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Posted: 8/26/2005 6:15:11 PM EDT
I'm currently looking at 3 different M4 clones. They are the RRA "Entry Tactical", Colt 6920 or the LMT. They all have the chrome-lined barrel but I am aware that the RRA has the 1/9 compared to Colt's and LMT's 1/7.

If you have experience/knowledge about the differences/characteristics of any of the above, you info would be appreciated. Thanks.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:46:16 PM EDT
I like RRA, but I'm speaking more from an economical viewpoint. For all the detailed facts about each and how they differ maybe someone else will be along shortly.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:51:25 PM EDT
If you have a limited budget, RRA is an excellent gun for the money, but like you said, it's only available in 1/9" twist. If will only be shooting 55 and 62 grain ammo, either will suffice. If you want the option of shooting the heavier loads (75, 77 grain, etc.) then you will want a 1/7" twist. Bushmaster also makes some barrels with a 1/7" twist.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:51:33 PM EDT
Go Colt or go home.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:10:25 PM EDT
My budget is limited to the fact I'm trying to stay around 1200 at my max. I like the features that the RRA comes with but I haven't found anyone who has them in stock. Now I have found plenty of 6920's around in the 1100.00 range. I'm thinking about just buying the colt and later upgrading to the 2-stage trigger. My main concern is the warranty (RRA is lifetime and I'm not really sure what Colt's warranty is) and the features for the money. If I can justify the extra $ for quality that's fine, but if it's just the name then I would consider other rifles.

What type of warranty does the Colt come with?
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:19:17 PM EDT
I wish I had that budget when I bought mine....

I would personally still go RRA and use the extra cash for accessories and/or ammo and magazines. I'm not sure what they have in stock but look at ADCO. I got my RRA upper from them and it has been great!!

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:20:23 PM EDT
I have a Colt 6920 and a RRA and a Ameetec lower with LMT upper. IMHO The colt is the best for my money. I love them all though.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:32:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 7:34:56 PM EDT by CJan_NH]
There are several Colts, several Rock Rivers, and two LMT M4 uppers in my collection. Overall I've had great luck with all of them and consider them all to be top shelf products.

The Colt and LMT uppers will be almost impossible to tell apart aside from the manufacturers marks. Both will feature:

-4150 barrel steel
-M4 feedramps with proper M4 barrel extension
-Fully chrome-lined chamber and barrel
-1/7 twist barrels
-Milspec height front sight base
-RAS markings ("T" numbers) on the upper receiver rail
-Magnaflux particle tested (not sure if the LMT is proof load fired though)

The Colt will have a front side sling mount and handguards with dual heatshields.

The RRA, while lacking some of the features above is still a kickass blaster. The entry tactical comes with RRA's two stage trigger if I'm not mistaken, and that's a $100 "freebie"

Any one of those rifles will outlast you and your children. Both Colt and RRA have lifetime warranties as well (admittedly I have no idea about LMT's warranty).

If I were you, I'd find the rifle that had the most features that were important to you and buy accordingly. In this particular case I'm going to commit blasphemy and say that brand name is less important than the features you want.

Considering that I'm a card carrying member of the Colt Cult that says a lot. I think I need to wash my mouth out with soap



Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:40:39 PM EDT
i would go colt or lmt

the last rra i bought had dremeled feedramps
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:41:49 PM EDT
I'm very familiar with the Colt rifles, been carrying an M4 for the past 2 years and I am impressed with their quality/reliability. With that being said, I did handle a RRA today and tested the 2-stage trigger...VERY NICE! Since I have a tendency to be an impatient person and I've only got another 45 days to get the "military" prices(at least until I complete the police academy) I'm more than likely going to buy the Colt and upgrade it with the 2-stage trigger group. Who knows, maybe our CATM guy will do it for free. The hogue grip really didnt' do much for me and is an easy upgrade for 20.00. The rifle didn't have the 6-position stock though. I haven't really had any issues with the standard 4 pos so I'm probably just second-guessing myself before I drop the $.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:51:45 PM EDT
COLT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:55:16 PM EDT
BUSHMASTER!!!
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:03:01 PM EDT
Colt
LMT
RRA

In that order.

