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Link Posted: 6/11/2018 2:23:14 PM EST
So to be considered “clone correct”, what are our limitations as far as uppers/lowers and grips?
Link Posted: 6/11/2018 2:32:46 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:
So to be considered “clone correct”, what are our limitations as far as uppers/lowers and grips?
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Hmmm....that's a good question. I would say at a minimum an m4 upper (Cerro is probably your best bet) and an A2 profile lower. Obviously colt is the way to go if you are looking to get a correct as possible. The early recce's with the lilja barrels would probably need a colt "AF" forge code upper. Probably the same with the Delta MRE uppers. I haven't seen a picture of one that is good enough quality to be able to see the forge mark, so the assumption on the AF is made based on what was known to be seen during the period of use. Grips, you are probably safe using anything that has been seen used in the wild. I've yet to see two recce's setup identically so there's a good amount of leeway on this platform.
Link Posted: 6/11/2018 4:11:57 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Dobs013:
Hmmm....that's a good question. I would say at a minimum an m4 upper (Cerro is probably your best bet) and an A2 profile lower. Obviously colt is the way to go if you are looking to get a correct as possible. The early recce's with the lilja barrels would probably need a colt "AF" forge code upper. Probably the same with the Delta MRE uppers. I haven't seen a picture of one that is good enough quality to be able to see the forge mark, so the assumption on the AF is made based on what was known to be seen during the period of use. Grips, you are probably safe using anything that has been seen used in the wild. I've yet to see two recce's setup identically so there's a good amount of leeway on this platform.
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Originally Posted By Dobs013:
Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:
So to be considered “clone correct”, what are our limitations as far as uppers/lowers and grips?
Hmmm....that's a good question. I would say at a minimum an m4 upper (Cerro is probably your best bet) and an A2 profile lower. Obviously colt is the way to go if you are looking to get a correct as possible. The early recce's with the lilja barrels would probably need a colt "AF" forge code upper. Probably the same with the Delta MRE uppers. I haven't seen a picture of one that is good enough quality to be able to see the forge mark, so the assumption on the AF is made based on what was known to be seen during the period of use. Grips, you are probably safe using anything that has been seen used in the wild. I've yet to see two recce's setup identically so there's a good amount of leeway on this platform.
For grips I prefer the MIAD but I know the A2 is the most obvious correct part.

For uppers and lowers, I prefer mine to be matched, i.e. Spikes upper/lower, Aero upper/lower, etc.... just wondering how far off base that would be
Link Posted: 6/11/2018 4:32:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:

For grips I prefer the MIAD but I know the A2 is the most obvious correct part.

For uppers and lowers, I prefer mine to be matched, i.e. Spikes upper/lower, Aero upper/lower, etc.... just wondering how far off base that would be
View Quote
Honestly, as far as the upper and lower, any of those matched sets would be the correct profile and perfectly fine to use. As long as it's an A2 profile lower and an m4 upper, you're good. You don't really have to get into roll marks and forge marks unless you are attempting to make a museum quality clone. People go nuts in the clone threads for colt lowers for the roll marks, but the thing that never made sense to me is they will do that knowing colt shaves the selector stops on all their commercial lowers. Which that's kind of a bigger knock than having the wrong roll mark if you ask me. I really think you would be safe with a MIAD also, plenty of those have been seen in use across several platforms.
Link Posted: 6/11/2018 5:25:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By Eyekahn:
Branching off from the normal Recce Rifle Thread for just  legit clones. These have the most varying setups of all the clones I believe.

Trying to keep this to the AR platform. But HK is kosher since it is the newer variant.

Here is a quick run down. Can add more items as they get brought up.

RAILS: KAC FF RAS Medium/Long and KAC MRE

OPTICS: Nightforce 2.5-10x24/32, Leupold MK4 Series, S&B Short Dot, and Doctor/T1 Piggybacked

OPTIC MOUNTS: NF Rings, ARMS Rings, NF Unimount, LaRue LT104, LaRue Riser/Ring Combo’s

BARRELS: 16/15.x Ops Cut Barrel, 16in Lilja, or 14.5 M4

BIPODS: Harris 6-9 and Atlas BT10

STOCK: SOPMOD, CAR, or CTR.

MUZZLE DEVICES: Ops/AE,  BE Myers, or KAC NT4

SUPPRESSORS: Ops 12th/AEM5 and KAC NT4


A few to get us started of in the wild and a few of the favorites I’ve collected.

https://i.imgur.com/eQsW54w.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/96efWyH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gDCE7Tj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Su3iHMR.png

https://i.imgur.com/D8jzOnk.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RnSjqeV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ts9Kivo.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QTA7OyW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OVEqo9Y.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/agsuTyF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ZLDhhMo.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/lrgGcuB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5j54vFl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/EIqypEh.jpg
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What leupold scope is that in pic 5 and 6? Capped turrets and no illuminated reticle(mil-dot?) from what it looks like...
Link Posted: 6/11/2018 7:36:09 PM EST
Sorry for the crappy phone pic, medium RAS
Link Posted: 6/11/2018 7:43:05 PM EST
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Originally Posted By BigBoss01:

What leupold scope is that in pic 5 and 6? Capped turrets and no illuminated reticle(mil-dot?) from what it looks like...
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You see that scope on older recces and mre’s I haven’t nailed it down yet but I believe it’s a Leupold Vari model either taken from a sniper system or unit bought. I know a guy the went to sniper school with an m14 and hi-lux scope back in the day and I sent pictures of the scope in question to him for clarification.
Link Posted: 6/11/2018 8:01:50 PM EST
My build is underway. Larue 16” barrel, KAC 12” RAS, Leupold 2.5-8 inbound. Next up upper/lower and Larue SPR Mount.

