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Posted: 10/28/2009 1:28:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2009 1:30:21 PM EST by ED_P]
I've owned a number of uppers over the years, mostly Bushmaster, and from a cosmetic standpoint they've always been clean and smooth.

I just got a Noveske N4 Upper from Bravo Company tonight, and it has some serious scratches inside the receiver, tooling marks, and odd rough surfaces on the outside of the receiver. I'd expect this if I brought a Century Arms AR, but was a real first disappointment in a company I'd read nothing but good about here. Probably no affect on function, but it's discouraging. If this was a factory 2nd blemish model, I could understand its condition.













Link Posted: 10/28/2009 1:30:54 PM EST
Contact BravoCompany. They'll make it right.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 1:32:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 1:35:46 PM EST
Pull the barrel and put it on a MUR-1a now that they are readily available.

Link Posted: 10/28/2009 1:43:07 PM EST
Contact BCM. They will make it right if you're unhappy.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 2:21:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2009 2:22:59 PM EST by hotbiggun42]
I bought one from BCM also and just checked it over and looks good here .The upper and lower have different finishes but no biggy .My rifle is a keeper . BTW i have put more than a few sracthes on it aleady dam it
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 2:26:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigbore:
oh my goodness, the horror.


There isn't any sarcasim in there, right?
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 2:30:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By 3BP:
Originally Posted By bigbore:
oh my goodness, the horror.


There isn't any sarcasim in there, right?


I'd say yes. The scratches on the inside won't matter and the outside is meh.

The OP did say he knew it would not affect function and that is all that matters to a lot of us.

Cosmetics are great and all but after a few range trips the glow wears off and it's a tool.
Unless it is a tool from the begining that again all that matters is function.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 2:31:58 PM EST
That doesnt look bad to me. But now is not a good time to be buying. Companies are just catching up from the rush and quality is slipping.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 2:32:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By 3BP:
Originally Posted By bigbore:
oh my goodness, the horror.


There isn't any sarcasim in there, right?


Not sarcasm, I call it something else. Mr. BigBore, if you were to buy a brand new car, and just as you take delivery of it, someone runs a key down the door, I certainly hope you think its no big deal.



Link Posted: 10/28/2009 2:35:50 PM EST
I know BCM sells Noveske blemished uppers, maybe they accidently sent you one of those instead of a new one. Or maybe you ordered a blemished one by mistake. Just a thought
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 2:38:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 2:38:48 PM EST
Unless the "scratches" in the upper are actually scratches (can you feel them with your fingernail or are they just marks?) Then I wouldnt worry about it. The top most part of the upper with the tooling marks is no biggie, since only the charging handles touches it and it gets shiney real fast anyways.

The outside IMHO looks ok....

Regardless, its YOUR upper, so if you want to send it back, Im sure noveske, BCM or both will take care of you.

BTW, WTF are you doing ordering a noveske upper from BCM when they have their own excellent uppers available?
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 2:44:21 PM EST
BCM has a blowout sale on Noveske barreled uppers .That is why i bought from them
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 2:52:22 PM EST
Wow those marks look truly horrendous. I would report all involved to the Better Business Bureau.

Please post a macro shot at 25X zoom to simulate what the marks look like to a Bald Eagle perched 3" from your upper.

Link Posted: 10/28/2009 2:56:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 2:57:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By boomfab:
Wow those marks look truly horrendous. I would report all involved to the Better Business Bureau.

Please post a macro shot at 25X zoom to simulate what the marks look like to a Bald Eagle perched 3" from your upper.



Funny! i happen to agree with the OP you Buy a Noveske you Should not get gouges and tool marks on the finished product.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 2:57:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By 3BP:
Originally Posted By bigbore:
oh my goodness, the horror.


There isn't any sarcasim in there, right?