I had seven Colts and one LMT for now.

I'm planning to get Stag Arms, RRA and other brands next time.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:39:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By theshootersden:
BUSHMASTER!!!





+1
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:42:36 PM EDT
Your First Choice should be Colt, Followed by LMT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:15:10 PM EDT
Colt.....if it ain't a pony; its just a phony...
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:31:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shortarm53:
Colt.....if it ain't a pony; its just a phony...



if there isnt a snake it's just a fake


Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:40:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By shortarm53:
Colt.....if it ain't a pony; its just a phony...



if there isnt a snake it's just a fake




Stag: If there aint no deer it's pretty queer.

When you see the deer you've got nothing to fear.

Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:01:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2005 12:05:45 AM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By shortarm53:
Colt.....if it ain't a pony; its just a phony...



if there isnt a snake it's just a fake




Stag: If there aint no deer it's pretty queer.

When you see the deer you've got nothing to fear.




Rock River makes others quiver.

OK, that's about enough of that



I think the time of night is getting to everyone.



WIZZO
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:02:13 AM EDT
I used to say bushy was good but as of late I wouldn't recommend them. Go with the Colt.

Link Posted: 8/27/2005 3:45:02 AM EDT
First, listen to CJan_NH's advice.

Second, since all of your choices are excellent go with what fits your budget. Keep in mind that after you purchase the carbine you will still need to purchase mags and ammo so don't forget to factor that in as well.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:26:51 AM EDT
I was recently in the same dilemma as yourself. I purchased an LMT upper from Bravo Company USA and an LMT lower from Dennysguns. I will admit that due to Colts attitude toward us "Civilians" they were not on my list of possibilities. I vote with my dollar. My son will soon be the recipient of my Commander and I will never purchase another Colt product (I've carried a Colt pistol for most of the last 33 years). Politics aside, who wants to worry about pin-hole size diferences ? The LMT is extremely high quality and closest to mil-spec., as far as things like diam. of buffer tube, etc.,. One consideration for me is that the upper "Drop-in" on a military lower. No, I'm not a Wacko-Wannabe Suvivalist Nut. The upper will go with me if I gain employment OCUNUS. I do ubderstand that everyones needs/politics are different. Ray
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:54:03 AM EDT
RRA's are the shit check out the DEA gov't model it's awesome
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 6:34:23 AM EDT
Clan_NH:
Where can I buy Colt uppers?
(I'm also in NH!)
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 7:34:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ferretray:
I was recently in the same dilemma as yourself. I purchased an LMT upper from Bravo Company USA and an LMT lower from Dennysguns. I will admit that due to Colts attitude toward us "Civilians" they were not on my list of possibilities. I vote with my dollar. My son will soon be the recipient of my Commander and I will never purchase another Colt product (I've carried a Colt pistol for most of the last 33 years). Politics aside, who wants to worry about pin-hole size diferences ? The LMT is extremely high quality and closest to mil-spec., as far as things like diam. of buffer tube, etc.,. One consideration for me is that the upper "Drop-in" on a military lower. No, I'm not a Wacko-Wannabe Suvivalist Nut. The upper will go with me if I gain employment OCUNUS. I do ubderstand that everyones needs/politics are different. Ray



Politics? LMT won't even sell rifles to us. Buffer tubes are correct, the LMT buffer tube is simply a copy of the Colt's, heck the whole LMT is a copy of Colt's rifle. And a current production Colt's upper is a drop in on a USGI lower, and even comes with a full auto carrier.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 7:50:55 AM EDT
I have LMT's. The rifles you have selected are all top notch. Since you are considering the RRA you might want to explore CMT more. All of your selections are just fine. The 1/7 vs 1/9 issue seems to be more of an academic problem rather than a practical problem for the vast majority of shooters.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 8:01:19 AM EDT
From what I've read the the 1/7 vs 1/9 will only come into effect with bullets weighing +62gr. Hypothetically, if you were given two barrels of equal length/quality/materials with the only difference being the twist, which one will tend to be more accurate w/ the majority of factory loads.

