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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/27/2005 2:53:57 PM EDT
Just received 1K XM193 from lot number 102. I inspected 80 rounds just to see how they looked and was a little surprised. All of the rounds have a rather nasty finish (blotches and splashes of discoloration, not the discoloration usually found around the neck of the case). Almost every round has a slight ding or several dings (very small, almost cosmetic) just below the neck of the case. Some rounds have excess sealant too. None of the rounds that I inspected appear to be unservicable, but I was not expecting such ugly ammo.

The cases are stamped with LC and 05 which I assume means a 2005 manufacture date. Can anyone confirm that?

Is it normal to see dings of that nature on XM193?

If this is grade 2 ammo, perhaps I got the worst of the grade 2.


Thanks!

Forgiver

Link Posted: 7/27/2005 3:23:01 PM EDT
Was this loose ammo or in the 20rd brown boxes?
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 3:26:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2005 3:28:09 PM EDT by forgiver]
This was in the 20rd boxes marked XM193.

I am going to go work up a few pics... Standby for those...
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 3:33:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2005 3:34:03 PM EDT by PocketG]

Originally Posted By forgiver:
This was in the 20rd boxes marked XM193.

I am going to go work up a few pics... Standby for those...



You are describing LOT#100. Dirty, ugly, nasty but sweet.....

Lot#100 shot very accurately. I was shooting 3 inch groups @ 100yards consistantly.

I bought 1k also. I have 940 left that I am planning on holding onto.

Link Posted: 7/27/2005 4:05:11 PM EDT
Thanks PocketG, that makes me feel a bit better. I am glad to hear that my SHTF ammo will get the job done.

Here are the photos for those that are interested. Sorry the pics are so huge. http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b17/forgiver/100_1248.jpg


Very dinged ammo...
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b17/forgiver/100_1251.jpg


Thanks all!

Forgiver


Link Posted: 7/27/2005 7:06:30 PM EDT
Looks like LC too me. What's wrong with it ??
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 7:41:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2005 7:47:32 PM EDT by PocketG]

Originally Posted By forgiver:
Thanks PocketG, that makes me feel a bit better. I am glad to hear that my SHTF ammo will get the job done.

Here are the photos for those that are interested. Sorry the pics are so huge.


Brown box...
i16.photobucket.com/albums/b17/forgiver/100_1248.jpg


Very dinged ammo...
i16.photobucket.com/albums/b17/forgiver/100_1251.jpg



Forgiver






You have some pretty dinged up stuff. I opened up 10 boxes total and some where dinged like the ones in the photo. You have to use your discretion on which ones are too dinged up to shoot. Sure, they have dings but are the dings too deep, too large, if some are you must seperate and really use your judgement into if that round is safe to shoot.

If it looks to damaged don't shoot it. Out of 10 boxes that I opened 1 round looked to damaged ( i tossed it). Since you have posted pictures, if you have any question on a round e-mail me with pictures of the area in question and I'll reply to if it looks like a tosser or a keeper. I don't mind helping others out when it comes to personel safety and saftey to others
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 7:51:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By forgiver:
Just received 1K XM193 from lot number 102. I inspected 80 rounds just to see how they looked and was a little surprised. All of the rounds have a rather nasty finish (blotches and splashes of discoloration, not the discoloration usually found around the neck of the case). Almost every round has a slight ding or several dings (very small, almost cosmetic) just below the neck of the case. Some rounds have excess sealant too. None of the rounds that I inspected appear to be unservicable, but I was not expecting such ugly ammo.

The cases are stamped with LC and 05 which I assume means a 2005 manufacture date. Can anyone confirm that?

Is it normal to see dings of that nature on XM193?

If this is grade 2 ammo, perhaps I got the worst of the grade 2.


Thanks!

Forgiver




Who did you buy this from? Ammoman?
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 8:27:35 PM EDT
I had 1000 rounds of lot 102. I shot about 400 the other day with no problems. All XM193 looks like that. It's not polished case ammo. Now the dings you describe are not normal. Out of the 400 rounds I shot only one round had a ding and it was so small you almost couldn't even see it.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 8:32:50 PM EDT
Actually I just pulled a few rounds from a loaded mag and you are right quite a few have very small dings in them. No worries though. They wont affect the function a bit.
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 2:52:00 AM EDT
Yes, this ammo was from the ammoman. His service was good and delivery was prompt, so I am happy with that part.

Thanks for all the responses on this. I will probably check all 1000 and pull any unsafe rounds after seeing the first 80, and will post pics of any really bad rounds that I find.

In all of my time in the Army firing M193 I never loaded up anything that looked this knarly. I am somewhat surprised that such ugly ammo leaves a government run ammo plant at all.