I'm totally serious. I first thought it was a Halloween nightmare. Holy smokes, if it weren't for modern technology, and the 10X zoom on the digital camera he
may have put thousands of rounds through that gun without ever knowing those cosmetic blemishes were only INCHES from his face.


Though I didn't plan on returning this upper, I'm glad I brought it from a company that would take it back, and not give me an attitude.





Link Posted: 10/28/2009 3:00:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By ED_P:

Mr. BigBore, if you were to buy a brand new car, and just as you take delivery of it, someone runs a key down the door, I certainly hope you think its no big deal.



Its more like buying a new car, looking up into the wheel well and seeing a molding seam in the mud flap.

What was the point of starting this thread? If you're unhappy, call who you bought it from and take it up with them. There is no reason to drag Bravo and Novekes names through the mud for no reason.


I'm not dragging Bravo through the mud, I've brought items from them many times. I find great value here when buying a product to get a sampling of their overall quality. This Noveske upper is more beat up than any other new upper I've ever brought. I wanted to hear if anyone else had this issue.



Link Posted: 10/28/2009 3:03:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By ED_P:

Mr. BigBore, if you were to buy a brand new car, and just as you take delivery of it, someone runs a key down the door, I certainly hope you think its no big deal.



Its more like buying a new car, looking up into the wheel well and seeing a molding seam in the mud flap.

What was the point of starting this thread? If you're unhappy, call who you bought it from and take it up with them. There is no reason to drag Bravo and Novekes names through the mud for no reason.


I kind of agree with you I bought my Noveske Lower from PK Firearms it was advetised as not being seconds .When i recieved it it had a gouge and very small pot marks on one side . hell I could have bought a second from 44 mag cheaper .I did call PK who told me it was noveskes problem it took Noveske 3-4 days to get back to me by then I just figured i would use it . Not trying to drag anyones name through the mud since they seem to be doing a fine job of it themselves these days.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 3:06:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2009 3:18:50 PM EST by bigbore]
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 3:08:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 3:09:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By Marksman14:
Unless the "scratches" in the upper are actually scratches (can you feel them with your fingernail or are they just marks?) .


The scratches inside the upper are gouges into the metal, if they were just marks I would have thought nothing of it- just the bolt that was put in to test fire the barrel.



Link Posted: 10/28/2009 3:11:28 PM EST
Those are imaginary blemishes since everyone knows Novenske pretty much make the best products in the world..........I kid, I kid
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 3:16:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
Originally Posted By SheaD:
I know BCM sells Noveske blemished uppers, maybe they accidently sent you one of those instead of a new one. Or maybe you ordered a blemished one by mistake. Just a thought


We have NEVER sold blem Noveske products.


Ed_P, - if you need anything from us, please send us an email at your convenience.


Thanks!




Thank you for your response, but the issue is cosmetic gouging and not functional in nature. There are a number of minor linear gouges in one contact area where the bolt carrier runs, but they are all concave and should have no effect on the rifles function. I really just wanted to find out if anyone else had similiar tooling marks and gouges on their upper.

Link Posted: 10/28/2009 3:17:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 3:27:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigbore:
oh my goodness, the horror.


Link Posted: 10/28/2009 3:31:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2009 3:34:33 PM EST by hotbiggun42]
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:

I did call PK who told me it was noveskes problem it took Noveske 3-4 days to get back to me by then I just figured i would use it . Not trying to drag anyones name through the mud since they seem to be doing a fine job of it themselves these days.


This is funny and interesting at the same time. Noveske doesnt make/anodize the receivers, they just put their name on them. Noveske knows the parts are quality and will work just fine. Noveske probably buys his receivers from the same place as Rock River, Stag, WOA etc, but because it says Noveske on it people expect something extra. Were someone to buy the exact same receiver from WOA, only without the Noveske stamp they would probably be perfectly happy.
Just an observation, and why I have no interest in selling the "uber" brand names. When all the parts are mechanically the same, its so much easer to please customers when they dont have unjustified high expectations.


