like A2 rear sight?

What the diff between a CAR and a M4 handguard?

Looking through the forum, I didnt see any complaints againt Model 1 Sales. How do they compair to ABC?

Heres what Im considering
16 inch barrel stainless with 1 in 9 twist A2 FH, possible freefloat.
short or perhaps midlength handguards. I DONT want rails.
Flat top upper with flip up front and rear sight, to later have a reflex or illum redicule sight
Generic Lower with colapsing stock. A shop near hear has a display with 3 or 4 different types including the Magpull and Vltor, I am going to go there and try them out, see which I like best and go withthat.
I want something for primarly 100 yards and closer, but still able to easly accuratly hit out to 300.
Im more concerned about durability and relibility then look. I dont need match accuracy, but I would perfer as much as I can get.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 8:19:31 AM EST
Chrome plated bolt and carrier, worth it? No, not even a little.

Stainless barrels. Other then cost, are there any downsides? Not really, but many people here enjoy the benfits of chrome lining, which lasts a little longer, is easier to clean (a little), and can aid in extraction (slipperier).

Barrel fluting, why and wouldnt you get that? No really needed for most people, and it is going to depend on what type of barrel you are looking to get.

Flip up rear sights, are there any that function just like A2 rear sight? Get the ARMS 40A if you want a folder, or LMT if you want one that doesn't fold.

What the diff between a CAR and a M4 handguard? The M4 is wider, and for many people it feels better. In theory it cools better, but it isn't an issue for most people.

Looking through the forum, I didnt see any complaints againt Model 1 Sales. How do they compair to ABC? They seem to make many people happy, but you won't see most people comparing them to a Bushmaster or Colt. If you go that route, make sure you get the 5.56 chamber, and spend the extra $20 for chrome lined barrel.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 8:24:36 AM EST
16 inch barrel stainless with 1 in 9 twist A2 FH, possible freefloat. Have you thought about the M4 profile? Just curious, there are pros and cons to each. For what you are stating, I would not go with a SS barrel. The regular will be more than accurate enough.

short or perhaps midlength handguards. I DONT want rails. Go with the regular short handguards like the normal carbine. It has been around forever. No reason to go with rails if you don't want them. The mid-length stuff is a current fad

Flat top upper with flip up front and rear sight, to later have a reflex or illum redicule sight. Flip up rear I can understand, but the front isn't going to bug you if it doesn't fold down. It is also much more sturdy, and cheaper.

Generic Lower with colapsing stock. A shop near hear has a display with 3 or 4 different types including the Magpull and Vltor, I am going to go there and try them out, see which I like best and go withthat. Good idea, it makes a lot more sense to check out what you want first. See if you can order your kit without the stock to save some money.

I want something for primarly 100 yards and closer, but still able to easly accuratly hit out to 300. That isn't going to be a problem with any AR15, they are all pretty accurate, and 300 yards/ meters is nothing.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 8:29:30 AM EST
Chrome plated bolt and carrier, worth it?
No.

Stainless barrels. Other then cost, are there any downsides?
Shorter life than chrome (debatable). Slightly harder to clean.

Barrel fluting, why and wouldnt you get that?
Make barrel lighter.

Flip up rear sights, are there any that function just like A2 rear sight?
No.

What the diff between a CAR and a M4 handguard?
CAR ismore beefy than the std handguard, M4 is even more beefy.

Looking through the forum, I didnt see any complaints againt Model 1 Sales. How do they compair to ABC?
ABC and RRA then everything else is second tier IMO.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 8:32:40 AM EST
no, not really

stainless: some like the color, no real downsides; personally, i'll take a chrome lined bbl anyday

size; i like the m-4

if you dont really care much for precision accuracy, then just go w/ a chroam bbl, no freefloat,
personally, i dont like the vltor (its ugly as a mofo), besides, the origional CAR stock and bushmaster is best imo
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 8:39:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 8:43:12 AM EST by Leisure_Shoot]
Originally Posted By Postal0311:
Hi all, Im now debating getting a M4A4 style rifle. So I have a few question for the resident experts here. Ive allready learned alot just browsing through this forum, but I have a few more questions.

