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Posted: 1/26/2014 5:50:24 AM EDT
I have built exactly 2 AR15s.
The first went very smooth and every thing works as expected.

The second build is eating my lunch, the bolt wont go into battery and I have tried every thing I can think of.
After about 2 weeks of swapping out parts I talked to a local gunsmith that doesn't do ARs and he said it sounded like a headspace problem.
I have read enough on the forums to know the odds of it being a headspace issue are slim to none, but I reluctantly ordered a go gauge from brownells.
Spent another week of evenings swapping out parts and reading on AR-15.com and finally decided to try the go gauge since I had the barrel of the gun and the bolt disassembled .
The bolt will not lock into battery with the go gauge.

If not a headspace issue what else would keep the bolt from locking on a go gauge?

I am reluctant to return the barrel to the vendor claiming to Have head space issues when the consenus here is that headspace issues dont happen with new AR15 parts.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 5:56:06 AM EDT
Have you checked gas tube and gas key alignment?
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:00:53 AM EDT
Are all the parts brand new? Yeah I would check the gas tube alignment with the gas key on the bolt carrier. Swap out your bolt carrier assemblies and see if they work better in the other uppers.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:01:03 AM EDT
Remove the BCG.  Take the cam pin and bolt out.  Using only the carrier, push into upper and see if it will go all the way forward.  If not then more than likely your carrier is binding on the gas tube.  If that is the case make sure that the gas tube is properly installed in the gas block.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:08:43 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kielal:
Have you checked gas tube and gas key alignment?
View Quote

Yes, I have tried 4 different BCGs , I have swapped out the upper receiver and the lower receiver.
I have installed to 2 other barrels on this upper and they both go into battery fine, I have installed this barrel on the other upper assembly's and it will not go into battery.
With the barrel removed from the upper and the bolt removed from the carrier, and extractor and ejector removed from the bolt it will not go in to battery.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:12:15 AM EDT
When checking headspace, did you remove the ejector and extractor? What is the measurement on the Go gauge? The mil spec for minimum headspace is 1.4646" and the SAAMI .223 REM spec for minimum headspace is 1.4636". Also, did you verify with a caliper that the headspace gauge does indeed measure what is listed on the gauge by measuring from the breech face side of the gauge to the 0.330 datum line. To find the 0.330 datum line, it is at the first shoulder of the cartridge going towards the muzzle.

SAAMI .223 REM Specification
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:15:11 AM EDT
Remove the gas tube and see what happens.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:16:56 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AR-4C:
When checking headspace, did you remove the ejector and extractor? What is the measurement on the Go gauge? The mil spec for minimum headspace is 1.4646" and the SAAMI .223 REM spec for minimum headspace is 1.4636". Also, did you verify with a caliper that the headspace gauge does indeed measure what is listed on the gauge by measuring from the breech face side of the gauge to the 0.330 datum line. To find the 0.330 datum line, it is at the first shoulder of the cartridge going towards the muzzle.

SAAMI .223 REM Specification
View Quote


Yes ejector and extractor removed.

No did not check measurements on go gauge, will do that this afternoon.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:17:09 AM EDT
Did You Clean Barrel And Chamber Good With Chamber Brush?

Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:17:47 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rx7dryver:
Remove the gas tube and see what happens.
View Quote


Barrel is removed from upper , bolt is removed from carrier .
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:20:14 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gch3rd:
Did You Clean Barrel And Chamber Good With Chamber Brush?

View Quote


Yes, many times now, I even went as far as buying new chamber brushes thinking maybe they would scrub harder.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:27:22 AM EDT
Out of curiosity, what is the brand of barrel?
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:33:49 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fright101:
Out of curiosity, what is the brand of barrel?
View Quote

I was hopping to not have to mention names, since I haven't contacted them ., and I am certain they will take care of me if this does turn out to be an issue with the barrel and not some bone head move on my part.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:40:43 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rusty35:

I was hopping to not have to mention names, since I haven't contacted them ., and I am certain they will take care of me if this does turn out to be an issue with the barrel and not some bone head move on my part.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rusty35:
Originally Posted By fright101:
Out of curiosity, what is the brand of barrel?

I was hopping to not have to mention names, since I haven't contacted them ., and I am certain they will take care of me if this does turn out to be an issue with the barrel and not some bone head move on my part.


Let me throw this name out there..ICE Arms.
If it's them..go ahead and throw them to the wolves..they have had many issues with their barrels. I had this exact issue with one of their barrels..2 months later,. I am still waiting on a refund.
If it is another manufacturer..I would try to see if they will take care of it before posting the name.