I hear what you are saying but i paid extra for a reciever that was not seconds normally these small blemishes are not a big deal to me and still isnt a big deal .But if someone pays extra for a product that is supposed to be hand picked i would expect to get what i paid for wouldnt you.

BTW Bigbore there is not much price difference between a RRA lower and a Noveske Lower .I just happen to want one that matched my upper.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 3:46:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2009 3:47:21 PM EST by bigbore]
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 4:08:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:

I hear what you are saying but i paid extra for a reciever that was not seconds normally these small blemishes are not a big deal to me and still isnt a big deal .But if someone pays extra for a product that is supposed to be hand picked i would expect to get what i paid for wouldnt you.

BTW Bigbore there is not much price difference between a RRA lower and a Noveske Lower .I just happen to want one that matched my upper.


OK, this is market research here. Why would you pay extra for a name, when its exactly the same mechanically/material/functionally the same as another that cost less because its an "off" name?

What are realistic expectations of mass produced, interchangeable, parts? Why does "hand picked" matter, and why does "fit and finish" come up describing these parts? The are military style weapons, Perazzi skeet guns.

I think the internet "tier" bullshit has really thrown a lot of people off. If you track the threads complaining about "fit and finish" its usually about the tier one guns, while its rare to hear complaints about the lower tire guns. Is that because people expect too much from the tier one guns?


It's because their expectations are of a superficial nature. Most want a gun that looks the part. The appearance is far more important to most than the actual function.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 4:14:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2009 4:53:45 PM EST by RagnarDanneskjold]
I'm with the OP; not a big deal, but some of those blems would be a let down if I was the one paying.

Given the OP's mild disappointment, I'm surprised at the response he's getting from folks here. Merely raising a question or noting a flaw in a product or service that comes from certain outfits seems to elicit a lot attitude.

Are some brands so sacred that you can't post photos, on a technical message board no less, without being accused of mudslinging or being superficial poser?

I hate the "good enough" attitude that excuses mediocrity.


Link Posted: 10/28/2009 4:19:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:

I hear what you are saying but i paid extra for a reciever that was not seconds normally these small blemishes are not a big deal to me and still isnt a big deal .But if someone pays extra for a product that is supposed to be hand picked i would expect to get what i paid for wouldnt you.

BTW Bigbore there is not much price difference between a RRA lower and a Noveske Lower .I just happen to want one that matched my upper.


OK, this is market research here. Why would you pay extra for a name, when its exactly the same mechanically/material/functionally the same as another that cost less because its an "off" name?

What are realistic expectations of mass produced, interchangeable, parts? Why does "hand picked" matter, and why does "fit and finish" come up describing these parts? The are military style weapons, Perazzi skeet guns.

I think the internet "tier" bullshit has really thrown a lot of people off. If you track the threads complaining about "fit and finish" its usually about the tier one guns, while its rare to hear complaints about the lower tire guns. Is that because people expect too much from the tier one guns?


This. People asking where a particular rifle falls on "the chart" and all that b.s. "Frankenguns won't work in a class" "Hobby guns are the suxors" WTF!?!

MOST of the parts are basically the same. Put them together right, make sure you have a setup thats proven to run, and your GTG.

Thats what you pay Noveske for, they know the setup runs, and goes the distance, and is put together with top performing parts, good barrel/bolt etc. Your not paying for it to be somehow nicer
when all AR's are built the same way from the same basic two pieces. Hand selected? Really?

Do you sample your AR's bouquet before firing? Do you admire the fine figured grain of the polymers?
If so, STOP.

Go outside and fucking shoot, thats what it's for, and you paid Noveske to make sure it keeps shooting. IT WILL
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 4:21:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2009 4:23:45 PM EST by ED_P]
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:

I hear what you are saying but i paid extra for a reciever that was not seconds normally these small blemishes are not a big deal to me and still isnt a big deal .But if someone pays extra for a product that is supposed to be hand picked i would expect to get what i paid for wouldnt you.

