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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/18/2002 8:28:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2002 8:29:28 AM EDT by CANADIAN_TACTICAL]
Just wondering if any users here have had a chnace to play with the NVEC Attila? and What the thoughts were regarding the PEQ2.

The Attila
PVS17
PVS18
Link Posted: 9/18/2002 1:36:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2002 1:40:19 PM EDT by DBLTAP]
Damn... The Attila looks sweet, where do I buy one of those!

Even though I have no need for it I want one, LOL!

Is it a light and laser?

Link Posted: 9/18/2002 1:37:58 PM EDT
How did you get those? Those are the only 3 night vision devices Id ever want. I think they cost about $15,000-$17,00 for all 3 at current civilian prices in the US. All 3 can be submersed to 20m or 66ft. (2 atmospheres)
Link Posted: 9/18/2002 2:49:15 PM EDT
DevL - unfortunately they are not mine [>(]- they belong to the CF
Link Posted: 9/18/2002 2:55:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2002 6:36:32 PM EDT by HKocher]
Damn, more goodies I can't get my hands on...

Here's more info:
www.nvec-night-vision.com/products/details_R.asp?Msg=20&System=ATILLA&Category=5



Would someone login on to their website, so we can find out the price of these? I tried to but they want .mil or .gov email addresses to register...
Link Posted: 9/18/2002 5:38:48 PM EDT
HK - tried to but did not like my @forces.ca email - I think those would be govt pricing too.

I had a spec sheet on them from the SHOT show but like everythign from there I think i lost it in a big pile.
Link Posted: 9/18/2002 6:39:18 PM EDT
Anyone know how the PVS18 stacks up against the PVS14?

I've seen many sources for the PVS14, but not the PVS18. Where is it available? Any idea on cost?
Link Posted: 9/18/2002 7:46:41 PM EDT
HK www.littoneos.com/products/usmilitary/ussubmersible.htmM983 Night Vision Monocular Goggle PVS-18

I do not believe it is available to civilians or LE but I could be wrong.

We fielded both systems 14 and 18 recently with the 18 being the choice of the troops involved.

Link Posted: 9/19/2002 2:13:26 AM EDT
M983 does not have the variable gain. It a submersible civilian version. The M985 and M985-002 are the Gen III submersible/var. gain types comparable to the PVS-14 monoculars. It is available through civilian channels at a premium price of $5000-5500. The M985-002 version is set up to be "used" underwater (attached to an underwater camera, camcorder etc) While the regular version is simply designed not to ruin from a nice dunk in the ocean. The PVS-18 will replace the currently issued PVS-14.
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 2:45:26 AM EDT
Buyer beware---- The Atilla-- is an all laser unit is a subspec to the Governments AM/PEQ-2A. By subspec I mean it is not qualified as is the 2A and has not been adopted by the government. I tried to get one and almost did through Nightline. Then I found out it is not FDA approved and like all the other IR products cannot be sold to us non DOD folks. Someone try to buy it and report on it.

S
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 6:57:21 AM EDT
DevL - sorry yes you are right but I could not find a link to the specific PVS18.


Steve - we have both the Attial and the PEQ2A - in troop trial right now. From all the feedback, the troops in my BN like the Attila more than the 2A.

It also has a nice module swap - that the blue module is an eyesafe laser while the black is not.

To me the Attila seems to be everything the 2A is and more
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 11:27:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2002 11:28:25 AM EDT by JohnM]
I went and registered at their website. The Attila-20 purchased by the goverment costs around $1500. A little less but I won't get too specific. Which is too bad.

I paid $1200 for my PAC-4C.
Link Posted: 9/24/2002 2:38:15 AM EDT
I am not sure where you bought your 4C but I know for a fact that the Government ( I am in the Army and see what items cost by their NSN #)price for a 4C is not what you stated but is around $500 in Very small quanty. The 2A is around $1,200 in very small quantity.

GET Your facts straight. You are trying to compare a Pinto with a great paint job to a corvett.

Link Posted: 9/24/2002 5:26:30 AM EDT
I bought my 4C off the internet. Used. From a private individual. No sure what you are implying? Anyway, the 4C was a learning experience.

I too am in the Army. Currently.



12Bravo out!
Link Posted: 9/24/2002 5:48:53 AM EDT
Great for you on your purchase. What I am implying is that you got taken from your internet buy. The unit sells for a lot less and the NVEC product is very expensive for its unproven abilities. If it was proven then the Army would buy tens of thousands instead of dozens.!!
Link Posted: 9/24/2002 8:27:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By steve9500:
Great for you on your purchase. What I am implying is that you got taken from your internet buy. The unit sells for a lot less...



Get YOUR facts straight.

The PAQ-4C, PEQ-2, etc, etc are very hard to come by in the civilian market. Because of FDA restrictions and manufacturer's sales policy, these items command a premium when and if they can be found for purchase (over $4K for the PEQ-2).
Link Posted: 9/24/2002 1:23:13 PM EDT

The unit sells for a lot less and the NVEC product is very expensive for its unproven abilities. If it was proven then the Army would buy tens of thousands instead of dozens.!!


So by your logic Steve we would never evolve?

My own personal experiences have me giving the Attila the edge - due to the fact that the Attila does things the PEQ-2A does not - an eyesafe module - which is a great advantage doing excersises w/o harm to your troops yet still lets them train as they would fight.


I did not want start slinging a mud war with what is current issue vs non.

Link Posted: 9/24/2002 3:02:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By steve9500:
Great for you on your purchase. What I am implying is that you got taken from your internet buy. The unit sells for a lot less and the NVEC product is very expensive for its unproven abilities. If it was proven then the Army would buy tens of thousands instead of dozens.!!



It's all about supply and demand. If you aren't a gov't agency, you aren't going to get gov't pricing, period.

