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Posted: 9/25/2023 7:00:43 PM EST
I received a bcg from Arms Unlimited today and first off it’s not what I ordered. I ordered used colt bcg and received a new one.  AU only sells two 223/5.56 ar15 bcg’s and both are advertised as colt, used and new. The bgc I received is new and in a plastic bag. Pulled it out to inspect,the carrier is unmarked(not uncommon) but the bolt is marked MP only not MPC. Carrier and gas key are both chrome lined. Seems like a decent BCG just not what I ordered. Are new production colts not marked at all?
fnh
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 7:18:16 PM EST
[#1]
Yeah they cut corners now that they don't have the govt requirements to deal with.

Small Arms Solutions has a couple great YouTube videos where he goes over the changes between OG in-house Colt made stuff to the new, post-govt contract outsourced parts Colt
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 7:23:35 PM EST
[#2]
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 7:29:33 PM EST
[#3]
Thanks guys. I’m not 100% sure bout keeping this or getting them to send the used ban era one I ordered.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 7:46:41 PM EST
[#4]
Commonplace.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 9:24:43 PM EST
[#5]
Does it have the colt part number/label on the plastic bag it likely came in?
Pictures of the bcg and bag would help.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 10:07:36 PM EST
[#6]
Link Posted: 9/26/2023 3:44:48 AM EST
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yeah they cut corners now that they don't have the govt requirements to deal with.

Small Arms Solutions has a couple great YouTube videos where he goes over the changes between OG in-house Colt made stuff to the new, post-govt contract outsourced parts Colt
View Quote


Couple of things..

Colt lost the sole source contract but it’s still selling guns to the Govt.
Not to mention foreign contracts.
In fact someone posted pics of new Air Force M4 with the newer laser engraved markings.
So they’re not cutting corners.

Colt has been outsourcing since forever. No company in the world can make everything in house.
Even in the 70 when every single piece was C marked it could have been outsourced.

Link Posted: 9/26/2023 6:01:47 AM EST
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Couple of things..

Colt lost the sole source contract but it’s still selling guns to the Govt.
Not to mention foreign contracts.
In fact someone posted pics of new Air Force M4 with the newer laser engraved markings.
So they’re not cutting corners.

Colt has been outsourcing since forever. No company in the world can make everything in house.
Even in the 70 when every single piece was C marked it could have been outsourced.

View Quote

AF issued laser engraved lower:



As far as subbed parts, pre 2k Colt was using FN, National Aerospace, RIA and others.
Link Posted: 9/26/2023 6:28:27 AM EST
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

AF issued laser engraved lower:

https://i.postimg.cc/RVPCc9ZC/9-D6-B3-BFD-CED4-46-DF-883-E-6-F2-F1-FA97-DFD-jpe-2186778-jpeg.jpg

As far as subbed parts, pre 2k Colt was using FN, National Aerospace, RIA and others.
View Quote


Thanks for the pic.

AO Precision has always stated they’re an OEM supplier for Colt, FN, etc
Link Posted: 9/26/2023 6:35:00 AM EST
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



AO Precision has always stated they’re an OEM supplier for Colt, FN, etc
View Quote


Microbest as well.
Link Posted: 9/26/2023 6:51:25 AM EST
[#11]
I find most of YT channels extremely entertaining and a good source of info..

But I’ll never understand why/what started all the outsourcing drama on all channels simultaneously a couple of years ago… seems like all the colt internet commandos experts started suffering from dementia for some weird reasons..
Link Posted: 9/26/2023 6:54:39 AM EST
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I find most of YT channels extremely entertaining and a good source of info..

But I’ll never understand why/what started all the outsourcing drama on all channels simultaneously a couple of years ago… seems like all the colt internet commandos experts started suffering from dementia for some weird reasons..
View Quote

Start of the shit show
Link Posted: 9/26/2023 10:47:03 AM EST
[#13]
I will just add to take whatever Chris at SAS with a grain of salt.  I am far from a Colt expert but even I have caught him citing absolutely incorrect info at times.  Enough so that I no longer value his knowledge like I once did.
Link Posted: 9/26/2023 4:03:29 PM EST
[#14]
Well I got a response from AU and they didn’t even offer to get the used part I ordered. They just said “yeah they are colt and you’re welcome for a new one vs the used you ordered.”
So I guess I’m stuck with this either way. Lol.
Link Posted: 9/26/2023 10:38:10 PM EST
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yeah they cut corners now that they don't have the govt requirements to deal with.

