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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/11/2005 3:20:05 PM EDT
Guys...shot my newly acquired AR today for the first time. A few questions.

Lower is a titanium colored SOCOM forged aluminum while the upper is an 11.5" A2 with iron sights.

My question is this...at 75 meters I was able to keep most of the shots within probably a 6" pattern without a whole lot of difficulty and concentrating intently on each shot. The front sight was fairly thick on the target at that range so I don't think I could personally do a whole lot better without an optic of some kind.

At 100 meters the target (10" black circular) was a mere speck on the top of my sight. I could consistently place shots within 18-20" at this range but still very difficult to even sight on a consistent spot at this range.

My question is this...how far from normal is this for an iron sight gun? I read of people shooting 2-3" groups at 100 meters and I just don't see how with iron sights. I guess maybe if it were locked in some kind of rifle rest to hold it exactly point of aim each time maybe but the targets were so small at these ranges that it was difficult to see. So...tell me....do I stink or is this normal for the non uber commando super shots? h.gif
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:29:49 PM EDT
Sight radius is way too short with an 11.5" gun for 100 meter bullseye shooting. A 14.5" M4 is also fairly marginal, although it's certainly an improvement, and I have heard of Marines shooting them with no problems in their qualification course up to 500 meters away. If you want decent iron sight groups you'll have to try a 20" gun. The front sight post looks much smaller, and it's much, much easier to be consistent in shot placement with it.

From a rest, I have been able to get 4" groups at 200 yds with Hornady 75 gr OTM with my 20" A2 clone.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:30:41 PM EDT
Typically, they are talking about shooting off a sandbag to steady their aim. Your groups would definitely improve with a sandbag rest. Just take your time and don't hurry the shots.

BTW, you got an 11.5" SBR for your first AR?

I wish I could have done that.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:25:16 PM EDT
So considering my short barrel...these results are not anything to hang my head over?

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:32:05 PM EDT
With some practice you should be able to hold them inside 4 inches or so from prone at 100m. Iron sights are hard to learn, but you have to learn on them. Try using the small aperture instead of the big one (you were using the big one, weren't you) and focus on consistency.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:50:33 PM EDT
I shot several hundred rounds yesterday, out of 14.5" Bushmaster M4 1-in-7 twist barrel, with 62 grain Federal NATO ammo. I was actually checking zero and re-sighitng in my EOTech after I had it removed.

at 50 yards, a 30 magazine had evershot in the BLACK zone on a small-arms target. Another FAST fired (~>1 minute for 30 rounds) had everyshot but 2 inside the black ring.

then I decided to sight in my ARMS back up iron sight. Mainly to make sure it was hitting the aimpoint, more more importanly it has never been sighted in, just co-witnessed with the EOTech dot. SAD to say but the grouping was MUCH tighter at 50 and 100 yards with the backup sight than with the EOTech
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:04:40 PM EDT
I am the Noob so I will have to take your word on it but I think 4" groups at 100m would happen by accident. The black circle was a speck on my front sight at that range. Very difficult to sight on a fixed point consistently.

I guess I need to keep practicing.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:28:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 5:28:58 PM EDT by vktshooter]

Originally Posted By DaChop:
I am the Noob so I will have to take your word on it but I think 4" groups at 100m would happen by accident. The black circle was a speck on my front sight at that range. Very difficult to sight on a fixed point consistently.

I guess I need to keep practicing.



Blame it on the ammo and try again.

There hoped that helped
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:48:33 PM EDT
If you shoot with a 20" AR, you will probably suprise yourself. With my fal on a rest 2.5 inches is normal. I do make my own targets for shooting irons, white bullseye on a black page. It helps me keep my front sight post in the same spot shot after shot. While i'm shooting, it does'nt seem like it would be so accurate, but it is. Try focusing on the post only with the target blurred.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:49:39 PM EDT
It's not a 20" AR....it's an 11.5 inch AR.

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:51:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vktshooter:

Originally Posted By DaChop:
I am the Noob so I will have to take your word on it but I think 4" groups at 100m would happen by accident. The black circle was a speck on my front sight at that range. Very difficult to sight on a fixed point consistently.

I guess I need to keep practicing.



Blame it on the ammo and try again.

There hoped that helpedhr


I like this idea. It was Wolf...well it wasn't marked WOLF but it was Russian green lacquered ammo. That's wolf right?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:49:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 6:50:03 PM EDT by eye_spy]

Originally Posted By DaChop:
So considering I was not shooting from the bench with a rest (sandbag / bipod) ... these results are not anything to hang my head over?




Fixed it for ya!

I do not think your having a short barrel is the primary cause of your grouping. Try it from a bench and see how different your grouping will be.
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