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Posted: 3/14/2005 5:03:01 PM EST
The March 21, 2005 Army Times has a short article about a series of weapon systems to replace the M-16, M4, and the M-249. One of the reported favorites is the H&K XM8 series weapons family with a compact model, standard carbine and a designated marksman/squar automatic rifle. The testing was halted to "let the competition be completed". The Army is looking for "a"non developmental family of weapons that are capable of firing U.S. standard M855 and M856" 5.56mm ammunition." The system is tp "replace current weapon systems, including the M4, M16, and selected M9 pistols for the active Army." A lot of the article discusses the problems with the wornout M249's and the need to replace them.

"The light machine gun os a challenge...because of that, we have a level technical playing field for all of the contractors" according to the Army Times. In addition to H&K the other contractors competing are Colt, FN Herstal USA Inc. and Steyer-Mann;icher.

They mention a growth from 33 brigades tp 48 modular brigades and this supports the need for more M249's.

Other info is that the effective range of the proposed models are:
500 meters for the carbine
150 meters for the special compact
600 meters for the designated marksman
600 meters and beyond for the light machine gun

The sighting issues are somewhat interesting in that tje "weapons must be equipped with limited visibility fire control with infared aim light, illuminator and visible red light pointer."

"A formal request for proposal is slated to be issued "on or about " March 23.

The parting comment is "It gives the commander the capability to configure his weapons based on the mission, even with higher reliability than ever before - about four times the reliability over what they had before."

For those of us who still pay taxes, the article has a picture of a GI with a H&K XM8 with the comment that the Army has spent $29 Million testing it. "Final testing is on hold, pending the outcome pf a new competition among smallarms makers."

They also have a very interesting separate article about the M9 pistol. In any case get a copy of the current Army Times, it is a good read.



Link Posted: 3/14/2005 5:10:53 PM EST
More H&K propaganda. XM8=DOA
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 5:36:02 PM EST
First of all, I know this is an AR forum, but the military should really just go back to the 1911 in 45acp. Preferably Kimbers without the stupid firing pin safety. And the M4 is fine the way it is, maybe the 77 grain bullet is the way to go. Then again maybe I'm just talking out of my ass.. Wouldn't be the first time.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:47:30 PM EST
It was going to happen sooner or later. No use in crying about it.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:51:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:58:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 6:58:34 PM EST by olds442tyguy]
I thought H&K no longer has anything to do with the XM8? It seems the mass of info to come out about the XM8 being adopted was from H&K themselves. Then all of the sudden it disappeared for awhile. I would rather see a design like the FN SCAR rifles be used than the Super Soaker 7000 XM8.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:00:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 7:04:16 PM EST by JaketheSnakeOO7]

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
More H&K propaganda. XM8=DOA


Exactly!, that thing performed Terrible at the SCAR trials, Last I heard HK dropped thier exclusive owner ship rights of it. The FN SCAR kicked it's ass and then some. Hell I'll bet the standard Colt M4 or M16 would have performed just as well or better than the XM8 did in the trials.
The only reason people like them is the ability to teach new soilders more easily. But in all reguards its not hard to teach them to use the basic M16. The reason the gov't isn't too happy about it is the fact that you can't simply place optics on it like the current M4s or M16. If you've owned anything made by HK and wanted to place an optic on it, you know what I'm talkin about. You gotta go back to the store and pick up a expensive mount for it, with the HK guy saying "gotcha!". Last I read HK had completely sold off thier exclusive rights to it.
Look out for the XCR or FN SCAR, and the M16 to do this trick: 5.56 nato to 6.8 SPC TaDahhhhhh!!!!!!

But ya know one can't help to wonder?? Armalite orginally sold thier plans/rights for the AR to Colt. Then Colt marketed and improved it more and looked what happend to it. I'm sure with new changes it could be a great assualt rifle. Am I wrong in thinking or wondering this?
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:01:51 PM EST
Me too.
But I like the design - Stoner was good at what he did and the AR18 is nice!!!
I just hate what HK went and did with it. So use less, so hard to justify, huge cost for very very little logistic benifit. I don't even know if there's a performance benifit (GenIssue 12.5" bbl????). And HK's second or third main point now is the mag design of the AR is flawed. In theory yeah, but not any more it ain't.

I say it never happens. Our next rifle is a Garand with a detachable mag and scout mount, FORGED TOO!
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:08:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 7:42:16 PM EST by Combat_Jack]

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
It was going to happen sooner or later. No use in crying about it.




Im not crying about it. I just happen to have a low opinion of the G36/XM8 design, and HK in general




The G36 (of which the XM-8 was derived) is an Ar-18, which the military liked a lot. It was produced just after the Army invested millions in the M16. It's only true success was with the IRA, and some militaries in SE Asia.

Some Irishmen wrote a song about it Something about "me little Armalite" or something similar.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:34:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 7:35:08 PM EST by Variablebinary]

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
It was going to happen sooner or later. No use in crying about it.




Im not crying about it. I just happen to have a low opinion of the G36/XM8 design, and HK in general





Lucky for you the HK XM8 is only the first rifle in a series of rifles to try and score the contract for next miltary gun (M8 rifle?). Kid gloves are coming off and big dogs are coming out to play. Remember how many weapons and companies took part in the XM9 trials. This is sure to be even bigger. I personally cant wait to see the various designs and what gets adopted...and most importantly, what gets sold to the public...
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 3:52:40 AM EST
$29 million for a glorified G36? And all this time I didn't think you could make a living selling guns...
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:31:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 5:33:45 AM EST by ICU]
"500 meters for the carbine
150 meters for the special compact
600 meters for the designated marksman"

So w/ the DM setup you are only extending your range by a 100M. I'd like to see how they came up w/ these numbers. Why dont they just flush this turd already. -Justin
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