Small Arms Solutions has a couple great YouTube videos where he goes over the changes between OG in-house Colt made stuff to the new, post-govt contract outsourced parts Colt
View Quote


Ive talked to Chris from SAS about current Colt and his opinions on them. He contends that they're still quality, duty-grade rifles - they're not cutting corners.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 6:57:59 AM EST
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Ive talked to Chris from SAS about current Colt and his opinions on them. He contends that they're still quality, duty-grade rifles - they're not cutting corners.
View Quote

By cutting corners I meant by the engraving, and also some of the testing that's required by the govt.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 7:36:54 AM EST
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

By cutting corners I meant by the engraving, and also some of the testing that's required by the govt.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


Ive talked to Chris from SAS about current Colt and his opinions on them. He contends that they're still quality, duty-grade rifles - they're not cutting corners.

By cutting corners I meant by the engraving, and also some of the testing that's required by the govt.

If by altering/deleting methods of markings is what is being referred to, I wouldn't classify that as "cutting corners " personally.

It is a sad change though, IMO.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 7:56:38 AM EST
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

If by altering/deleting methods of markings is what is being referred to, I wouldn't classify that as "cutting corners " personally.

It is a sad change though, IMO.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


Ive talked to Chris from SAS about current Colt and his opinions on them. He contends that they're still quality, duty-grade rifles - they're not cutting corners.

By cutting corners I meant by the engraving, and also some of the testing that's required by the govt.

If by altering/deleting methods of markings is what is being referred to, I wouldn't classify that as "cutting corners " personally.

It is a sad change though, IMO.


It's more of a piece of mind thing, we look for the C to ensure that we are getting a quality component.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 8:20:01 AM EST
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It's more of a piece of mind thing, we look for the C to ensure that we are getting a quality component.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


Ive talked to Chris from SAS about current Colt and his opinions on them. He contends that they're still quality, duty-grade rifles - they're not cutting corners.

By cutting corners I meant by the engraving, and also some of the testing that's required by the govt.

If by altering/deleting methods of markings is what is being referred to, I wouldn't classify that as "cutting corners " personally.

It is a sad change though, IMO.


It's more of a piece of mind thing, we look for the C to ensure that we are getting a quality component.

I understand that mindset completely.

Labeling it as "cutting corners " is an inaccurate assessment, IMO.

IF the specs and test procedures have not changed then it boils down to a subjective POV.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 9:12:46 AM EST
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I find most of YT channels extremely entertaining and a good source of info..

But I’ll never understand why/what started all the outsourcing drama on all channels simultaneously a couple of years ago… seems like all the colt internet commandos experts started suffering from dementia for some weird reasons..
View Quote


And Chris Bartocci has a subtle axe to grind:  It seems like his unspoken narrative is that "Colt went to shit after I left.  I did my best to keep them on an even keel."
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 11:28:00 AM EST
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


And Chris Bartocci has a subtle axe to grind:  It seems like his unspoken narrative is that "Colt went to shit after I left.  I did my best to keep them on an even keel."
View Quote


lol, funny,

He reminds me of a divorced man who hates his ex wife but at the same time is still madly in love with her.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 11:49:10 AM EST
[#22]
I’ve bought used Colt bolts and BCGs in the EE that were said to be unmarked, and found that the markings were just very light and phosphated over. They seem identical to known Colt ones.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 11:57:51 AM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Post mared By 1168RGR:
I’ve bought used Colt bolts and BCGs in the EE that were said to be unmarked, and found that the markings were just very light and phosphated over. They seem identical to known Colt ones.
View Quote

At times the markings are extremely light.

Many carriers w/o C marking and bolt markings vary. I've seen several "MP" atop an "A" , MP only, some others void of markings altogether.  
Link Posted: 9/28/2023 11:05:21 AM EST
[#24]
I'm willing to bet it is on there but you just can't see it. They laser it on now and if you hold it at just the right angle or get some oil off it, you can see it. Very hard to spot.
Link Posted: 9/28/2023 11:11:20 AM EST
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm willing to bet it is on there but you just can't see it. They laser it on now and if you hold it at just the right angle or get some oil off it, you can see it. Very hard to spot.
View Quote



Pics of laser engraved markings on a Colt bolt or carrier
Link Posted: 9/28/2023 11:34:59 AM EST
[#26]
Here’s an example of a faint MPC that was said to be unmarked, from a newer rifle; in person, you can rotate it in the light and see all 3 letters, but you really have to be looking to see any of it:

On my newer Colts, even if the marking is more visible than that, its not like the older style markings for whatever reason.
Link Posted: 9/28/2023 1:18:04 PM EST
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Well I got a response from AU and they didn’t even offer to get the used part I ordered. They just said “yeah they are colt and you’re welcome for a new one vs the used you ordered.”
So I guess I’m stuck with this either way. Lol.
View Quote


AU is a Colt dealer and I've always gotten good stuff from them.

