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Posted: 10/8/2004 9:57:07 AM EST
In a couple of months, I will be starting in a new career as a Police Officer, and I will have the option to use my personal AR as a patrol rifle. Thus, I am trying to figure out a weapon light and duty light combo that makes sense.

I like the idea of having the same lamps work in both lights. Thus a M951C and 6P combo in attractive.

But I also like the idea of having more output so I lean toward the 9V lights. The problem here is that the M961C takes a different lamp than the 9P, and I would prefer to not spend the additional $120+ on a M3 for a duty light.

Any input on this would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeff
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:46:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 4:40:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By BrightFlashlights:
If you didn't mind the dull look of the Classic series weaponslights you could get a Classic 6v system and then have an A19 & 9v lamps on standby to go on either the weaponslight or your 6P. You could even convert a M951 to a 9v with an A12 (black subspacer) & the P90/91 lamps but you won't have a matching setup.



This is "the man" to talk to about flashlights, listen to what he says. I however run an M961 on my rifle with a clicker tail cap. I had an M951 with a tape switch but I sold it to get an Aimpoint. It was the toughest decision I ever made, the 951 was just as good as the 961 for the distances I use it at and compact enough as well.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 12:40:00 PM EST
Spend the extra $$$ for a SureFire M3 now, you won't regret it. I have one on my AR and one on my belt. Don't cut corners when it comes to your weapons or your flashlights.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:45:35 PM EST
I am also a police officer and trust me, spend the little extra money and buy the light you want, your life may depend on it. I have the 6V surefire forend on my Remington 870 and the surefire millinium M500A forend light on my carbine. I love both of those lights and if you work at night they are a MUST because you cannot hold a rifle and a flashlight at the same time and be effective. Good luck in law enforcement, if you need any help feel free to ask.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 3:53:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By charliehorse794:
I am also a police officer and trust me, spend the little extra money and buy the light you want, your life may depend on it. I have the 6V surefire forend on my Remington 870 and the surefire millinium M500A forend light on my carbine. I love both of those lights and if you work at night they are a MUST because you cannot hold a rifle and a flashlight at the same time and be effective. Good luck in law enforcement, if you need any help feel free to ask.



I agree with this, I am a six year veteran of law enforcement (uncle sam has me on loan right now ) and I would say to go with an MU or any dedicated weaponslight. $300.00 flashlight=No worries. I would most deffinately get a seperate light for your rifle and one for carry. The M951 is one hell of a light and you will not be dissapointed at all. Also, have you looked at the G2Z's as a carry light? I have several G2's that I use but I am thinking about getting a G2Z for a carry light if I go back to being an LEO. That and an M951 would be a great combo to get I think. I kinda wish I would have sold my 961 instead now...
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 12:13:42 AM EST
I've got a M96 for my carbine. That thing throws some light! Although I do not own a 6V to compare it to, I'll always get 9V. With a 9V you can definately see what you're aiming at.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 1:11:06 AM EST
9V on a carbine.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:59:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By newbe:
I've got a M96 for my carbine. That thing throws some light! Although I do not own a 6V to compare it to, I'll always get 9V. With a 9V you can definately see what you're aiming at.



The 9V is rather blinding.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:41:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By BrightFlashlights:

If you didn't mind the dull look of the Classic series weaponslights you could get a Classic 6v system and then have an A19 & 9v lamps on standby to go on either the weaponslight or your 6P. You could even convert a M951 to a 9v with an A12 (black subspacer) & the P90/91 lamps but you won't have a matching setup.




BF sold me that setup awhile back. Works well.


click for pics/review

Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:09:47 AM EST
I am completely convinced of the superiority of the 9 V lights, handheld and weaponmount. They are only slightly longer and heavier, and I prefer the output of the 105 lu 9V lamp to the 120 lu 6V lamp. The beamshaper on the brighter lights can diffuse the output into a wider beam for indoor or closer-range use, then flip out of the way for longer range.

Don't skimp on potentially life-saving hardware. I cheaped out early on, and I won't do it again. I highly recommend carrying backup light, especially something lower-output and longer-runtime than a M3 or Turbo light, to preserve the bigger light for bigger jobs.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:18:12 AM EST
tagged
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:47:19 AM EST
Brighter is always better.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 5:24:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 5:30:34 PM EST by Robert2011]
I am a believer in the 9v systems with the 225 lumen bulbs. There is no such thing as too much light when your talking about the relatively small flashlights we put on rifles. When you go from a 125 to a 225 it is not double the light either. But it is enough to make a difference when you need to see across a field or identify whether a bad guy is holding a cell phone or a pistol in his hand. Bright lights save lives.





