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Posted: 10/2/2004 4:24:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 4:31:40 PM EDT by black_heart]
Well I F'd Up. I purchased a Model 1 20" 1/9" upper that had about 800 rounds through it and it sucks. In fact sucks doesn't even describe it. All my other AR's are sub MOA. Most of them are about 3/8" at 100 yards. The model 1 wouldn't even group the rounds. I guess I would have to take the half the Radius to even get an average. I'd say 2.5" to 3" distance between rounds. I should have done some home work before I purchased it and asked some questions but I honestly didn't think it would be that inferior. I guess I know now to stick with Colt, RRA, Bushy Oly or other good barrels. I'm really dissapointed. I can't imagine what would make it so inaccurate. he
Live and learn I guess.

Semper Fi
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 4:32:32 PM EDT
Have you checked for excessive copper fouling?

You might try a product called wipe-out and let the barrel sit over night before removing the cleaning agent (might have to re-apply and take 2-3 nights). I'd try some serious maintenance procedures before I'd just chuck it out the window...
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 5:00:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 5:03:38 PM EDT by Maddogkiller]
Look for wear in the throat , damage or wear at the crown, and make sure that the sights are tight. The above advice is solid considering the information that you provided.

What types/weight bullets are you shooting?
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 5:29:20 PM EDT
Well, I'VE never had a Model-1 shoot like that (Doesn't mean it can't happen).

One thing you might want to check too (In addition to fouling and ammo choice) is, believe it or not, if the BBL is attached tight. We had a kid with the same problem on a range about a year and a half ago with a new (We'd had it for about a year but it'd only been used to qualify once) Colt M-16A4. He couldn't get a "Group" to save his life.

I tried shooting it from the sandbags prone three rounds and I got about a 3 1/2 in "Group' (After a close to 3/8 with my own weapon). I thought maybe somehow his front-sight tower had become loose and grabbed it (the front site) while holding the rifle around the reciever and tried to twist it. The whole BBL assembly twisted! It had probably a quarter inch of "Play" (Back and forth) in it. Weird! We deadlined it and sent it to depot. Never seen anything like it before or since. Anyway, just a thought.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 5:30:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 5:48:06 PM EDT by _DR]
You know 2.5-3 MOA isn't all that bad for a basic battle rifle. True, ARs and M16s are usually more accurate than that, but if can you hit center mass of a man sized target at 100 meters? If so, its still a deadly weapon. many military FN FALs, Cetmes, G-3s that have seen some action, etc probably aren't all that much better with iron sights at 100 meters. Most AK variants certainly aren't. Maybe you are just expecting too much from a Model1Sales rifle with it's E.R. Shaw 4140 steel barrel.

Don't forget military basic rifle qual is done using man sized targets, not X-rings.

Just something to consider.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 5:46:12 PM EDT
I feel your pain. I bought a used A3 Wilson upper and it shoots all over the place. I have a TA31 on a Larue mount on it. Beware of the EE.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 11:53:57 PM EDT
I'll go get it from outside in the yard after I chucked it out the window already. LOL I'll soak it in Murcury first then try a good copper remover and follow that up with a good cleaning. I've checked it for damage and I can't find any, or fouling, under 30x Magnification but that doesn't mean it's not there. I checked the barrel and as far as I can tell it's tight as a virgin on prom night.

I know it's still a deadly weapon. ;) After all, I can still bash someone over the head with it. *chuckle*

I just get frustrated with a weapon that doesn't do it's part. If I can't nail a Quarter @ 100 Yards I'm not happy. My other rifles are a Bushy Varminter 24", Colt Sporter Compatition HBAR 20", and Olympic M.F.R. 20". All of them are SUB MOA and will keep up neck and neck with my Savage Model 12 FVSS with Acu-Trigger.

Thanks for the tips and I'll keep you posted.

Semper Fi,

Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:19:55 AM EDT
Does it have a muzzle break?
I have seen more than one accurate rifle ruined when a break was attached.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 7:25:41 AM EDT
That would be muzzle 'brake'.

And that seems pretty odd...I haven't heard of any other Model 1 customers that have had this problem.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:42:46 PM EDT
Trying Wipe-Out is a good idea. I've never been a big fan of "miracle" chemicals, but this stuff has made a believer out of this shooter! One application leaving it soak in the bore for about an hour took so much crap out of a barrel that I cleaned previously (Shooters choice, the whole routine) that it amazed me. It works so well that you'll probably have to run a few rounds through your barrel after you use it to re-season the bore so that your zero will return.

Of course I can't swear that this will cure your problem, but I've seen more that a few barrels condemned as faulty when they were only (badly) fouled!

On the other hand, there might be a very good reason that your barrel turned up on the used market. Every barrel maker screws up now and then. Only the assholes knowingly ship their mistakes and only asshole dealers and distributors knowingly sell them to the public .
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:49:14 PM EDT
A few years ago I bought a model 1 sales 20" stainless upper. At first I had horrible accuracy results, then I floated it, that tightened up the groups considerably, but overall I can't much accuracy past 150yds. The best I can muster with all my trick-of-the-week equipment is about 2" with a wide variety of different bullet, powder, brass and primer combos. Nothing works! I beginning to think that the model 1 upper is not capable of that kind of accuracy. I'm at the point where I think i'll invest in a good upper and be a cheap ass. You get what you pay for
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:51:31 PM EDT
You already know the basics, clean the heck out of the barrel, check the crown, look for pitting, and finally check the barrel over to make sure it isn't loose or anythign else obvious.

Good luck.
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