Forgiver
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 8:11:58 AM EDT
I am new to the AR15 and this forum. Very very helpful and good educational site. I am not new to firearms, shooting, or reloading though.
I also got a case of XM193 lot #102 yesterday. Only opened a couple of boxs. Seemed to have quite a few with dings. Some also had crap on the bullet itself. I think I certainly will have to inspect each round as I load. Do all lots of XM193 look like this or is lot #102 just a little more dirty and dinged than other lots you guys have experienced? But then if it shoots good that is what is important. I can wipe the crap of an occasional bullet and small dings won't hurt anything. Big dents will be on a case by case basis though. Thanks.

Lonnie
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 8:19:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By forgiver:
The cases are stamped with LC and 05 which I assume means a 2005 manufacture date. Can anyone confirm that?



No. The ammo was post dated. It was actually made years ago!
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 9:21:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2005 9:22:26 AM EDT by Raven_Fire]
double tap
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 9:22:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PocketG:

Originally Posted By forgiver:
This was in the 20rd boxes marked XM193.

I am going to go work up a few pics... Standby for those...



You are describing LOT#100. Dirty, ugly, nasty but sweet.....

Lot#100 shot very accurately. I was shooting 3 inch groups @ 100yards consistantly.

I bought 1k also. I have 940 left that I am planning on holding onto.



you think 3 moa is accurate? wow, i'm not that great but you should see some of the guys i shoot with. Seriously, not that impressive

as for the ammo, i should be fine, like the other guys said, just look through them if you feel it necessary. ammoman has no way of knowing what condition anything in the little brown boxs is in.
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 10:00:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Raven_Fire:

Originally Posted By PocketG:

Originally Posted By forgiver:
This was in the 20rd boxes marked XM193.

I am going to go work up a few pics... Standby for those...



You are describing LOT#100. Dirty, ugly, nasty but sweet.....

Lot#100 shot very accurately. I was shooting 3 inch groups @ 100yards consistantly.

I bought 1k also. I have 940 left that I am planning on holding onto.



you think 3 moa is accurate? wow, i'm not that great but you should see some of the guys i shoot with. Seriously, not that impressive

as for the ammo, i should be fine, like the other guys said, just look through them if you feel it necessary. ammoman has no way of knowing what condition anything in the little brown boxs is in.



For me it is using a 16 inch barrel considering not using a benchrest. I should bench it and review the results. What would be accurate to you?
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 10:29:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Raven_Fire:
you think 3 moa is accurate? wow, i'm not that great but you should see some of the guys i shoot with. Seriously, not that impressive

as for the ammo, i should be fine, like the other guys said, just look through them if you feel it necessary. ammoman has no way of knowing what condition anything in the little brown boxs is in.



I am not calling foul on ammoman because I realize that he cannot know the condition of the ammo inside the brown boxes. There is no doubt though that this is some ugly ammo. I also expect that as long as the rounds will chamber properly they should shoot just fine.

Hey PocketG, I would love to hear about the accuracy shooting from a bench. 3 MOA is minute-of-dead in my opinion, and I assumed that you were shooting from a standing unsupported position since you did not mention from a bench or prone, but 3 MOA from a bench would make this plinking ammo. If you have a chance to shoot it from a bench please let us know the results.

To Wodenson: From what I understand that "crap" is excess bullet sealant and it should wipe off with some Break-free if there is too much on a particular round.
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 9:57:39 PM EDT
It looks alright to me
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 10:32:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By forgiver:
Just received 1K XM193 from lot number 102. I inspected 80 rounds just to see how they looked and was a little surprised. All of the rounds have a rather nasty finish (blotches and splashes of discoloration, not the discoloration usually found around the neck of the case). Almost every round has a slight ding or several dings (very small, almost cosmetic) just below the neck of the case. Some rounds have excess sealant too. None of the rounds that I inspected appear to be unservicable, but I was not expecting such ugly ammo.

The cases are stamped with LC and 05 which I assume means a 2005 manufacture date. Can anyone confirm that?

Is it normal to see dings of that nature on XM193?

If this is grade 2 ammo, perhaps I got the worst of the grade 2.


Thanks!

Forgiver




But how'd it shoot? I shoot 55gr BH (blue box) factory reloads usually on LC brass thats really clean and purdy but it doesn't shoot any better than disassembled, then reassembled XM193 Federal thats typically about 30% cheaper YMMV. I'm pretty sure my targets don't know the difference.
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 7:15:44 AM EDT
Unfortunately I may not get a chance to shoot any of this ammo for a while. I have not located a good range here in North Georgia yet, and do not have any friends that own property suitable for shooting. I would love to get back to Knob Creek in Kentucky but that is 6 hours away. If I *do* find a place to shoot, I will go through rezeroing procedures (current zero on A2 irons is -UP 3-) and do some real accuracy testing.