BTW Bigbore there is not much price difference between a RRA lower and a Noveske Lower .I just happen to want one that matched my upper.


OK, this is market research here. Why would you pay extra for a name, when its exactly the same mechanically/material/functionally the same as another that cost less because its an "off" name?

What are realistic expectations of mass produced, interchangeable, parts? Why does "hand picked" matter, and why does "fit and finish" come up describing these parts? The are military style weapons, Perazzi skeet guns.

I think the internet "tier" bullshit has really thrown a lot of people off. If you track the threads complaining about "fit and finish" its usually about the tier one guns, while its rare to hear complaints about the lower tire guns. Is that because people expect too much from the tier one guns?


It's because their expectations are of a superficial nature. Most want a gun that looks the part. The appearance is far more important to most than the actual function.


I expected something that didn't have horizontal gouges and tooling bit marks skipping along for several inches in different areas.

As a baseline for comparison, I've had a number of uppers over the years, no Colts or Les Baers- mostly "2nd tier" Bushmaster uppers. They were all smooth and cleanly machined inside and out.

This was my baseline. The condition of this upper was a first for me, and I wanted to share, as many others here share their consumer purchase experiences.

I disagree with the statement that most find appearance more important than actual function. Apperance (and moreso a poor appearance) can in many instances be an indicator of the quality steps a customer is not aware of.






Link Posted: 10/28/2009 4:22:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 4:27:07 PM EST
I've seen Colt's that look worse.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 4:27:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By Crashtastic:
I've seen Colt's that look worse.


Evert time I've held one.
(thats many times btw)
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 4:28:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:


It's because their expectations are of a superficial nature. Most want a gun that looks the part. The appearance is far more important to most than the actual function.


I know appearance is what's important. More are concerned with how Costas gun is set up instead of figuring out what actually works best for them. Picture threads of whats popular determine how most people configure their guns. Its boring to find what works and stick with it on your own.

But if appearance is important, both tier 1 and 3 receivers still all look the same.....



I went down that same road when I bought my first AR and the several that followed. It took a wile to figure out what actually worked for me and not what looked cool in pictures. My rifle is very boring compared to the ones that look awesome in the picture threads. But it's built using LMT and Colt parts so it runs like a top.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 4:36:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:

I hear what you are saying but i paid extra for a reciever that was not seconds normally these small blemishes are not a big deal to me and still isnt a big deal .But if someone pays extra for a product that is supposed to be hand picked i would expect to get what i paid for wouldnt you.

BTW Bigbore there is not much price difference between a RRA lower and a Noveske Lower .I just happen to want one that matched my upper.


OK, this is market research here. Why would you pay extra for a name, when its exactly the same mechanically/material/functionally the same as another that cost less because its an "off" name?

What are realistic expectations of mass produced, interchangeable, parts? Why does "hand picked" matter, and why does "fit and finish" come up describing these parts? The are military style weapons, Perazzi skeet guns.

I think the internet "tier" bullshit has really thrown a lot of people off. If you track the threads complaining about "fit and finish" its usually about the tier one guns, while its rare to hear complaints about the lower tire guns. Is that because people expect too much from the tier one guns?


Perhaps.

At Noveski prices some people may expect perfection. Buying a Noveski AR is like buying a Les Bauer 1911 or a Browning over under. The high price tag comes with high expectations for some people.

I think if you want a AR that is cosmetically perfect you would be best suited to go to a store that will let you inspect before you buy. Mail order is always a crap shoot.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 4:46:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:

I hear what you are saying but i paid extra for a reciever that was not seconds normally these small blemishes are not a big deal to me and still isnt a big deal .But if someone pays extra for a product that is supposed to be hand picked i would expect to get what i paid for wouldnt you.

BTW Bigbore there is not much price difference between a RRA lower and a Noveske Lower .I just happen to want one that matched my upper.