I can't imagine that they would try pass non-Colt parts as Colt parts.

Late last year, Midway USA had a clearance sale on their separate Colt BCG parts, including carriers and bolts for less than half price.

I stocked up on them and they are marked,
Link Posted: 9/28/2023 8:24:02 PM EST
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Pics of laser engraved markings on a Colt bolt or carrier
View Quote


I sold all 4 of what I had last year on the EE. If you can find my post from that time I guess you could see it. Some of them were so faint that I could not make it out and could not take a picture of it. It looked laser etched to me. I had one that was stamped on and you could clearly make out and feel the C and MPC on the bolt.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 8:38:49 PM EST
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Couple of things..

Colt lost the sole source contract but it’s still selling guns to the Govt.
Not to mention foreign contracts.
In fact someone posted pics of new Air Force M4 with the newer laser engraved markings.
So they’re not cutting corners.

Colt has been outsourcing since forever. No company in the world can make everything in house.
Even in the 70 when every single piece was C marked it could have been outsourced.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yeah they cut corners now that they don't have the govt requirements to deal with.

Small Arms Solutions has a couple great YouTube videos where he goes over the changes between OG in-house Colt made stuff to the new, post-govt contract outsourced parts Colt


Couple of things..

Colt lost the sole source contract but it’s still selling guns to the Govt.
Not to mention foreign contracts.
In fact someone posted pics of new Air Force M4 with the newer laser engraved markings.
So they’re not cutting corners.

Colt has been outsourcing since forever. No company in the world can make everything in house.
Even in the 70 when every single piece was C marked it could have been outsourced.



I was going to start a new thread about Colt until I saw this thread. My guess is Colt still selling guns to the government and overseas doesn't prove quality has not gone down. With more outsourcing than in past times, people may not realize lower quality until some time into the future.

How do we know quality has not gone downhill other than some sales to the gov and sale overseas? Would Colt care about overseas sales as much as they would care about sales to the government if they were still the sole source contractor?

Another thing is, how do we know we are getting the same Colt they are selling to government orgs, outside of full-automatic or 3 shot burst?

I'm hoping for responses to this post.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 9:04:40 PM EST
[#30]
Colt’s market is perplexing.

Cage coded stripped upper: $189-$250.
Cage coded complete upper: $860.
Colt OEM complete rifle which has a cage coded upper: $700.

I somewhat understand the stamped lower logo appeal, but as a business it just doesn’t make sense to not evolve. I’d still prefer their bolt groups were marked but oh well. I’ll take a laser engraved Colt M4 for $700 over a stamped $1500 6920 any day.

Colt has failed over and over in the past. They’re thinking ahead now and I think under CZ we might see some significant evolution to bring them back to being a big name brand instead of a specialty product like they have been the past 15 years. As long as they don’t reduce quality control at least, which so far I don’t know if any solid proof they have.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 10:09:22 PM EST
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I was going to start a new thread about Colt until I saw this thread. My guess is Colt still selling guns to the government and overseas doesn't prove quality has not gone down. With more outsourcing than in past times, people may not realize lower quality until some time into the future.

How do we know quality has not gone downhill other than some sales to the gov and sale overseas? Would Colt care about overseas sales as much as they would care about sales to the government if they were still the sole source contractor?

Another thing is, how do we know we are getting the same Colt they are selling to government orgs, outside of full-automatic or 3 shot burst?

I'm hoping for responses to this post.
View Quote

Buy some Colt's.

Shoot it, experience firsthand trumps repeating what others keep posting.


Other than markings, I've seen zero change in Colt's personally.
Link Posted: 10/1/2023 1:15:39 AM EST
[#32]
Most recent contract for those thinking colt is done

https://www.guns.com/news/2023/07/06/colt-bags-93-million-army-barrel-contract
Link Posted: 10/1/2023 10:01:28 AM EST
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Buy some Colt's.

Shoot it, experience firsthand trumps repeating what others keep posting.


Other than markings, I've seen zero change in Colt's personally.
View Quote


Except for those craptastic unmarked triggers they started using that later had to be recalled...



Personally, I am not willing to be the test dummy for the bean counters they have running the show now.
Link Posted: 10/1/2023 10:14:10 AM EST
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Except for those craptastic unmarked triggers they started using that later had to be recalled...



