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Posted: 5/19/2013 8:38:58 PM EDT
I picked up a new Daniel Defense DDM4v4, 16" 1:7 twist last week. I put a brand new Nikon p-223 scope on it also. I clean and lubed it before going out the first time. I used a few different types of ammo also.

Federal XM193F 55gr 5.56 Brown Box,
Winchester 55gr 5.56 white box,
Winchester Varmint X Ammunition 223 Remington 55 Grain Polymer Tip.

I put a target at 25yrds just to get it on paper. The very first shot was about 2" to the left and 1" below bullseye. I figured this was going to be pretty easy.  I shot again and couldnt find anything on the target so i walked out to take a closer look and NOTHING. I go back and shoot 3 more times and only 1 hit about 10" below and 10" to the right of center. First thought was scope was loose, so I checked mounts and rings but all tight. I changed ammo and tried again. I shot about 5 rounds of win556 and only 3 hit the target, which is 3 feet high and 2 feet wide. I tried the win223 and same results. Out of the 10 shots that did hit the paper about 4 were keyholing.

I still thought it had to be the scope so I returned it back to Academy Sports and picked up another brand new Nikon p-223. I dont have any iron sights or mbuis, only a scope. I cleaned my rifle when I got home and started checking everything that I knew to check. The barrel nut was tight, the flash hider was tight, the crown inside the flash hider look clean and free of burs, barrel was spotless.  I did not take off the flash hider off to check threads or the crown behind it. I did not find anything out of the ordinary.

I went back out the next day to see if cleaning it again and if a new scope would fix my problem, I used same brands of ammo but different boxes. This time i set the target at 15 yards to get on paper. The grouping was the whole 2ft wide target and some still managed to miss it. I am a good shot normally. I had my father (he shoots 22lr competitions) shoot as well and same results.  We are dumb founded at the results. I emailed and called DD but the person that does the warranty department was out til monday. I am waiting for a phone call or email from them.

Maybe i missed something that yall know to check! I have never heard of anyone having this problem with a DDM4. I hear that DD customer service is great.

Please school me on my situation. Thanks Kyle
Link Posted: 5/19/2013 8:45:01 PM EDT
1/7 twist barrel wants heavier bullets than the old 55 grain..try 62 or heavier. It is not giving enough spin to stabilize the lighter bullet, so flies like a football "dead duck" style instead of a nice spiral.
Some will shoot the 55 ok, but yours does  not.
Link Posted: 5/19/2013 9:15:52 PM EDT
Quoted:
1/7 twist barrel wants heavier bullets than the old 55 grain..try 62 or heavier. It is not giving enough spin to stabilize the lighter bullet, so flies like a football "dead duck" style instead of a nice spiral.
Some will shoot the 55 ok, but yours does  not.


I understand that 55gr isnt the optimal weight bullet and not the best gouping for 1:7 twist but not being about to hit a 2ft wide by 3ft high target at 15 yards?

Link Posted: 5/19/2013 9:26:32 PM EDT
1/7 twist will stabilize a 55 grain just fine and it should at least hit that big ass target the OP is aiming at.  OP you should try to bore sight the rifle at 25yds before taking any shots.

from Molon

BS Busters 002

“55 grain bullets are unstable/overstabilized/inaccurate/less-lethal when fired from a barrel with a 1:7” twist.”

link
Link Posted: 5/19/2013 9:34:24 PM EDT
I have some Federal 5.56 62gr XM855 Lake City ammo that i will try tomorrow and will let yall know the out come! Hopefully that will solve the problem!
Link Posted: 5/19/2013 10:02:03 PM EDT
If you're shooting keyholes and patterns at 15 yards with 55 gr bullets then there's something wrong and it needs to go back to DD. Shooting heavier bullets won't improve it any.

My Colt 6920 will easily hit the 500 yd steel with 55 gr fmj if I dope the wind correctly.