OK, this is market research here. Why would you pay extra for a name, when its exactly the same mechanically/material/functionally the same as another that cost less because its an "off" name?

What are realistic expectations of mass produced, interchangeable, parts? Why does "hand picked" matter, and why does "fit and finish" come up describing these parts? The are military style weapons, Perazzi skeet guns.

I think the internet "tier" bullshit has really thrown a lot of people off. If you track the threads complaining about "fit and finish" its usually about the tier one guns, while its rare to hear complaints about the lower tire guns. Is that because people expect too much from the tier one guns?


It's because their expectations are of a superficial nature. Most want a gun that looks the part. The appearance is far more important to most than the actual function.


Except when it is a non "tier 1" gun people use it as evidence that the MFGer sucks and can't make a good product. If it's a "tier 1" then it doesn't really matter. It's only cosmetic. Screw that, I don't care which one I buy If I'm going to drop over $900 on essentially less than $10 in metal that has been formed into various shapes I expect it to be flawless. If it's going to have scratches, gouges ect in it, they will be put there by me.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 4:55:15 PM EST
The horror................. the horror.................

That chipped edge on the inside of the ejection port looks pretty severe, and the scratching and tool marks looks like someone in assembly horked up big time by grabbing a reject instead of a good upper. I feel for you, man. Like others have said, I am sure that they will not give you any trouble about exchange after they see the photos. I would think that Bravo Company would be embarassed by the condition of this and will do what they can to make it right for you ASAP.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 5:16:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2009 5:18:47 PM EST by Cold]
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 5:24:54 PM EST
Looks good to me. Some of you people fret over the most absurd shit.

FUNCTION > FORM
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 5:32:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2009 5:33:30 PM EST by ChromeLined]
I think the entire point is this wether the OP is happy or not happy does anyone fucking get to call and contact the vendor with concerns before going of on a tangent here.Thats my only fucking gripe.If it was a safety issue its one thing to get the word out right off but shit like this...call and contact the vendor before bitching here.I understand Noveske products cost alot but ultimately its a tool to be used unless most shooters just like to ooh and ahh their firearms instead of shooting them.If i have to use a weapon to defend life,family,property the ones on the receiving end are not gonna bitch about how my weapoin looks there gonna be looking to get away from the aimed fury coming out the buisness end of it.This place gets like a friggen hen house at times.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 5:35:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2009 5:40:37 PM EST by 775Patriot]
Damn, you'd think the op pissed in some peoples Wheaties or something. What a sore subject. What ever happen to "you get what you pay for" instead of I payed premium but.....I guess it will do. F*** that, you pay a premium price you should get a premium product. I'm not saying that it's going to function any better than something you could have paid less for for something similar but, you expect a certain level of quality in the function, fit and finish when you pay for it!

That being said, Bravo Company has posted that they would take care of it. Great customer service and the ability to offer it to everyone, no matter how picky or not. Another great quality to look for when you are parting ways with your hard earned cash. JMHO.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 5:43:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2009 5:44:02 PM EST by EHilderbrand]
I understand both angles, but the reality is, what the OP is complaining about is literally completely inane and insignificant.

The "blems" do not affect the function of the weapon, I can assure that. The reality is, if you shoot your guns hard, the finish and "blems" aren't going to matter. Not one bit! Mount an optic, let it slam into your gear, let it hit a barrier, let it fall in the mud, let it fall on rocks. Who gives a shit? If you actually use the firearm in a manner for which it is intended, then a few blems are going to be the least of your worries.

There is nothing wrong with your Noveske upper. Nothing.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 5:49:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2009 5:56:42 PM EST by 3678barnes]
The marks would be insignificant to me. But, you spent the money. If you are not happy, send it back. Keep in mind that a few trips to the range or attendance at a good carbine course is going to leave worse marks. But again, it's your money so you make the call. I do believe some of the response you are getting could be avoided if you tried to get satisfaction from Bravo and/or Noveske before you posted on the internet. Or, perhaps you should stick with Bushmaster if you have been happy with their appearance.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 5:58:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By ED_P:

Mr. BigBore, if you were to buy a brand new car, and just as you take delivery of it, someone runs a key down the door, I certainly hope you think its no big deal.