I've found plenty of links where I can purchase M193 in bulk and the factory loads seem to cater to the 55gr weight.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 10:12:57 AM EDT
my last two ARs were a RRA and an LMT. if I had it to do over again, I would have just bought a Colt.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 10:26:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2005 10:34:13 AM EDT by _DR]
I'd say either Colt or Stag over RRA.

The reason, in my opinion, is because Colt is the best overall and Stag is the best Value for the money. The Colt will have higher resale value and probably better QC, but the Stag is made by CMT and comes very close. Easily as good as Rock River, but less costly because less well known. Both are essentially made from CMT parts. Honestly don't know much about LMT because I have never had one.

The Colt would be something you could proudly hand down to future generations of your family.
(OK I am being serious when I say this but you can flame away now )
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 10:44:50 AM EDT
Colt

Max
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 11:51:17 AM EDT
LMT!
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:46:09 PM EDT
I'd piece together an RRA, or buy the Colt. I myself would prefer a build, and RRA seems perfect in that aspect. If I was looking for an out of the box AR, (keep in mind you can't get a true out of the box LMT as a civilian) I'd buy a Colt. I'm sure you would have no problems with an out of the box RRA either though.

So if you want to put it together yourself, RRA.

If you want to just get an out of the box, Colt.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 3:52:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ekie:

Originally Posted By ferretray:
I was recently in the same dilemma as yourself. I purchased an LMT upper from Bravo Company USA and an LMT lower from Dennysguns. I will admit that due to Colts attitude toward us "Civilians" they were not on my list of possibilities. I vote with my dollar. My son will soon be the recipient of my Commander and I will never purchase another Colt product (I've carried a Colt pistol for most of the last 33 years). Politics aside, who wants to worry about pin-hole size diferences ? The LMT is extremely high quality and closest to mil-spec., as far as things like diam. of buffer tube, etc.,. One consideration for me is that the upper "Drop-in" on a military lower. No, I'm not a Wacko-Wannabe Suvivalist Nut. The upper will go with me if I gain employment OCUNUS. I do ubderstand that everyones needs/politics are different. Ray



Politics? LMT won't even sell rifles to us. Buffer tubes are correct, the LMT buffer tube is simply a copy of the Colt's, heck the whole LMT is a copy of Colt's rifle. And a current production Colt's upper is a drop in on a USGI lower, and even comes with a full auto carrier.



Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I'm going to sell my LMT and rush right out to get that Colt. No, I believe I'll stick with the "Colt copy". I spent less time actually acquiring my LMT than I did trying to wade through the mess of BS involved with the Colt. They say the public has a short memory. Do the words "Law enforcement and military only" sound familiar. It's not stamped anywhere on my LMT.YMMV. Ray
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:17:31 PM EDT
I have a Colt HBAR AR-15 and a RRA M-4. I like them both equally. The only real difference is price and opinions about them.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:09:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ferretray:
I spent less time actually acquiring my LMT than I did trying to wade through the mess of BS involved with the Colt. They say the public has a short memory. Do the words "Law enforcement and military only" sound familiar. It's not stamped anywhere on my LMT.YMMV. Ray



Wade thru BS, and LEO only. Like I was saying, you got it back words. Do a 7 day search on 6920 and LMT. I got three hits on no BS 6920's for sale:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=292339

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=289302

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=243559

I found one hit for a LMT for sale:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=255335

Guess what? The LMT is LEO only. So who is BS'ing whom here? Why won't LMT sell us rifles?
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:12:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2005 5:16:43 PM EDT by Variablebinary]
The Department of Justice, FBI, and the DEA issue RRA carbines. They trust RRA to put the bad guys to sleep and bring the good guys home safe and sound.

