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Posted: 1/3/2003 3:43:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/3/2003 3:52:45 PM EST by Rifleman308]
I've been negotiating w/ a member of this board to purchase an AR type since before Christmas. I've found the gentleman to be completely reliable thus far, and have spoken w/ him over the phone. We've traded a ton of email about the rifle and the sale.

When I told him that my FFL wanted to deal directly w/ his FFL and trade the paperwork before I sent him the purchase price (over $1,400), he said that he won't even begin the process until he's paid in full. He states that he's done hundreds of gun and equipment sales over the Internet, and this is how all of his prior sales have gone, so I need to follow his procedure now.

My question: Is this standard? I've never done an out-of-state deal before, so I've been very careful to craft a comprehensive e-contract, but he thus far will not sign off on any terms of the deal. He has not identified his FFL so I can begin the paperwork, but he wants payment in full up front.

Again, I don't distrust him, but I don't know him at all, either. I'm REAL hesitant to just send him $1,400+ when he won't even sign off on an e-contract.

What do you guys think? Move on? Or is this how it always works?

Thanks for any replies.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:01:38 PM EST
i bought a lower last year from an ffl, i had to pay him first. of course he was an ffl so i wasnt to worried and it was a lot less than 1400.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:02:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:09:40 PM EST
I have no problem w/ paying in full before he ships the rifle/goodies, but I have a real problem w/ paying a nickel before he'll even identify his FFL. I'll see if I can work it out w/ him. If not, anyone know of a pre-ban BM or Eagle Arms NIB or LNIB 20" for sale? I'd also consider an excellent pre-ban lower from either of these manufacturers. Thanks. I'd also like more input on my post as well.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:13:29 PM EST
Let me get this straight, he wants your payment in hand before he'll let you send the FFL paperwork to his FFL holder? Sounds strange but he must have some reason, did you ask him why? [>:/] I usually send the payment out the same day I ask my FFL to send the paperwork. My payment usually always arrives before the paperwork does so this has never been a problem for me. Just ask you FFL to send the paperwork to his FFL and drop your payment in the mail...what does he care if it arrives a day later? [;D] If I were in that situation I would probably cancel the deal and find another one. Good luck! Marc
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:16:41 PM EST
...but I have a real problem w/ paying a nickel before he'll even identify his FFL...
View Quote
That is what I find strange. Why can't you get the FFL ball rolling while you get your payment sent off? Good luck keep us posted.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:20:47 PM EST
This may be a dumb question since I have never bought or sold from a private party over the internet. But here it goes. I know the buyer needs to receive the gun through an FFL, but why does the seller need to go through an FFL? Can't he ship directly to the buyers FFL after he receives payment and copy of buyers FFL info?
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:24:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By chdaal4: This may be a dumb question since I have never bought or sold from a private party over the internet. But here it goes. I know the buyer needs to receive the gun through an FFL, but why does the seller need to go through an FFL? Can't he ship directly to the buyers FFL after he receives payment and copy of buyers FFL info?
View Quote
yes! this is how I've made my many internet firearms purchases.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:27:59 PM EST
You could send the signed copy of the FFL and USPS Money orders to his Dealer with the provision that he ships it same day as he releases the Funds. I'd have NO problem selling that way if it were my gun... [:)>]
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:31:18 PM EST
Rifleman308: Find a different FFL who will accept transfers from a citizen. Yes, you are expected to pay up front. Go with Troy's advice as a fall back. Ed
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:32:41 PM EST
In this instance, the law differs from the practice quite considerably. Some FFLs are hesitant to send copies of their paperwork to anyone other than another registered FFL. It's like flying blind to them, so they don't like to do it. In this instance, every FFL in my neck of the woods (WI) wants to do this deal only through an FFL on the seller's end. I've even agreed to pay the seller's FFL costs in the deal, by accepting fewer goodies along w/ the rifle. Again, my problem is the totally one-sided nature of the deal he proposes. He signs nothing, won't identify his FFL, and won't act to get the paperwork going until I pay in full. If it was a couple of hundred bucks, I might just do it. But the deal is over $1,400. Even w/ a postal money order to protect me against fraud, I still hang my ass out in the wind while hoping I'm dealing w/ a straight shooter. Thanks for the input so far. I'd like more if anyone has the time.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:43:22 PM EST
It seems to me that since the seller holds most of the power in a transaction such as this he would be more understanding to the concerns of the buyer and do his best to put him at ease. I would tend to lean towards Troy's advice. If you are not comfortable in the deal, $1400 is a lot to lose.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:47:31 PM EST
If the seller is NOT an FFL why does he need a copy of the license? If he does his due diligence via: [url=http://204.254.113.252/]ATF EZ Check[/url] He can check your FFL info via the first 3 and last 5 digits of his license #. This will verify the address and name of your FFL. If he is a licensee he will need a copy. However, it sounds as he is not to be held to the licensee standard since he keeps no bound book. Somebody else may be able to elaborate. But you should read the ATF guidelines regarding non-licensees. Ed
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:47:31 PM EST
I recently purchased a lower from a member here and since he wasn't an FFL holder my local dealer sent him a FFL Transfer Sheet. I don't know that is but see if your FFL could do something like that.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 6:39:18 PM EST
Update: Things seems to be working out. After sharing w/ the seller my discomfort about the deal's structure, the seller provided certain information and assurances that GREATLY increased my confidence in him and the deal. He also agreed to sign off on an e-contract, memorializing the terms of our deal, tomorrow evening. We're back on track, and I'm again looking forward to receiving my pre-ban AR. The power of trust is amazing, isn't it? Thanks to all for the quick posts.
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