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Posted: 10/4/2022 11:30:53 PM EDT



https://twitter.com/JakOSpades/status/1572969453544939521?s=20&t=FRHjqFePwYFkXmj7kEPktw

Project Hunter is purchase of new rifle&sight system for UK Rangers. A number of Uk importer firms are vying for the contract.
Link Posted: 10/4/2022 11:41:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Christmas is coming up if anyone wants to gift me the RIS III

The HK unobtanium 300BO looks interesting as well. If this were a DoD contract it seems almost a given that Sig would win. Curious to see what the Brits go with.
Link Posted: 10/4/2022 11:55:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Top rifle in second photo, looks like a KAC?  ETA:  Guess it is KAC based on the Twitter post.

Optic looks unfamiliar as well.  Also looks to be on a modified Reptilia AUS mount.
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 12:35:49 AM EDT
[#3]
HK needs to get their shit together on the 433 already. It’s the one wunder rifle I think will be game changing.

Notice the extra material forward of the magwell? Notice the extra long charging handle slot? The opposite side has a long ejection port too.

Yes. The HK433 switches between 5.56 and 308 with just a bolt and barrel exchange, extended lower, and a flip of the gas block. Same carrier, same recoil assembly, etc.
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 1:39:24 AM EDT
[#4]
That Reptilia type mount looks a little higher than 1.54", wonder what height the brits are asking for. The LPVO on the KAC looks interesting too.
I'm sure it'll actually come down to HK vs SIG, it must be logistically convenient to go with SIG and get the whole package from one company, rather than scheduling/tracking time tables on delivery for the weapon, then optics, parts, NET/training materials etc from several companies
I like the MCX well enough but it'd be nice to see this go another direction, maybe steer carbine development through growth with another company.
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 1:52:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That Reptilia type mount looks a little higher than 1.54", wonder what height the brits are asking for. The LPVO on the KAC looks interesting too.
I'm sure it'll actually come down to HK vs SIG, it must be logistically convenient to go with SIG and get the whole package from one company, rather than scheduling/tracking time tables on delivery for the weapon, then optics, parts, NET/training materials etc from several companies
I like the MCX well enough but it'd be nice to see this go another direction, maybe steer carbine development through growth with another company.
View Quote
Sig's ability to combine scale and breadth, while seemingly always coming in "cheapest", makes it hard to compete against for big contracts. I'm not a huge fan of their stuff but I tip my cap from a pure business perspective. Effective horizontal diversification is really hard to do well (looking at you Geissele). To pull it off while keeping the cost tail under control is impressive.

Agreed it feels like a foregone conclusion they'll win this one.
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 2:04:19 AM EDT
[#6]
Probably depends on if they can get their rail flex under control.
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 3:25:10 AM EDT
[#7]




Link Posted: 10/5/2022 10:50:25 AM EDT
[#8]
Wow.  Lots of great stuff here.

That Daniel Defense rifle is something I haven't seen before.  The lower has the RIII ambi controls, but the upper is not the RIII or V7 type rail.  This one is like their large frame model where the rail attachment is integrated into the upper receiver itself.  Looks nice.  I hope that they bring that to the civ market at some point.

Link Posted: 10/5/2022 12:21:09 PM EDT
[#9]
The grip on the 416. I need it.
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 12:57:05 PM EDT
[#10]
yeah i agree, i think that DD upper would be the bees knees.
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 1:39:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Nobody wants to talk about that folding stocked, front (side) charging rifle marked HK437?

What in the blue fuck is that, and why can't I have one?  (I know, HK hates us)
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 1:58:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Nobody wants to talk about that folding stocked, front (side) charging rifle marked HK437?

What in the blue fuck is that, and why can't I have one?  (I know, HK hates us)
View Quote


That is an HK 433 variant and they have been shown publicly for a few years. They were developed as a cheap alternative to the 416 for the Germans but the same trials that it was developed for resulted in it being out preformed by the 416 so development seems to have slowed until they find a buyer.