Chrome plated bolt and carrier, worth it?hell no. I'm sure they are better somehow, but how many non-chrome would you wear out before you saw a return on your initail investment for chrome. Unless of course, you go with a stainless barrel, because you want a gun that is shiny. face it. looks matter to some folks. If you like chrome, by all means, knock yourself out

Stainless barrels. Other then cost, are there any downsides? not really. Other than "they're not very tactical looking" I am far from an immaculate gun cleaner, and have not had any problems with regular black barrels

Barrel fluting, why and wouldnt you get that? if you want light weight, get a lower profiled barrel.(one that has been turned down to a smaller diameter) It will be much lighter. If you are planning on shooting in 600 yd matches, I could see how you might want a heavy profile barrel.

Flip up rear sights, are there any that function just like A2 rear sight? I couldn't find one. I settled on LMT solid BUIS (back up iron sight), as I wanted elevation adjustments

What the diff between a CAR and a M4 handguard? you mean length? None. width, the M4 is the fat style.

Looking through the forum, I didnt see any complaints againt Model 1 Sales. How do they compair to ABC? you forgot Rock River I'd go that route. The receivers are impeccable quality, as are the lower parts kit. The finish is as close to perfect as there is. There is a high shelf, so you can't illegally convert it to full auto, if that bothers you. For the whole package; brand recognition, quality, price, reliability, you can not go wrong with RRA. Look to ADCO firearms for RRA stuff. Here is the link ADCO firearms LLC

Heres what Im considering
16 inch barrel stainless with 1 in 9 twist A2 FH, possible freefloat.
short or perhaps midlength handguards. I DONT want rails.
Flat top upper with flip up front and rear sight, to later have a reflex or illum redicule sightmany put relex sights on the front rail... consider that for later, as you said you dont't want rails
Generic Lower with colapsing stock. A shop near hear has a display with 3 or 4 different types including the Magpull and Vltor, I am going to go there and try them out, see which I like best and go withthat.If cost is a consideration, you absolutely, positively cannot go wrong with a RB Precision EE deal for a RRA 6-pos. collapsible stock for $72 which includes a CAR stock wrench. It is a good, very sturdy stock with no wiggle, and nice, comfy cheek weld.
I want something for primarly 100 yards and closer, but still able to easly accuratly hit out to 300.
Im more concerned about durability and relibility then look. I dont need match accuracy, but I would perfer as much as I can get.If you are thinking free float because of this last sentence, I woulldn't worry about it too much. RRA guarantees 1 MOA on all it's rifles and uppers, which aren't free floated. And they guaranatee 3/4 MOA on their varminter, which is free floated, to put the free floating accuracy thingy into perspective. That equals 3/4 inch difference at 300 yds.


BTW, ADCO has an RRA varminter for $838 right now that might be pretty close to your intended rifle. Go to very bottom of this page adcofirearms.com/rockriver/rraffl.cfm?page=rra Unfortunately it is back ordered right now. And, FWIW, I bet they could do a stock swap to a collapsible for nominal cost.

Or the varminter upper is $500, which you could put on your own upper, which you build. It is 1:8 rifling though. ADCO RRA uppers

Link Posted: 9/19/2004 10:03:42 AM EST
Thanks. Much appreciated.

couple more questions

Chrome lined barrel or Chrome Molly barrel. Someone please explain to me the difference.

How durable are the flip up sights? Im not planing to use this gun as a hammer, but I dont want anything to break if its droped or banged around.

How much is there of a weight difference between the heavy barrel, light and M4 barrels in 16 inch?