Personally, I am not willing to be the test dummy for the bean counters they have running the show now.
View Quote

They were not unmarked. The markings were included in the recall, and are different than the markings of the other trigger/hammer company that Colt subs out to.
Link Posted: 10/1/2023 10:38:17 AM EST
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Except for those craptastic unmarked triggers they started using that later had to be recalled...



Personally, I am not willing to be the test dummy for the bean counters they have running the show now.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

Buy some Colt's.

Shoot it, experience firsthand trumps repeating what others keep posting.


Other than markings, I've seen zero change in Colt's personally.


Except for those craptastic unmarked triggers they started using that later had to be recalled...



Personally, I am not willing to be the test dummy for the bean counters they have running the show now.

Hammers, not triggers.

Not sure whose brilliant idea that was.

Not the first mfgr to have a FCG related recall.
Link Posted: 10/1/2023 11:20:38 AM EST
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Most recent contract for those thinking colt is done

https://www.guns.com/news/2023/07/06/colt-bags-93-million-army-barrel-contract
View Quote


The link in your post to the FN factory tour was great!
Link Posted: 10/1/2023 12:43:46 PM EST
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The link in your post to the FN factory tour was great!
View Quote

500 M4s produced daily /7k shipped per month. DAMN.
Link Posted: 10/1/2023 2:52:01 PM EST
[#38]
I bought a brand new Colt BCG from ColtParts.com recently. The carrier was marked "C". Didn't see the "MPC" on the bolt, so I took a magnifying glass to it and it was there, but very faint. I would guess that most of them are like the one I bought.
Link Posted: 10/1/2023 11:09:19 PM EST
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Except for those craptastic unmarked triggers they started using that later had to be recalled...



Personally, I am not willing to be the test dummy for the bean counters they have running the show now.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

Buy some Colt's.

Shoot it, experience firsthand trumps repeating what others keep posting.


Other than markings, I've seen zero change in Colt's personally.


Except for those craptastic unmarked triggers they started using that later had to be recalled...



Personally, I am not willing to be the test dummy for the bean counters they have running the show now.


@Aaron56

Was it a brief period of time when there were issues with the triggers/hammers? Did they rectify the problem to the satisfaction of owners?

There's more bean counters now that CZ owns them than before CZ ownership?

Maybe the new owners will try to take back business from FN.
Link Posted: 10/2/2023 4:17:34 AM EST
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


@Aaron56

Was it a brief period of time when there were issues with the triggers/hammers? Did they rectify the problem to the satisfaction of owners?

There's more bean counters now that CZ owns them than before CZ ownership?

Maybe the new owners will try to take back business from FN.
View Quote

MSR RECALL

Info there.
Link Posted: 10/3/2023 8:48:12 PM EST
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


@Aaron56

Was it a brief period of time when there were issues with the triggers/hammers? Did they rectify the problem to the satisfaction of owners?

There's more bean counters now that CZ owns them than before CZ ownership?

Maybe the new owners will try to take back business from FN.
View Quote



It's funny that you mention FN here.

Last week PA had FN auto hammers on freaking SUPER sale so I grabbed a few. Upon inspection they were indeed good quality, and properly marked parts. Schmid Tool trigger parts...

The same exact company that Colt 'used to use' for all of their AR pattern trigger parts for as long as I can remember but now being used by FN... :)

The Colt recall trigger parts were NOT Schmid Tool parts BTW. (because of bean counters trying to save a nickel)
Link Posted: 10/3/2023 9:19:21 PM EST
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



It's funny that you mention FN here.

Last week PA had FN auto hammers on freaking SUPER sale so I grabbed a few. Upon inspection they were indeed good quality, and properly marked parts. Schmid Tool trigger parts...

The same exact company that Colt 'used to use' for all of their AR pattern trigger parts for as long as I can remember but now being used by FN... :)

The Colt recall trigger parts were NOT Schmid Tool parts BTW. (because of bean counters trying to save a nickel)
View Quote

Are you sure that Colt switched? A simple explanation would be that Colt uses more than one sub.
Link Posted: 10/3/2023 10:07:45 PM EST
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

500 M4s produced daily /7k shipped per month. DAMN.
View Quote

Is that a lot?
Link Posted: 10/3/2023 11:59:16 PM EST
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Are you sure that Colt switched? A simple explanation would be that Colt uses more than one sub.
View Quote


Obviously Colt use more OEM suppliers.

Hey one issue and the world go crazy.. just relax.. colt name really makes people mad.

When Sig delivered unsafe M17 I didn’t remember all this drama..
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