Bummer, but Daniel Defense will take care of you.
Link Posted: 5/19/2013 11:26:18 PM EDT
Quoted:
1/7 twist barrel wants heavier bullets than the old 55 grain..try 62 or heavier. It is not giving enough spin to stabilize the lighter bullet, so flies like a football "dead duck" style instead of a nice spiral.
Some will shoot the 55 ok, but yours does  not.


You got it sorta backwards and all jacked up.

1/7 will "over stabilize" the lighter, faster bullets, but you should still be able to get functional accuracy.  

I have seen bullets rip apart from the rotational forces, but those were hp's at 50 grns.
Link Posted: 5/20/2013 7:20:37 AM EDT
Barrel is overbore?  Hard to believe that would be possible, but whatever it is, DD needs that gun back.
Link Posted: 5/20/2013 7:49:51 AM EDT
Quoted:
1/7 twist barrel wants heavier bullets than the old 55 grain..try 62 or heavier. It is not giving enough spin to stabilize the lighter bullet, so flies like a football "dead duck" style instead of a nice spiral.
Some will shoot the 55 ok, but yours does  not.


Ignore this post.

Barrel nut tight?

I'd send it back if its shooting wild and keyhole'n.  that usually points to a crown/muzzle defect. You could cut it back to 14.5, pin/weld a flash hider and it might fix it.
Link Posted: 5/20/2013 12:54:52 PM EDT
Well I finally got in touch with DD today and they are going to pay for the return of my M4 to check it out. Now for the long wait too begin!
Link Posted: 5/20/2013 2:51:00 PM EDT
My WOA 1/7 shot fine with 55's. Something else is wrong..
Link Posted: 5/20/2013 7:48:38 PM EDT
Quoted:
My WOA 1/7 shot fine with 55's. Something else is wrong..


To what does "WOA" refer, please?

GSM
Link Posted: 5/20/2013 8:12:23 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
My WOA 1/7 shot fine with 55's. Something else is wrong..


To what does "WOA" refer, please?

GSM


White Oak Armament. They make some VERY accurate AR barrels.

Something is seriously wrong with your rifle, it needs to go back to DD.
Link Posted: 5/20/2013 8:12:28 PM EDT
WOA = White Oak Armament
Link Posted: 5/20/2013 8:19:51 PM EDT
Quoted:
If you're shooting keyholes and patterns at 15 yards with 55 gr bullets then there's something wrong and it needs to go back to DD. Shooting heavier bullets won't improve it any.

My Colt 6920 will easily hit the 500 yd steel with 55 gr fmj if I dope the wind correctly.

Bummer, but Daniel Defense will take care of you.


this
Link Posted: 5/21/2013 1:55:26 PM EDT
Quoted:
If you're shooting keyholes and patterns at 15 yards with 55 gr bullets then there's something wrong and it needs to go back to DD. Shooting heavier bullets won't improve it any.

My Colt 6920 will easily hit the 500 yd steel with 55 gr fmj if I dope the wind correctly.

Bummer, but Daniel Defense will take care of you.


THIS!!!
Link Posted: 5/25/2013 6:55:59 PM EDT
First theory is a loose barrel but.  Second theory is a boogered up muzzle crown.  Or vice versa. Or how did you clean it?  Did you try to push the chamber brush through the barrel?  Just asking not accusing. Daniel defense is the best source to fix that rifle if it's brand new though. DD barrels are awesome.  I've been around 3 that shoot xm193(55gr) that you can certainly cover with a nickle if not a penny.  Everybody can turn out a dud once in a blue moon.  
Link Posted: 6/10/2013 7:15:01 AM EDT
Just an update for anyone that cares! Daniel Defense finally called me back with results from testing my rifle! They said the guy that did the test shot 7rds and only 5 rds even hit the paper and the ones that did hit were scattered all over! He said it was definitely the barrel and they would replace it and have it shipped back tomorrow! Great customer sevice, absolutely no money from me during the process, all shipping and repairs were on them! Now let's just hope it will shoot correct when I get it back!
Link Posted: 6/10/2013 8:07:38 AM EDT
good to hear
Link Posted: 6/10/2013 8:19:24 AM EDT
Quoted:
Just an update for anyone that cares! Daniel Defense finally called me back with results from testing my rifle! They said the guy that did the test shot 7rds and only 5 rds even hit the paper and the ones that did hit were scattered all over! He said it was definitely the barrel and they would replace it and have it shipped back tomorrow! Great customer sevice, absolutely no money from me during the process, all shipping and repairs were on them! Now let's just hope it will shoot correct when I get it back!


great to hear!
Link Posted: 6/10/2013 9:12:23 AM EDT
Daniel defense is awesome.
Link Posted: 6/10/2013 12:55:40 PM EDT
Great!

