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Posted: 8/30/2015 3:22:30 PM EST
I finally found a Crusader lower for a new build. I am wanting an accurate scoped AR for <400 yard shots. Some light hunting (antelope, hogs and deer @ 200y) and punching paper.I want to keep the weight reasonable and avoid heavy bull barrels or PRS type stocks. I want to use standard AR mags. Am I correct in thinking .277 Wolverine is my one and only option? 2 panics ago I got jammed up with my 50 Beo when AA stopped making ammo and components were impossible to find. I wont be help captive to a single manufacturer again, hence my desire to stay with readily available parts, ammo and components.
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 4:32:08 PM EST
You could use a 6.8 in a standard 223 AR magzine as several guys on here have mentioned. The 25X45 Sharps would be GTG but ammunition is limited to the Sharps guys at this time. The 6X45 is being loaded by several boutique companies. The 7.62X40 is also out there but ammo is the bugaboo there also. Of course there is the 450 Bushmaster and the 458 SOCOM if you want a hammer.

I think i'd just invest in a $15.00 magazine and step up to a no hassle 6.8 or 6.5 Grendel/264LBC and be done with it. You might want to consider covering your bases and 'd get set up for a minimalist approach for hand loading in preparation for the next panic.

Greg
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 5:21:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By 03PSD:
I finally found a Crusader lower for a new build. I am wanting an accurate scoped AR for <400 yard shots. Some light hunting (antelope, hogs and deer @ 200y) and punching paper.I want to keep the weight reasonable and avoid heavy bull barrels or PRS type stocks. I want to use standard AR mags. Am I correct in thinking .277 Wolverine is my one and only option? 2 panics ago I got jammed up with my 50 Beo when AA stopped making ammo and components were impossible to find. I wont be help captive to a single manufacturer again, hence my desire to stay with readily available parts, ammo and components.
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If your looking for a supersonic .223 based round I believe the 6.5mm PCC and the .277 Wolverine would be a very good choice, the other
.223 based rounds are good but will not satisfy your need for a round that can handle the 400 yard maximum range you are looking for...

Otherwise, the 6.5 Grendel or 6.8mm SPC are fine choices...Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 7:55:25 PM EST
The 6X45 and the 25X45 Sharps are more than capable of taking deer and hogs at 200 yards. Punching paper with either at 400 yards is a piece of cake. I have routinely shot a 6X45 at 500 yard F-class matches and with its good BC bullets it will stay supersonic out to 1000.

Greg
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 5:53:45 AM EST
Under 400 yards for thin skinned game and paper punching? Going to be hard to beat a .300 Blackout. I've only shot them at 100 yards, but based on what I've seen, you'll be able to go out to 300 or 400 yards with the lighter/ faster loads. I've heard of people stretching the legs out to 600 on man sized targets. You can't beat the availability of mags, ammo, components on it either.
All that said, 6.5 Grendel would be the next best choice - seeing as you can now get Wolf and PPU ammo for it. Just about everyone and his brother makes barrels and bolts that will run in. 6.8, while a great caliber, is just not as readily available. The Wolverine cartridge is definitely promising! Talk about packing a punch!
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 10:03:15 AM EST
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Originally Posted By boerseun:
Under 400 yards for thin skinned game and paper punching? Going to be hard to beat a .300 Blackout. I've only shot them at 100 yards, but based on what I've seen, you'll be able to go out to 300 or 400 yards with the lighter/ faster loads. I've heard of people stretching the legs out to 600 on man sized targets. You can't beat the availability of mags, ammo, components on it either.
All that said, 6.5 Grendel would be the next best choice - seeing as you can now get Wolf and PPU ammo for it. Just about everyone and his brother makes barrels and bolts that will run in. 6.8, while a great caliber, is just not as readily available. The Wolverine cartridge is definitely promising! Talk about packing a punch!
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The 300BO has the supersonic ballistics of a 7.62x39 give or take. So, take it for what it's worth. The 6.8 is very readily available in spc II or equivalent..So, is the ammo. You can even fin it at some Walmarts. $9.99 for AE plinker ammo ain't bad. Plus, I can find many more load for the 6.8 thasn the 6.5 G or 300 BO. The 6.5G is a good round too. Both the 6,8 &6,5G will even kill Elk.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 12:05:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By WVHunter1s1k:


The 300BO has the supersonic ballistics of a 7.62x39 give or take. So, take it for what it's worth. The 6.8 is very readily available in spc II or equivalent..So, is the ammo. You can even fin it at some Walmarts. $9.99 for AE plinker ammo ain't bad. Plus, I can find many more load for the 6.8 thasn the 6.5 G or 300 BO. The 6.5G is a good round too. Both the 6,8 &6,5G will even kill Elk.
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Originally Posted By WVHunter1s1k:
Originally Posted By boerseun:
Under 400 yards for thin skinned game and paper punching? Going to be hard to beat a .300 Blackout. I've only shot them at 100 yards, but based on what I've seen, you'll be able to go out to 300 or 400 yards with the lighter/ faster loads. I've heard of people stretching the legs out to 600 on man sized targets. You can't beat the availability of mags, ammo, components on it either.
All that said, 6.5 Grendel would be the next best choice - seeing as you can now get Wolf and PPU ammo for it. Just about everyone and his brother makes barrels and bolts that will run in. 6.8, while a great caliber, is just not as readily available. The Wolverine cartridge is definitely promising! Talk about packing a punch!


The 300BO has the supersonic ballistics of a 7.62x39 give or take. So, take it for what it's worth. The 6.8 is very readily available in spc II or equivalent..So, is the ammo. You can even fin it at some Walmarts. $9.99 for AE plinker ammo ain't bad. Plus, I can find many more load for the 6.8 thasn the 6.5 G or 300 BO. The 6.5G is a good round too. Both the 6,8 &6,5G will even kill Elk.

My local Wally world has 6.8SPC on the shelf but I dont know anything about it. What is the difference between 6.8SPC and 6.8SPC II ?? Are they 2 different cartridges? I can live with having to pick up a dozen new mags now while they are cheap. What is the parent case for the 6.8 ?? reloading and brass easy to find? Advantages of 6.8 SPC or 6.8 SPC II over 6.8 (.277) Wolverine?
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 1:22:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2015 6:58:10 PM EST by WVHunter1s1k]
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Originally Posted By 03PSD:

My local Wally world has 6.8SPC on the shelf but I dont know anything about it. What is the difference between 6.8SPC and 6.8SPC II ?? Are they 2 different cartridges? I can live with having to pick up a dozen new mags now while they are cheap. What is the parent case for the 6.8 ?? reloading and brass easy to find? Advantages of 6.8 SPC or 6.8 SPC II over 6.8 (.277) Wolverine?
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Originally Posted By 03PSD:
Originally Posted By WVHunter1s1k:
Originally Posted By boerseun:
Under 400 yards for thin skinned game and paper punching? Going to be hard to beat a .300 Blackout. I've only shot them at 100 yards, but based on what I've seen, you'll be able to go out to 300 or 400 yards with the lighter/ faster loads. I've heard of people stretching the legs out to 600 on man sized targets. You can't beat the availability of mags, ammo, components on it either.
All that said, 6.5 Grendel would be the next best choice - seeing as you can now get Wolf and PPU ammo for it. Just about everyone and his brother makes barrels and bolts that will run in. 6.8, while a great caliber, is just not as readily available. The Wolverine cartridge is definitely promising! Talk about packing a punch!


The 300BO has the supersonic ballistics of a 7.62x39 give or take. So, take it for what it's worth. The 6.8 is very readily available in spc II or equivalent..So, is the ammo. You can even fin it at some Walmarts. $9.99 for AE plinker ammo ain't bad. Plus, I can find many more load for the 6.8 thasn the 6.5 G or 300 BO. The 6.5G is a good round too. Both the 6,8 &6,5G will even kill Elk.

My local Wally world has 6.8SPC on the shelf but I dont know anything about it. What is the difference between 6.8SPC and 6.8SPC II ?? Are they 2 different cartridges? I can live with having to pick up a dozen new mags now while they are cheap. What is the parent case for the 6.8 ?? reloading and brass easy to find? Advantages of 6.8 SPC or 6.8 SPC II over 6.8 (.277) Wolverine?

Good questions;

1. The difference between SPC I & SPC II is the freebore (jump between case mouth to rifling.). .05 vs .100 w/.014 throat. Most barrel/rifles out today are SPC II (IIRC- LMT & Model 1 Sales are the last hold out). Factory ammo can be used in both.
2. Same case, but with the SPC II can be loaded longer(2.3+ COAL) with more powder safely (Disclaimer: Still ladder load should be used).
3.The parent case is the .30 Remington (rimless 30-30).
4. .277 Wolverine vs 6.8, More powder = more power. .223 cases are very easy to find. 6.8 Cases are not too hard to find. I bought some Hornadys from a LGS.