And get this book: "Fight At Night : Tools, Techniques, Tactics, And Training For Combat In
Low Light And Darkness" Andy Stanford;$15.40 at Amazon.



Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:43:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 12:51:54 PM EST by blikbok]
The high-output lamps seem to have the same intensity as the standard ones, but the area of the hotspot is 2-3x larger.

dryhten: www.meridiantactical.com has the Surefire 9P in limited quantites, but it also uses a different lamp. To be honest, I would buy a Shock-Isolated light like the M3 or M2 for LE duty. If the light gets knocked around it will still light.

Also, the lamps aren't that expensive, not enough to justify the cost of a handheld to share them. But the M3 is a nice light.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:54:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Robert2011:










I like the turbohead for a light like that:

Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:03:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By Robert2011:
www.surefire.com/surefire/content/m962p_full.jpg


I like the turbohead for a light like that:
photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=141&iGalleryUnq=1637&iImageUnq=29374



I've wondered about the Turbohead.

How much further does it reach out in the fields and how much peripheral area is lost close in?

Does it still have enough peripheral coverage for a house clearing?
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:09:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 11:16:34 PM EST
Brighter is not always better. Try pointing a 10 million candle power spot light at a wall directly in front of you. You get a lot of the light back in your face, which will destroy any night vision you've built up. Light off a ton of light inside a small room from working with tasking light. Everyones blinded, including you.
You don't run through the area with the light going full blast the whole time. You use light etiquette in order to ID your target, then disengage the light while you are advancing.
This can differ from absolute zero light to full bore, or from tasking illumination to full bore. Lighting (including some lasers) like tracers work both ways.
I prefer the 125 lumens over the 225 simply because it is easier on your eyes to adapt back and forth.
Now you can discuss differing colors of illumination on which benefits what you're doing the most. IE: Huntings, maintaining night vision, tracking blood and so on.
For most civilian use, the light is simply a device to ID the subject before dealing death. There is usually very little tasking, or attempting to close with the subject for a non lethal takedown.
As for tasking in IR, you'll begin hearing that criminals are becoming much more sophisticated. As with my house, I have security cameras established that can see into the IR spectrum. Subjects closing with active IR equipment are going to show up like a joker flashing around a regular flash light. These cameras start at 150 dollars and up. Note the major migration to passive night vision because of this problem.
-Steve
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 12:01:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 12:16:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Ive found the 6v 952 to do just about everything urban environments.

I prefer the 9v 962 for the open spaces.

I could get by with either, so if you're only going to have ONE light on one gun, you arent losing by going with the 9v.



what about weight? 6v is fine... i think i'm going with the scout series.... i want an L2 head on it though
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 12:21:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:57:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By stevenb:
Brighter is not always better. Try pointing a 10 million candle power spot light at a wall directly in front of you. You get a lot of the light back in your face, which will destroy any night vision you've built up. Light off a ton of light inside a small room from working with tasking light. Everyones blinded, including you.
...
This can differ from absolute zero light to full bore, or from tasking illumination to full bore. Lighting (including some lasers) like tracers work both ways.
I prefer the 125 lumens over the 225 simply because it is easier on your eyes to adapt back and forth.



This is why I outfit all of my SF's with the tip-off Beamshaper. I prefer the 9 V with beamshaper to any 6 V lamp. The hotspot dissappears and becomes a 45-degree beam. It's the Un-Turbo. Indoors, beamshaper. Outdoors, no beamshaper.

In my experience, the high output lamp assemblies aren't more intense, they are more light in a wider cones.

IIRC, the 6V to 9V difference is one cell, one inch, and 1.5 oz for almost any light.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 6:59:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2004 6:59:53 AM EST by bsbg]

Originally Posted By blikbok:

IIRC, the 6V to 9V difference is one cell, one inch, and 1.5 oz for almost any light.



That sounds about right. For me, the 9v is the way to go - not too bright indoors, but much more useful outdoors. I have one Turbohead and think of it as a specialty tool more than a GP light.

Of course, there are some who advocate searching with a standard and a Turbohead on the weapon. Not a bad idea, but you lose the bulb interchangeability that way. Never an easy decision....
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