RRA won a very lucrative contract as the result of an open competition featuring prominant names like SIG and Colt. This contract can be verified and is on record for anyone to look up. Try finding LMT, Bushmaster or Stag contracts on record

RRA survived every torture test thrown at it in the DOJ trials with flying colors. Almost every AR15 maker you can name participated and FAILED to make it to round two

People can say what they want but RRA has proven they make a product that matches and exceeds some of the biggest names in the firearms industry in a direct head to head competition.

Not bad for a company that has been making AR's for like 5 years

RRA also fully supports our 2nd amendment rights buy openly selling a full line of firearms in both the public and federal goverment markets. That is a company we should be backing. RRA has never sold us out with back door deals even when uncle same cuts the checks that keep the lights on.

Do not support gun companies that want to undermine the constitution.

Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:24:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
The Department of Justice, FBI, and the DEA issue RRA carbines. They trust RRA to put the bad guys to sleep and bring the good guys home safe and sound.

RRA won a very lucrative contract as the result of an open competition featuring prominant names like SIG and Colt. This contract can be verified and is on record for anyone to look up. Try finding LMT, Bushmaster or Stag contracts on record

RRA survived every torture test thrown at it in the DOJ trials with flying colors. Almost every AR15 maker you can name participated and FAILED to make it to round two

People can say what they want but RRA has proven they make a product that matches and exceeds some of the biggest names in the firearms industry in a direct head to head competition.

Not bad for a company that has been making AR's for like 5 years

RRA also fully supports our 2nd amendment rights buy openly selling a full line of firearms in both the public and federal goverment markets. That is a company we should be backing. RRA has never sold us out with back door deals even when uncle same cuts the checks that keep the lights on.

Do not support gun companies that want to undermine the constitution.




That is a strong arguement. These same agencies also issue Colt's and SIG's.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 5:39:18 AM EDT
I'm certainly not BS'ing anybody. I don't like unnecessary BS. I get that from Colt. LMT apparently is not selling complete rifles. I had two respected vendors from this site send me the upper/lower= rifle.
no muss, no fuss. I don't buy Levi's either, although I did for decades. They want to jump on the fee-good anti wagon, they won't do it with my money. The obvious fact is that Colt could GAF about the civilian market. Ray
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 5:54:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2005 6:00:41 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By ferretray:
I'm certainly not BS'ing anybody. I don't like unnecessary BS. I get that from Colt. LMT apparently is not selling complete rifles. I had two respected vendors from this site send me the upper/lower= rifle.
no muss, no fuss. I don't buy Levi's either, although I did for decades. They want to jump on the fee-good anti wagon, they won't do it with my money. The obvious fact is that Colt could GAF about the civilian market. Ray



LMT vendors won't sell a complete M4 type rifle to a civilian, but Colt vendors will, and yet you still bash Colt and praise LMT?

An LMT upper and lower is not a complete rifle if purchased separately, a complete Colt LE carbine complete in the box it came in with lifetime warranty that IS honored for civilians is in fact a complete rifle sold to civilians. LMT will not do this. I don't bash LMT, they make good stuff, but lets call it like it is.

There's just no pleasing some people.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 6:16:25 AM EDT
RRA is supplied by CMT, correct? Then either one is a good pick, RRA or STAG.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 6:32:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ferretray:
I'm certainly not BS'ing anybody. I don't like unnecessary BS. I get that from Colt. LMT apparently is not selling complete rifles. I had two respected vendors from this site send me the upper/lower= rifle.
no muss, no fuss. I don't buy Levi's either, although I did for decades. They want to jump on the fee-good anti wagon, they won't do it with my money. The obvious fact is that Colt could GAF about the civilian market. Ray