Its more like buying a new car, looking up into the wheel well and seeing a molding seam in the mud flap.

What was the point of starting this thread? If you're unhappy, call who you bought it from and take it up with them. There is no reason to drag Bravo and Novekes names through the mud for no reason.


/agree

yeah, give em a call and they should take care of it for ya
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 6:04:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:

I hear what you are saying but i paid extra for a reciever that was not seconds normally these small blemishes are not a big deal to me and still isnt a big deal .But if someone pays extra for a product that is supposed to be hand picked i would expect to get what i paid for wouldnt you.

BTW Bigbore there is not much price difference between a RRA lower and a Noveske Lower .I just happen to want one that matched my upper.


OK, this is market research here. Why would you pay extra for a name, when its exactly the same mechanically/material/functionally the same as another that cost less because its an "off" name?

What are realistic expectations of mass produced, interchangeable, parts? Why does "hand picked" matter, and why does "fit and finish" come up describing these parts? The are military style weapons, Perazzi skeet guns.

I think the internet "tier" bullshit has really thrown a lot of people off. If you track the threads complaining about "fit and finish" its usually about the tier one guns, while its rare to hear complaints about the lower tire guns. Is that because people expect too much from the tier one guns?




I really like my rifle the finish on the upper and lower does not match which is no big deal .I Could have bought a Noveske Lower with blemishes for $140 i believe that is less than a RRA Lower but i chose to spend and extra $60 for a Noveske lower that was listed as one without blemishes I did not get what i paid for .It doesnt mean i dislike my rifle any less it just means i Didnt get the value i paid extra for . And I do read thread after thread of people complaining about their lower teir rifles.

Big bore you sell RRA why do they put non milspec parts on their rifles I dont get it I bought a 6 position RRA stock kit from you I didnt realize they were comercail tubes until i tried to swap a stock i already owned that kind of pisses me off . Why not use standard parts ?
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 6:08:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:


It's because their expectations are of a superficial nature. Most want a gun that looks the part. The appearance is far more important to most than the actual function.


I know appearance is what's important. More are concerned with how Costas gun is set up instead of figuring out what actually works best for them. Picture threads of whats popular determine how most people configure their guns. Its boring to find what works and stick with it on your own.

But if appearance is important, both tier 1 and 3 receivers still all look the same.....





Function was not the concern of the OP, it was the blemishes. What is it with you guys ? Why the attitude towards someone who works hard for their money and expects a quality product from a top tier company ? Please stop condeming others because you have lower standards, Bigbore you do this quit a bit and as a possible future customer your turning me off.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 6:13:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By 1MRBEAN:
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:


It's because their expectations are of a superficial nature. Most want a gun that looks the part. The appearance is far more important to most than the actual function.


I know appearance is what's important. More are concerned with how Costas gun is set up instead of figuring out what actually works best for them. Picture threads of whats popular determine how most people configure their guns. Its boring to find what works and stick with it on your own.

But if appearance is important, both tier 1 and 3 receivers still all look the same.....





Function was not the concern of the OP, it was the blemishes. What is it with you guys ? Why the attitude towards someone who works hard for their money and expects a quality product from a top tier company ? Please stop condeming others because you have lower standards, Bigbore you do this quit a bit and as a possible future customer your turning me off.



bigbore has a right to his opinion and he is very highly reguarded on this site for his gunsmithing skills .Although we have a difference of opinion i am still going to be using his services on a couple barrels in the near future.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 8:00:22 PM EST
Here is an article that I happened to write today. Though it would seem to be applicable any day here.

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