Colt Canada allegedly entered a monolithic gun with the new Colt M5 lower which seems absolutely perfect. The new DD seems interesting as well.
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 2:01:34 PM EDT
[#13]
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The grip on the 416. I need it.
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Looks like it was inspired by the VP9 grip. Kind of want one for myself too now.

have you looked to see if any are for sale?
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 3:06:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That is an HK 433 variant and they have been shown publicly for a few years. They were developed as a cheap alternative to the 416 for the Germans but the same trials that it was developed for resulted in it being out preformed by the 416 so development seems to have slowed until they find a buyer.

Colt Canada allegedly entered a monolithic gun with the new Colt M5 lower which seems absolutely perfect. The new DD seems interesting as well.
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I’ve been saying this pretty much any time the M5 is mentioned. Colt and Colt Canada, being all under the CZ group, there is no reason not to merge ideas. An MRR with an Ambi M5 lower would be perfect. It fits within their ecosystem of Colt Canada L119A1’s and A2’s. Colt Canada already offers an excellent 11.6” CHF barrel in the MRR, competing directly with the KAC option. The only update i could see them needing to do is making a removable port door for barrel nut access, as removing IUR/MRR barrel nuts is difficult and requires removal of the gas block.
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 3:47:00 PM EDT
[#15]
HK hates you....KAC hates you....Sig hates you.....the liberals at Daniel Defense barely love you.......
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 4:07:40 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
HK hates you....KAC hates you....Sig hates you.....the liberals at Daniel Defense barely love you.......
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This isn't GD, please keep that nonsense out of here.
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 4:10:19 PM EDT
[#17]
That is the first time I've ever laid eyes on a 437... Damn sexy.
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 4:38:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 5:33:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Cool seeing the SR-16's new ambi bolt catch and release. Almost looks like a dimpled barrel as well?
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 5:41:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Good observation about the "VP9" grip aspect.

I also want one ( or more ) now.

It appears to be called... HK416 A5 | Accessories,  Adaptive Battle Grip with Storage Compartment for Tools 256694

https://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/military/assault-rifles/hk416-a5/hk416-a5-11/accessories.html?tx_z7attachmentshk_pi3%5Barticle%5D=1969&cHash=ac53bb7d3857c479551fcee97eec3274



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Looks like it was inspired by the VP9 grip. Kind of want one for myself too now.

have you looked to see if any are for sale?


Good observation about the "VP9" grip aspect.

I also want one ( or more ) now.

It appears to be called... HK416 A5 | Accessories,  Adaptive Battle Grip with Storage Compartment for Tools 256694

https://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/military/assault-rifles/hk416-a5/hk416-a5-11/accessories.html?tx_z7attachmentshk_pi3%5Barticle%5D=1969&cHash=ac53bb7d3857c479551fcee97eec3274




I have a connected friend who knows people at HKD. No promises but if I can get a few or several, I will let you know.
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 5:48:22 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That Reptilia type mount looks a little higher than 1.54", wonder what height the brits are asking for. The LPVO on the KAC looks interesting too.
I'm sure it'll actually come down to HK vs SIG, it must be logistically convenient to go with SIG and get the whole package from one company, rather than scheduling/tracking time tables on delivery for the weapon, then optics, parts, NET/training materials etc from several companies
I like the MCX well enough but it'd be nice to see this go another direction, maybe steer carbine development through growth with another company.
View Quote


I was thinking most of those mounts look taller than 1.54".
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 6:47:41 PM EDT
[#22]
That tan ACRO…soooo hawt.
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 7:02:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I have a connected friend who knows people at HKD. No promises but if I can get a few or several, I will let you know.
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MyMan.gif

That would be awesome as long as they aren't nuts on pricing
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 8:50:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Highly doubt it (fingers crossed, knock on wood, for a good outcome though, etc.) but if it even happens I will let you guys know.

And I'm going to assume based on the timing that this was the trials that the Glock AR was sent to to compete against the other options.
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 9:35:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Highly doubt it (fingers crossed, knock on wood, for a good outcome though, etc.) but if it even happens I will let you guys know.