Guess you missed the thread were someone asked LMT why they would not sell use complete rifles?
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 7:30:55 AM EDT
I have a Colt and a RRA tactical entry and I've also owned a Bushy. Of the three, Colt wins hands down. Superb quality, flawless action, true M4 feed ramps, and a high resale value, if that matters to you. RRA comes in second, a real nice shooter for the money, I think I paid $750 from Eagle Firearms and it came with a chrome lined barrel and two stage trigger, a real bargain to say the least. Wasn't real happy with the Bushy, rough trigger, USGI mags failed to drop free, and bolt failed to stay open after last round 75% of the time. Thats why I had to let her go. If you got the cake go with the Colt, you won't be disapointed. This is only my opinion based on my experiences.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 7:34:49 AM EDT
i have a RRA upper and an LMT upper no troubles with either. i think they are both good quality.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 7:43:29 AM EDT
LMTs are nice, But when in doubt I always go COLT!
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 6:50:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CK:
RRA is supplied by CMT, correct? Then either one is a good pick, RRA or STAG.



Actually there is a consensus that CMT provides some parts to RRA, just like there is a consensus that CMT provides parts to colt. Not that this matters because Where the parts come from isnt as important as the end product.

Stag/CMT is not the same as RRA, or Colt for that matter.

If I ordered an RRA and got a stag, I'd be pissed. Nothing against Stag, but RRA builds their DEA weapons and Civilian weapons in the exact same way in the same facilities with the same parts from the same vendors, just like Colt builds their 6920 with the same standards as the M4. RRA doesnt skimp or pull parts from the bargin bin just because it's going to joe schmo dealer instead of the DOJ

When you buy RRA you know what you're getting. I know their fabrication and testing methods resulted in a weapon that sits in the armories of federal agencies along SIG and Colt. Sorry but a competing brand doesnt get that level of credibility just because it shares a handful of common parts
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 7:21:27 PM EDT
Before this turns into a sh*tfest, didn't we find out that LMT isn't offering complete rifles to civilians yet because they don't have the manufacturing capacity yet, therefore only releasing them to LEO/Mil guys, which probably a smaller market, would still allow them to sell some rifles, yet keep everything within levels that they can keep up with at this time?

And everyone on here pretty much knows I'm a big fan of RRA, but I just want to say something on the DEA subject.

RRA, SIG, and Colt all got contracts in those tests, IIRC. I think RRA even got one of the smaller contracts; it wasn't huge. CJan_NH had the specs a couple months back and SIG and Colt had bigger contracts, IIRC.

Well, I have nothing else to add to this thread................

<­BR>[Mayor Quimby]Vote Rock River...[Mayor Quimby]



WIZZO
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 7:50:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:
Before this turns into a sh*tfest, didn't we find out that LMT isn't offering complete rifles to civilians yet because they don't have the manufacturing capacity yet, therefore only releasing them to LEO/Mil guys, which probably a smaller market, would still allow them to sell some rifles, yet keep everything within levels that they can keep up with at this time?

And everyone on here pretty much knows I'm a big fan of RRA, but I just want to say something on the DEA subject.

RRA, SIG, and Colt all got contracts in those tests, IIRC. I think RRA even got one of the smaller contracts; it wasn't huge. CJan_NH had the specs a couple months back and SIG and Colt had bigger contracts, IIRC.

Well, I have nothing else to add to this thread................



[Mayor Quimby]Vote Rock River...[Mayor Quimby]

hr



SIG $115,142,537.00 37% of the contract
Colt $113,639,340.00 36% of the contract
RRA $85,923,935.00 27% of the contract

RRA < than SIG by 10%
RRA < Than Colt by 9%

These arent big margins considering the dollar amounts in relation to the size of the companies

In addition RRA couldnt commit to a larger order due to production capacity. They couldnt deliever more units so no matter what they werent going to get a larger order

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 7:54:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:06:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Just say no to non std. trigger groups, and sear blocks. If you don't know what I am talking about then you know nothing about Colt.



Bah. If you are taking the M16 as the "standard" then every commercial AR has something that is "non-standard", bar none.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:20:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shortarm53:
Colt.....if it ain't a pony; its just a phony...





+1
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:20:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Illinigunner21:
Go Colt or go home.

+1
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