While I've never done business with them there is a very good reason why they have such a sterling reputation around here...outstanding customer service! And don't worry about the new barrel. They git this gun back and they sure as hell don't want to fix it again
Link Posted: 6/10/2013 3:25:44 PM EDT
Loose barrels will not cause keyholing.  They will scatter stabilized bullets all over the countryside, however..

OP:  WHAT was the cause of the problem with the barrel exactly?
Link Posted: 6/10/2013 3:32:47 PM EDT
Quoted:

OP:  WHAT was the cause of the problem with the barrel exactly?


They didnt say exactly, all they said was that it was the barrel and they are going to replace it!
Link Posted: 6/11/2013 8:41:51 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:

OP:  WHAT was the cause of the problem with the barrel exactly?


They didnt say exactly, all they said was that it was the barrel and they are going to replace it!


I'd really like to know what the problem was.

Maybe ask them directly again?



Link Posted: 7/12/2013 1:42:56 AM EDT
any updates?
Link Posted: 8/22/2013 11:12:56 AM EDT
How does the rifle shoot now with the new barrel?
Link Posted: 8/23/2013 3:16:17 PM EDT
Quoted:
I picked up a new Daniel Defense DDM4v4, 16" 1:7 twist last week. I put a brand new Nikon p-223 scope on it also. I clean and lubed it before going out the first time. I used a few different types of ammo also.

Federal XM193F 55gr 5.56 Brown Box,
Winchester 55gr 5.56 white box,
Winchester Varmint X Ammunition 223 Remington 55 Grain Polymer Tip.

I put a target at 25yrds just to get it on paper. The very first shot was about 2" to the left and 1" below bullseye. I figured this was going to be pretty easy.  I shot again and couldnt find anything on the target so i walked out to take a closer look and NOTHING. I go back and shoot 3 more times and only 1 hit about 10" below and 10" to the right of center. First thought was scope was loose, so I checked mounts and rings but all tight. I changed ammo and tried again. I shot about 5 rounds of win556 and only 3 hit the target, which is 3 feet high and 2 feet wide. I tried the win223 and same results. Out of the 10 shots that did hit the paper about 4 were keyholing.

I still thought it had to be the scope so I returned it back to Academy Sports and picked up another brand new Nikon p-223. I dont have any iron sights or mbuis, only a scope. I cleaned my rifle when I got home and started checking everything that I knew to check. The barrel nut was tight, the flash hider was tight, the crown inside the flash hider look clean and free of burs, barrel was spotless.  I did not take off the flash hider off to check threads or the crown behind it. I did not find anything out of the ordinary.

I went back out the next day to see if cleaning it again and if a new scope would fix my problem, I used same brands of ammo but different boxes. This time i set the target at 15 yards to get on paper. The grouping was the whole 2ft wide target and some still managed to miss it. I am a good shot normally. I had my father (he shoots 22lr competitions) shoot as well and same results.  We are dumb founded at the results. I emailed and called DD but the person that does the warranty department was out til monday. I am waiting for a phone call or email from them.

Maybe i missed something that yall know to check! I have never heard of anyone having this problem with a DDM4. I hear that DD customer service is great.

Please school me on my situation. Thanks Kyle
View Quote


Update?
Link Posted: 9/8/2013 9:07:49 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
1/7 twist barrel wants heavier bullets than the old 55 grain..try 62 or heavier. It is not giving enough spin to stabilize the lighter bullet...
View Quote


1/7 works with every commercially available .223 or 5.56mm ammo.
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