And I'm going to assume based on the timing that this was the trials that the Glock AR was sent to to compete against the other options.
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I would assume so as well, and I think its safe to do so. All the LPVO's are essentially the same, with the exception of Sig providing their own. The LPVO and ACRO setup on both the Glock and KAC rifles are identical
Link Posted: 10/5/2022 9:40:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Top rifle in second photo, looks like a KAC?  ETA:  Guess it is KAC based on the Twitter post.

Optic looks unfamiliar as well.  Also looks to be on a modified Reptilia AUS mount.
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Kac. HK. Sig. Glock. DD
Link Posted: 10/6/2022 2:58:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I would assume so as well, and I think its safe to do so. All the LPVO's are essentially the same, with the exception of Sig providing their own. The LPVO and ACRO setup on both the Glock and KAC rifles are identical
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Just as likely to be a stand-in as the real submission but any idea what the scope is? Looks like a coated Vortex Strike Eagle based on the turret caps, only with a Schmidt & Bender throw lever.
Link Posted: 10/6/2022 10:02:20 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Just as likely to be a stand-in as the real submission but any idea what the scope is? Looks like a coated Vortex Strike Eagle based on the turret caps, only with a Schmidt & Bender throw lever.
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I would assume so as well, and I think its safe to do so. All the LPVO's are essentially the same, with the exception of Sig providing their own. The LPVO and ACRO setup on both the Glock and KAC rifles are identical


Just as likely to be a stand-in as the real submission but any idea what the scope is? Looks like a coated Vortex Strike Eagle based on the turret caps, only with a Schmidt & Bender throw lever.


I highly doubt two separate companies would both be using the same exact “stand in” optic.  I’ve also never seen that scope before (the indentations on the turret housing in the scope body  around the windage turret/cap are pretty unique), so I’d venture a guess it’s the real optic and it hasn’t been publicly released yet.

I’m 99% sure the caps on both the KAC and Glock are Vortex Defenders, so I’d imagine likely a Vortex product, maybe a new US manufactured high end LPVO?  The cap on what I’m guessing is the illumination turret (likely the battery door) looks TTish (visible in the Glock pics, not the ones posted here).

Looks super short too, kind of like the newer March LPVOs.
Link Posted: 10/6/2022 12:01:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I highly doubt two separate companies would both be using the same exact “stand in” optic.  I’ve also never seen that scope before (the indentations on the turret housing in the scope body  around the windage turret/cap are pretty unique), so I’d venture a guess it’s the real optic and it hasn’t been publicly released yet.

I’m 99% sure the caps on both the KAC and Glock are Vortex Defenders, so I’d imagine likely a Vortex product, maybe a new US manufactured high end LPVO?  The cap on what I’m guessing is the illumination turret (likely the battery door) looks TTish (visible in the Glock pics, not the ones posted here).

Looks super short too, kind of like the newer March LPVOs.
View Quote


I agree. The SAS had been using the Gen 3 Razor 1-10 for a long while on their A2’s before it was ever announced publicly. I would imagine the same is going on here, new optic has already been chosen and the rifles are being outfitted with them so testing is equal. That does make it more confusing that Sig provided their own, but Sig does really like pushing their stuff as a one and done complete package
Link Posted: 10/6/2022 12:27:50 PM EDT
[#30]
First I had ever heard of March optics. Are they any good? Those 1-10 micro's have very excellent specs on them, but it's night vision money and FFP, which is both no good for me. If I am goingh to be paying night vision money for an optic, I'd get the NV first. But for NV pricing and FFP? Nope.

Their 1-4 while at half the cost is at least SFP but when the TR24 exists for half the price of the March 1-4 and weighs a lot less, I really don't see a point anymore
Link Posted: 10/6/2022 2:22:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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First I had ever heard of March optics. Are they any good? Those 1-10 micro's have very excellent specs on them, but it's night vision money and FFP, which is both no good for me. If I am goingh to be paying night vision money for an optic, I'd get the NV first. But for NV pricing and FFP? Nope.