I have used the flattop upper with stock front post, and optics, and with the red dot I was using(someone elses set up, I forget what it was) the dot was visable indexed right on the tip of the front sight post. And while it worked perfectly find, it annoyed me greatly due to the amount of field of view blocked. I could live with it, but right now, Im looking at the flip up front sights. Im flexable, and thats why Im asking about this stuff now.

I dont have anything against rails, its just, I have no intention of mounting anything other then an optic on this carbine.

I know the AR-15 design can be very accurate, but I cant shoot as good as most of these rifles, and for long range I would perfer a scoped rifle in an larger caliber( I could grab a .308 or .270 easly)

As for a lower, I am going to go with ARCR just which ever one presents it self to me first.

Thanks again all. I will have to think this over some more.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 10:24:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 10:27:58 AM EST by Leisure_Shoot]
Originally Posted By Postal0311:
Thanks. Much appreciated.

couple more questions

Chrome lined barrel or Chrome Molly barrel. Someone please explain to me the difference.
yes, chrome stays cleaner. It is "slipperrier" which keeps crud from sticking. However, it is overkill, just as much of the other stuff we put on AR's. I don't have any chrome barrels, and am not a cleaning nut, and I have been very happy with my chrome moly's. None of the old WWII guns are chromed. So, again, it is an issue of do you have the extra cash for some level of back-up reliability? It's not necessary, but if it helps you sleep better, go for it. I don't mean that in negative way at all, more as a neutral statement.

How durable are the flip up sights? Im not planing to use this gun as a hammer, but I dont want anything to break if its droped or banged around. If you are going to mount a quality optic (like AIMPOINT) which are notoreously indestructable, then you would be backing up an already reliable system. Put the money into a good optic mount. So the question becomes "In the unlikely event you get into a SHTF scenario, will your quality optic break and then you will need your BUIS? Kinda like getting hit by lightning with a winning lottery ticket in your pocket. so, if you are distracted by sights cowitnessing, go another route.

How much is there of a weight difference between the heavy barrel, light and M4 barrels in 16 inch?weight is the key. go lightweight. every little thing adds up.

I have used the flattop upper with stock front post, and optics, and with the red dot I was using(someone elses set up, I forget what it was) the dot was visable indexed right on the tip of the front sight post. And while it worked perfectly find, it annoyed me greatly due to the amount of field of view blocked. I could live with it, but right now, Im looking at the flip up front sights. Im flexable, and thats why Im asking about this stuff now.

I dont have anything against rails, its just, I have no intention of mounting anything other then an optic on this carbine.saves weight. sounds good. you could always add them later, if you need them

I know the AR-15 design can be very accurate, but I cant shoot as good as most of these rifles, and for long range I would perfer a scoped rifle in an larger caliber( I could grab a .308 or .270 easly)

As for a lower, I am going to go with ARCR just which ever one presents it self to me first.
what is an ARCR?
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 10:26:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 10:30:58 AM EST by Postal0311]
Whoops-Edit: Previous post, I ment ABCR not "ARCR". I dont particulary favor any one company. I will just take what ever quality lower I see first.

Hmm price comparision

5.56 chrome lined 16 inch w/ A2 FH. bolt+carrier+charging handle. +A4 upper(No rear sight):

CAR Barrel and HandGuards Model 1 $410

M4 Barrel + M4 Guards Model 1 $460

M4 Barrel + M4 Guards RRA ADCO $460

So other then availability The same thing from RRA and M1S is the same price. Hmm.
Soo very tempting just to order one of each.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 10:31:58 AM EST
remember, anything you buy will cost about $120 extra.
detachable rear sight
detachable front sight
optic mount

Just a reminder, as they add up facter than the upper itself.
I ended up going with a standard front sight base, for that reason.
Still had to buy a rear sight.



The price we pay for our toys.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 10:33:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 10:34:16 AM EST by Leisure_Shoot]
Don't forget Stag lowers... they are supposed to be from the same manufacture as RRA.
And currently, everyone seems sold out of every lower for some reason?
DPMS are well liked, too.
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