Also, it has a nice variety of bullet weights.85=120gr factory. If you're daring to reload longer than magazine length. You can do 130-150gr loads.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 5:14:31 PM EST
You should check out the 6.8 forum before making a final decision, there are some really knowledgeable people there (not just with 6.8)

Ammo price and availability for 6.8 is really getting good lately. For example:


If I was doing a suppressed SBR, I'd go with 300 BO, subsonic only.
If I was doing a 20"+ bench gun, I might choose 6.5 grendel (but I'd likely step up to 308 instead)
But if you are going to stick with a 16" or 18" barrel and want 200+ yard hunting performance, 6.8 is definitely something to consider.

Also, if you are looking for more information on 277 wolverine, mark at MDWS is the creator of the cartridge and is an industry partner at the 6.8 forum.
Link Posted: 9/1/2015 3:09:00 PM EST
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Originally Posted By _Crog:
You should check out the 6.8 forum before making a final decision, there are some really knowledgeable people there (not just with 6.8)

Ammo price and availability for 6.8 is really getting good lately. For example:


http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ammunition/rifle-ammunition/6-8-spc/american-eagle-6-8-spc-115gr-fmj-ammunition-20rds-ae68a.html



If I was doing a suppressed SBR, I'd go with 300 BO, subsonic only.
If I was doing a 20"+ bench gun, I might choose 6.5 grendel (but I'd likely step up to 308 instead)
But if you are going to stick with a 16" or 18" barrel and want 200+ yard hunting performance, 6.8 is definitely something to consider.


Also, if you are looking for more information on 277 wolverine, mark at MDWS is the creator of the cartridge and is an industry partner at the 6.8 forum.
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6.8 forum where? I dont see one dedicated here to 6.8


Link Posted: 9/1/2015 5:49:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2015 5:50:36 PM EST by WVHunter1s1k]
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Originally Posted By 03PSD:

6.8 forum where? I dont see one dedicated here to 6.8


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Originally Posted By 03PSD:
Originally Posted By _Crog:
You should check out the 6.8 forum before making a final decision, there are some really knowledgeable people there (not just with 6.8)

Ammo price and availability for 6.8 is really getting good lately. For example:


http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ammunition/rifle-ammunition/6-8-spc/american-eagle-6-8-spc-115gr-fmj-ammunition-20rds-ae68a.html



If I was doing a suppressed SBR, I'd go with 300 BO, subsonic only.
If I was doing a 20"+ bench gun, I might choose 6.5 grendel (but I'd likely step up to 308 instead)
But if you are going to stick with a 16" or 18" barrel and want 200+ yard hunting performance, 6.8 is definitely something to consider.


Also, if you are looking for more information on 277 wolverine, mark at MDWS is the creator of the cartridge and is an industry partner at the 6.8 forum.

6.8 forum where? I dont see one dedicated here to 6.8




68 Forums Linky
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:21:42 PM EST
If you're looking at hunting antelope, they typically like to keep their distance from people. Unless you have a blind or static position that happens to be right along one of their routes, in my region, they keep at least 400yds between themselves and humans. We see them a lot in the foothills out near the West end of the Salt Lake, in Idaho, and in Wyoming.

I would look at 6.5 Grendel if you're planning on hunting antelope and hogs for that reason. You can get away with 3-5rds in some standard AR15 mags, but I would recommend just getting the appropriate mags for them, since mags are $7.75-$19.70 .

Here are some Antelope taken with 6.5 Grendel:







Link Posted: 9/3/2015 12:11:45 PM EST
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Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
If you're looking at hunting antelope, they typically like to keep their distance from people. Unless you have a blind or static position that happens to be right along one of their routes, in my region, they keep at least 400yds between themselves and humans. We see them a lot in the foothills out near the West end of the Salt Lake, in Idaho, and in Wyoming.

I would look at 6.5 Grendel if you're planning on hunting antelope and hogs for that reason. You can get away with 3-5rds in some standard AR15 mags, but I would recommend just getting the appropriate mags for them, since mags are $7.75-$19.70 .

Here are some Antelope taken with 6.5 Grendel:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd244/VASCAR2/image_zpsbf2444da.jpg

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll94/johnod2/Steens2009-1-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/FMSNIPER/P1010752_zps40039e2c.jpg

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2370&d=1348871148
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Great looking speed goats. When I said Antelope, I was referring to the exotics we see in Texas, black buck and <80 lbs. I can usually get within 250 yards on them but even if its 300 I would still try a shot with a something flat shooting and bigger than .22 caliber.
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