Their 1-4 while at half the cost is at least SFP but when the TR24 exists for half the price of the March 1-4 and weighs a lot less, I really don't see a point anymore
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Yes, very much so high end glass. They don't seem to be a big player at least in the US civvy market, but much like Swaro or Leica they know what they're doing when it comes to optical lenses.
Link Posted: 10/6/2022 7:49:36 PM EDT
[#32]
Link Posted: 10/15/2022 8:11:03 PM EDT
[#33]
I’m also curious about the cans that are on these guns.
Link Posted: 10/16/2022 9:44:19 AM EDT
[#34]
Is LMT in the mix? With the success of the LMT 7.62 variant in service, I’d be surprised if they don’t stick with a DI system.   The newer low back pressure suppressor designs from B&T, OSS (Hux-WRX), among others, levels the playing field.

I still don’t trust Sig (Exeter, NH). Sorry.
Link Posted: 10/16/2022 12:43:48 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is LMT in the mix? With the success of the LMT 7.62 variant in service, I’d be surprised if they don’t stick with a DI system.   The newer low back pressure suppressor designs from B&T, OSS (Hux-WRX), among others, levels the playing field.

I still don’t trust Sig (Exeter, NH). Sorry.
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I think Sig has come a long way
Link Posted: 10/16/2022 5:56:59 PM EDT
[#36]
The KAC rail is interesting. It’s basically a urx 4. I wonder why they aren’t using the new 2.1 rail, like the top rifle in this pic.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 10/16/2022 6:28:31 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The KAC rail is interesting. It’s basically a urx 4. I wonder why they aren’t using the new 2.1 rail, like the top rifle in this pic.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/500232/15A533ED-B6DF-448A-89F9-D099D8CEB114_jpe-2565546.JPG
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In before an autist with OCD starts whining about a hair of a gap with that gas tube sTiCkInG oUt.

And I like that 2.1 but it looks like it's proprietary to that upper receiver judging by the way it's alignment anti cant tabbed into for just that upper only.



Link Posted: 10/16/2022 11:51:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Does it allow for more support when using a Grenade launcher? Just an educated guess.
Link Posted: 10/17/2022 10:41:43 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The KAC rail is interesting. It’s basically a urx 4. I wonder why they aren’t using the new 2.1 rail, like the top rifle in this pic.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/500232/15A533ED-B6DF-448A-89F9-D099D8CEB114_jpe-2565546.JPG
View Quote



URX6. Looks like the URX4, but doesn’t use the integral barrel nut of the URX4. Instead it uses a tongue-in-groove anti-rotation feature like the 416 and KAC USSS rail shown at the top of your pic, with a separate barrel nut.
Link Posted: 10/17/2022 11:30:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

URX6. Looks like the URX4, but doesn’t use the integral barrel nut of the URX4. Instead it uses a tongue-in-groove anti-rotation feature like the 416 and KAC USSS rail shown at the top of your pic, with a separate barrel nut.
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I love how you have inside dope on everything. Why did they go that route then over the URX 4 which arguably is the coolest/lightest rail design?
Link Posted: 10/18/2022 6:21:38 AM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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I love how you have inside dope on everything. Why did they go that route then over the URX 4 which arguably is the coolest/lightest rail design?
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URX6. Looks like the URX4, but doesn't use the integral barrel nut of the URX4. Instead it uses a tongue-in-groove anti-rotation feature like the 416 and KAC USSS rail shown at the top of your pic, with a separate barrel nut.



I love how you have inside dope on everything. Why did they go that route then over the URX 4 which arguably is the coolest/lightest rail design?

Cause using just locktite to keep the handguard in place is
Link Posted: 10/18/2022 9:16:55 AM EDT
[#42]
I was under the impression the solid one piece design if the urx 4 is considered superior and that the 6 and 2.1 ss rails were just by products of .gov requirements and what .gov wants, .gov gets.
Link Posted: 10/18/2022 9:48:49 AM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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URX6. Looks like the URX4, but doesn’t use the integral barrel nut of the URX4. Instead it uses a tongue-in-groove anti-rotation feature like the 416 and KAC USSS rail shown at the top of your pic, with a separate barrel nut.
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So KAC made a URX6 and a "USSS" rail? Why not just one? What prevents the URX6 from sliding off forward?
Link Posted: 10/18/2022 9:56:05 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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So KAC made a URX6 and a "USSS" rail? Why not just one? What prevents the URX6 from sliding off forward?
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USSS rail can be taken off without removing the gas block/tube first.