I don't think JohnM got 'taken' since he found a very hard to get item at a price he was willing to pay, even if the item sells to the gov't for a much lower price.

Hey, don't get me wrong, if you have a source that can get me a PAQ-4C, or better yet a PEQ-2 at gov't pricing then sign me up!
Link Posted: 9/24/2002 3:47:47 PM EDT
Agreed if he is talking smack about getting ripped off and can get them for less he can buy them all at $500 and $1200 for the PAQ4C and PEQ2A and we will pay him a $100 fee per unit for his services. So put up or shut up...heere is a chance to make you point and put a lot of money in your pocket.
Link Posted: 9/25/2002 2:32:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2002 2:32:49 AM EDT by steve9500]
Listen CANADIAN_TACTICAL, The 2A does have an eye safe mode. It also has a key to lock out high power just for training. You untrained folks in Canada need to come to the USA to get trained on the newest devices. You must be using a real old 2A boy. Get your facts straight, the 2a out performs this NVEC crap and has 7 years of testing behind it as well as the Army, Marines and 15 international countries.

Train with the best--USA
Link Posted: 9/25/2002 5:06:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2002 5:12:24 AM EDT by havoc]

Originally Posted By steve9500:
Listen CANADIAN_TACTICAL, The 2A does have an eye safe mode. It also has a key to lock out high power just for training. You untrained folks in Canada need to come to the USA to get trained on the newest devices. You must be using a real old 2A boy. Get your facts straight, the 2a out performs this NVEC crap and has 7 years of testing behind it as well as the Army, Marines and 15 international countries.



In all fairness, I doubt you know anymore about CANADIAN_TACTICAL's background than he does about yours. To say that he is "untrained" is somewhat disrespectful, to say the least.

Now on to business: It seems both products serve similar purposes, however the ATTILA has a few enhancements over the PEQ-2A. One is a low battery indicator, which sounds appealing, but I would like to know more about how it notifies its user (sound? itty bitty light? etc). Also, (and my personal favorite) it has a paddle switch. The ATTILA also has a higher depth rating. And, the ATTILA has a selectable-rate pulsating aiming point.

New products don't start out with the blessing of the Army or Marines (remember the M16?). It takes time, user input, and field trials to get something "in the system". It may not be today, but that doesn't mean it never will.

Besides, look at products like the VLI (Visible Light Illuminator) from Insight. Hell, its even in the SOPMOD kit. But how many times have we seen the M900 (or any Surefire light) fielded on a weapon in its place? The users who can, get what THEY want.

For more info on the above mentioned ITPIALs, see here:

NVEC ATTILA:
www.nvec-night-vision.com/products/details_R.asp?Msg=20&System=ATILLA&Category=5

INSIGHT TECHNOLOGY AN/PEQ-2A:
www.selpro.com.hk/download/insight-PEQ2A.pdf


Train with the best--USA


No argument there.

havoc
Link Posted: 9/25/2002 8:18:45 AM EDT

Steve, I knew about the lock out by was under the impresion it was still not 'eye safe' - however I point out the Attila has a replacement module - which pops in and is baby blue for both the switch and the presure pad - which allows the user and others to see easily if it is eye safe mode.



You untrained folks in Canada need to come to the USA to get trained on the newest devices.
I have not interest in getting into a pissing contest on the internet.

I am interested to see why you feel it is so substandard.

Link Posted: 9/25/2002 1:55:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2002 2:02:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2002 8:27:27 PM EDT
canadian_tac,

first off , thank you for the pics. they will make a nice addition to the collection.

also, have you had the opportunity to shoot with the pvs17? if so please give deatails, mag power, light conditions, range , targets, etc.
thanks, scott.

Link Posted: 9/26/2002 8:14:24 AM EDT
Havoc, It has a little led that glows upon power up if the batteries are low.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 8:09:24 PM EDT
The Attila is far superior than the PEQ-2, but there is one problem with it, it has no channel thru the center to allow it to be top mounted so you can use your iron sights, it's too thick/high. At least the PEQ-2 can be used on a FF barrel system via top mounting, both RIS-RAS/SIR.
Good shootin, Jack
Link Posted: 10/5/2002 6:57:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 6:33:57 AM EDT
Hey Canadian Tactical,

Do you have a bunch of pic's on a web site? Ones that show some soldiers shooting with a PVS-17 and other shots of Attila mounted to some C6's? There are also some pic's of some form of Armoured Vehicle with NOD's on it. If not yours it must be in some other special unit. All of the stuff is high speed and way kewl.

12Bravo out!
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 9:58:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2002 10:01:26 AM EDT by CANADIAN_TACTICAL]
JohnM, not mine but was it this?members.shaw.ca/night-vision/index.htm
This is the site of one of the Warrant officers from my unit.


This is th emount we use to mount the MaxiKite (and others) to our C6 - it is a better option IMHO than the feed cover rail - as the optic is not subject to the banging and same vibrations.

members.shaw.ca/night-vision/Weapons_Suppression.htm
Excellent article (and check the links)
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 2:15:05 PM EDT
That's the one!! You guy's got some nice stuff. You are definitely high speed. Hope to train with you some day.

12Bravo out!
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 4:09:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2002 4:10:23 PM EDT by CANADIAN_TACTICAL]
John,
We have some guys from the Bn going to Benning next month - some sort of kit trial -I did not get invited :(
- probably cause I like to play with shiny new kit.

Mr_H - sorry I had missed you comments - I have not yet shot the PVS-17 - we ran a section sized element throught our PWT (0-300m tgts - some snap, rapid and deliberate - from the prone, kneeling and standing) using NV and they did very well (some better than days scores with the C79 Elcan)- They keep watching me very closely around the PVS-17 and 18 as they are worried they would walk home with me
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