I began inspecting the rounds more closely last night and after going through about 400 I pulled perhaps 15 rounds, and those rounds may actually be fine, but were the worst of the worst so they will be the first to go downrange in testing. What I did was roll the rounds on a piece of glass to look for any serious deformities and there were really none. All of the dings that I did find were dents going inward on the round that did not deform the case to an out of spec appearance. My assumption is that the dings are completely cosmetic, but I will not be buying dinged up ammo again in the future if I can help it.

Forgiver
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 12:13:06 PM EDT
The army doesn't care about cosmetic appearance in their ammo, there is only one thing that counts, that it goes bang each and every time.

Small dents are absolutely nothing to worry about, big dents are another item entirely, any cases with large dents or bullets that might be seated too deeply are things to look for, it is a good idea to visually inspect the ammo for any major problems, but I wouldn't get too worked up about it.
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 12:35:31 PM EDT
I just ordered a case, will have to see what lot # it is. Hopefully everything will check out.
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 1:17:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PocketG:

Originally Posted By forgiver:
This was in the 20rd boxes marked XM193.

I am going to go work up a few pics... Standby for those...



You are describing LOT#100. Dirty, ugly, nasty but sweet.....

Lot#100 shot very accurately. I was shooting 3 inch groups @ 100yards consistantly.

I bought 1k also. I have 940 left that I am planning on holding onto.




All of my lot 100 looked exceptionally clean.
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 4:23:58 PM EDT
From your picture, all those rounds pass Mil-Spec visual standards.
The dents pictured would have to be approx. 50% bigger to alert an inspector.
An exception to this is if they would not fit a profile gauge.(A very tight chamber)
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 5:32:11 PM EDT
for the past year all I buy is XM193 and it always looks just as you described. I have 3 different lot #'s right now and thats how they look and I would expect all my future XM193 to be the same. I have never had a single problem with any XM193.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 8:43:54 AM EDT
I was not really worried or doubtful about the condition of the ammo, but was questioning to some degree how the grade 2 ammo could be so ass ugly when *every* bit of grade 1 ammo I have ever fired was pristine in every way. The swing in quality is amazing.

To all of you who have fired large quantities of ammo in this condition, thanks for your comments because you have certainly alleviated any concerns that I had. Now I need to get out and shoot some!
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 10:56:06 AM EDT
I have now shot over 800rds of lot #102 it looks exactly like what you pictured. I have not had to pull a single round and every round has fired flawlessly.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 1:56:40 PM EDT
Were you going to shoot it or hang it on a string around your neck?
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 3:24:22 PM EDT
Just received a case of Lot # 96 of the Lake City XM193 in the box. Looks pretty decent, slightly cleaner than the lot pictured.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 3:59:22 PM EDT
CStan, I posted on 8-10 about my lot 96. Does your ammo have different dates like mine? Ever seen this before?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:16:34 PM EDT
I can't believe this!
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:08:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2005 8:12:42 PM EDT by forgiver]

Originally Posted By j3_:
Someone in the Georgia forum will help you find a range.
Try these.
www.fs.fed.us/conf/rec/shooting.htm
georgiawildlife.dnr.state.ga.us/content/displaycontent.asp?txtDocument=442
www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/findlocal.asp?State=GA
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=35&t=370
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=35&t=205627&page=1
www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=8&f=35
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=35&t=206077



Thanks for the links J3_! I was able to find a WMA range to shoot at thanks to the links you posted. I really appreciate the help!

UPDATE I fired about 200 rounds of the lot 102 XM193 and all of them fired without any malfunctions. I actually fired the worst that I could find out of the first 500 rounds inspected, and each of those was fine. Notably there are no dents or crimps in the neck of the cases. No problems at all, and very hot!Forgiver
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:51:52 PM EDT
I shot about 500 rounds of Lot 102 a couple weeks ago, and it shot pretty good to me. I had a couple blown primers cause a couple of failures to feed, but that's no big deal. The rounds felt a little hot (as in, my AR was starting to make my shoulder sore!), but that could just be that I'm not used to shooting M193 out of that rifle. I've also been having some minor issues with my rifle, though, and it's possible there's something up with my gas tube.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 12:46:11 AM EDT



1K, Get to work
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 8:16:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bobby_the_Hun:
exclusiveproductscompany.com/images/products/07758.jpg


1K, Get to work



LOL

I'm considering throwing my case of lot 102 I got from ammoman into my tumbler with some polish. I know it really doesn't matter, but man, those bullets are ugly.

Link Posted: 8/14/2005 8:35:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By forgiver:
I was not really worried or doubtful about the condition of the ammo, but was questioning to some degree how the grade 2 ammo could be so ass ugly when *every* bit of grade 1 ammo I have ever fired was pristine in every way. The swing in quality is amazing.



Where did this Grade 1, Grade 2, Tier 3, Section 7, etc bullshit come from? Is this more internut commandouche folk lore?
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 7:31:00 AM EDT
So i guess it also boils down to this question, would you trust some ugly dinged XM193 with your life tonight if some thug broke into your home? I'm assuming most will say yes.
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