Was only curious if it was the same company that I had issue with.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:48:17 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fright101:


Let me throw this name out there..ICE Arms.
If it's them..go ahead and throw them to the wolves..they have had many issues with their barrels. I had this exact issue with one of their barrels..2 months later,. I am still waiting on a refund.
If it is another manufacturer..I would try to see if they will take care of it before posting the name.

Was only curious if it was the same company that I had issue with.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fright101:
Originally Posted By Rusty35:
Originally Posted By fright101:
Out of curiosity, what is the brand of barrel?

I was hopping to not have to mention names, since I haven't contacted them ., and I am certain they will take care of me if this does turn out to be an issue with the barrel and not some bone head move on my part.


Let me throw this name out there..ICE Arms.
If it's them..go ahead and throw them to the wolves..they have had many issues with their barrels. I had this exact issue with one of their barrels..2 months later,. I am still waiting on a refund.
If it is another manufacturer..I would try to see if they will take care of it before posting the name.

Was only curious if it was the same company that I had issue with.


No, not ICE , manufacturer and vendor both have good reputations ,I am certain they will take care of me and I will replace with the same barrel with out a doubt.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:49:07 AM EDT
If you take ONLY the bolt and place it in position in the chamber will it go forward and turn/lock in place ????
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:56:05 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DanaHillen:
If you take ONLY the bolt and place it in position in the chamber will it go forward and turn/lock in place ????
View Quote

Yes, and every thing looks and feels smooth to my inexperienced eyes.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 7:08:14 AM EDT
Sounds like it's time to call up the barrel manufacturer if multiple bolts cause it to fail the GO. I hope all the people who don't check headspace read this, if you were out of spec. the other way around it could have been really bad... I see that poll going around where more than 70% of people don't bother to check and it makes me sad.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 7:20:32 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By _Crog:
Sounds like it's time to call up the barrel manufacturer if multiple bolts cause it to fail the GO. I hope all the people who don't check headspace read this, if you were out of spec. the other way around it could have been really bad... I see that poll going around where more than 70% of people don't bother to check and it makes me sad.
View Quote


That poll is what prompted me to post,
If no one else ever has problems then the odds of me doing something wrong is pretty high.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 7:21:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 7:22:40 AM EDT by goatboy_k]
deleted
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 7:27:36 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By goatboy_k:


+1  u might not have the gas tube roll pin actually in the gas tube hole.  the inside of the key is hitting your "extended" gas tube
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By goatboy_k:
Originally Posted By rx7dryver:
Remove the gas tube and see what happens.


+1  u might not have the gas tube roll pin actually in the gas tube hole.  the inside of the key is hitting your "extended" gas tube


With the barrel removed from upper, gas tube removed from barrel , bolt removed from carrier, extractor and ejector removed from bolt, will not go into battery with go gauge or any of the the ammo I have.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 7:50:30 AM EDT
Fecal matter occurs.

Specs or no specs some stuff just gets made wrong. Some specs are wrong. Some parts get to the opposite ends of the allowable variance and don't work with each other. We had many mil drawings the had not been adequately checked for tolerance stackup. Ever try to convince a government worker something the government did was wrong? Yeah, lots of fun.

And yes check headspace. As stated, yours was an obvious problem and prevents locking up and firing. The opposite can be a very unpleasant experience. The manual for the military has very specific steps to check headspace. If it were not important why is it in the manual?
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 8:01:57 AM EDT
It's the barrel extension
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 8:02:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 8:03:57 AM EDT by jacksprat]
sounds like some of the pre-made parts and assembled by you are out of spec

since you did not make the individual parts, there is no build here

as advised swap out the pre-assembled parts out
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 8:09:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 8:11:34 AM EDT by Rusty35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jacksprat:
sounds like some of the pre-made parts and assembled by you are out of spec

since you did not make the individual parts, there is no build here

as advised swap out the pre-assembled parts out
View Quote


Thanks for the help, I will go back and try again using the word assemble rather than build, I can see how that could be causing the problem.

Is there a "Assemble it yourself" sub forum I can post this problem in?
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 10:18:57 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jacksprat:
sounds like some of the pre-made parts and assembled by you are out of spec

since you did not make the individual parts, there is no build here

as advised swap out the pre-assembled parts out
View Quote



Link Posted: 1/27/2014 10:23:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2014 10:25:30 AM EDT by nra1775]
Same problem with multiple BCGs. = Problem is not the BCG.

Other barrels work with this BCG  and receiver = Problem is not the BCG or the receiver

Placing barrel in other uppers with different BCG gives same problem = problem is with the barrel assembly.

You are already eliminated the only other variables.

Congratulations. You won one a very few headspace prizes.
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