The assumption is that the URX6 requires the gas block/tube to be removed first, like the URX4
Link Posted: 10/18/2022 5:30:55 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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URX6. Looks like the URX4, but doesn’t use the integral barrel nut of the URX4. Instead it uses a tongue-in-groove anti-rotation feature like the 416 and KAC USSS rail shown at the top of your pic, with a separate barrel nut.
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Interesting. Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/20/2022 1:34:46 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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So KAC made a URX6 and a "USSS" rail? Why not just one? What prevents the URX6 from sliding off forward?
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Yes, because of separate .gov procurement requirements. Buy enough of their rifles and they’ll build to your specs.

No inside dope, but the URX 6 is likely torqued down on threads on the outside diameter of the barrel nut, then prevented from rotating by the tongue and groove arrangement.
Link Posted: 10/20/2022 11:03:03 PM EDT
[#47]
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Cause using just locktite to keep the handguard in place is
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URX6. Looks like the URX4, but doesn't use the integral barrel nut of the URX4. Instead it uses a tongue-in-groove anti-rotation feature like the 416 and KAC USSS rail shown at the top of your pic, with a separate barrel nut.



I love how you have inside dope on everything. Why did they go that route then over the URX 4 which arguably is the coolest/lightest rail design?

Cause using just locktite to keep the handguard in place is


I mean, I understand the hesitance, but I’ve owned and used URX 4s for quite a while and I don’t baby my shit and I’ve never once had a problem.  

I do have problems where a handguard manufacturer uses a traditional separate barrel nut/handguard design and then says you should use Loctite between them to ensure the handguard doesn’t slide forward.  I can’t recall off the top of my head who used to do that, but I know there were a few.

Properly installed, there’s quite a bit more torque holding the URX 4 from loosening than the torque that’s present (usually measured in inch pounds) clamping the handguard in a two piece design to the barrel nut.
Link Posted: 10/29/2022 4:40:43 AM EDT
[#48]
Lantac is teasing a rifle for this program that they claim is in the top 3 on Instagram.
Link Posted: 10/29/2022 8:40:18 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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I mean, I understand the hesitance, but I’ve owned and used URX 4s for quite a while and I don’t baby my shit and I’ve never once had a problem.  

I do have problems where a handguard manufacturer uses a traditional separate barrel nut/handguard design and then says you should use Loctite between them to ensure the handguard doesn’t slide forward.  I can’t recall off the top of my head who used to do that, but I know there were a few.

Properly installed, there’s quite a bit more torque holding the URX 4 from loosening than the torque that’s present (usually measured in inch pounds) clamping the handguard in a two piece design to the barrel nut.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
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URX6. Looks like the URX4, but doesn't use the integral barrel nut of the URX4. Instead it uses a tongue-in-groove anti-rotation feature like the 416 and KAC USSS rail shown at the top of your pic, with a separate barrel nut.



I love how you have inside dope on everything. Why did they go that route then over the URX 4 which arguably is the coolest/lightest rail design?

Cause using just locktite to keep the handguard in place is


I mean, I understand the hesitance, but I’ve owned and used URX 4s for quite a while and I don’t baby my shit and I’ve never once had a problem.  

I do have problems where a handguard manufacturer uses a traditional separate barrel nut/handguard design and then says you should use Loctite between them to ensure the handguard doesn’t slide forward.  I can’t recall off the top of my head who used to do that, but I know there were a few.

Properly installed, there’s quite a bit more torque holding the URX 4 from loosening than the torque that’s present (usually measured in inch pounds) clamping the handguard in a two piece design to the barrel nut.


The urx4 is essentially monolithic. Properly installed, I will not shift or come undone.
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