I’m having the barrel profiles by ADCO for the Ops can when it arrives and filing tax stamp by the end of the month.
Link Posted: 6/11/2018 8:04:41 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:
My build is underway. Larue 16” barrel, KAC 12” RAS, Leupold 2.5-8 inbound. Next up upper/lower and Larue SPR Mount.

I’m having the barrel profiles by ADCO for the Ops can when it arrives and filing tax stamp by the end of the month.
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Go with Colt, It'll make you warm and fuzzy inside you did it clone correct.
Link Posted: 6/11/2018 8:13:24 PM EST
I guess I'll drop this here.

Link Posted: 6/11/2018 8:41:34 PM EST
@Great_Balls_Of_Fire
Link Posted: 6/11/2018 8:50:47 PM EST
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Originally Posted By vanquishings:
I guess I'll drop this here.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4512/24295872698_7f244df323_o.jpg
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Yesssssssss.
Link Posted: 6/11/2018 8:52:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2018 7:52:51 AM EST by Eyekahn]
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Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:

For grips I prefer the MIAD but I know the A2 is the most obvious correct part.

For uppers and lowers, I prefer mine to be matched, i.e. Spikes upper/lower, Aero upper/lower, etc.... just wondering how far off base that would be
View Quote
Receivers should be colt. As should the BCG. But it is what it is, run whatever you have that’s normal m4 upper and lower. No billet skull magwell or blinged out receiver sets and your straight.
Link Posted: 6/11/2018 9:42:15 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Eyekahn:
Receivers should be colt. As should the BCG. But it is what it is, run whatever you have that’s normal m4 upper and lower. No billet skull magwell or blinged our receiver sets and your straight.
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Originally Posted By Eyekahn:
Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:

For grips I prefer the MIAD but I know the A2 is the most obvious correct part.

For uppers and lowers, I prefer mine to be matched, i.e. Spikes upper/lower, Aero upper/lower, etc.... just wondering how far off base that would be
Receivers should be colt. As should the BCG. But it is what it is, run whatever you have that’s normal m4 upper and lower. No billet skull magwell or blinged our receiver sets and your straight.
Those are ghey. I plan on Spikes matched upper/lower
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 7:11:06 AM EST
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Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:

Those are ghey. I plan on Spikes matched upper/lower
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Link Posted: 6/12/2018 7:14:57 AM EST
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Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:

Those are ghey. I plan on Spikes matched upper/lower
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Ah the dueling penises. There are better options.
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 8:29:40 AM EST
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Originally Posted By RTUtah:
Ah the dueling penises. There are better options.
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Originally Posted By RTUtah:
Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:

Those are ghey. I plan on Spikes matched upper/lower
Ah the dueling penises. There are better options.
I have always liked Spikes but certainly open to others if there is better out there.
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 8:42:29 AM EST
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Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:
I have always liked Spikes but certainly open to others if there is better out there.
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Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:
Originally Posted By RTUtah:
Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:

Those are ghey. I plan on Spikes matched upper/lower
Ah the dueling penises. There are better options.
I have always liked Spikes but certainly open to others if there is better out there.
As far as cloning goes, imho if you aren’t going to use Colt receivers you might as well just use the cheapest ones you can find. Receivers are all basically the same except for the roll marks. My LMT lower and Anderson lower both do the exact same thing but at significantly different price points.
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 9:15:46 AM EST
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Originally Posted By ehudbengera:
As far as cloning goes, imho if you aren’t going to use Colt receivers you might as well just use the cheapest ones you can find. Receivers are all basically the same except for the roll marks. My LMT lower and Anderson lower both do the exact same thing but at significantly different price points.
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Originally Posted By ehudbengera:
Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:
Originally Posted By RTUtah:
Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:

Those are ghey. I plan on Spikes matched upper/lower
Ah the dueling penises. There are better options.
I have always liked Spikes but certainly open to others if there is better out there.
As far as cloning goes, imho if you aren’t going to use Colt receivers you might as well just use the cheapest ones you can find. Receivers are all basically the same except for the roll marks. My LMT lower and Anderson lower both do the exact same thing but at significantly different price points.
I'm just going to use my Armalite M15 as a host. This way I can sell off some excess parts and URGs to fund the new parts and keep the amount of ARs in my safe to a minimum. If I'm not mistaken, some of the Mk12s had Armalite receivers, right?
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 10:09:57 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Infidel4life11:
You see that scope on older recces and mre’s I haven’t nailed it down yet but I believe it’s a Leupold Vari model either taken from a sniper system or unit bought. I know a guy the went to sniper school with an m14 and hi-lux scope back in the day and I sent pictures of the scope in question to him for clarification.
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Originally Posted By Infidel4life11:
Originally Posted By BigBoss01:

What leupold scope is that in pic 5 and 6? Capped turrets and no illuminated reticle(mil-dot?) from what it looks like...
You see that scope on older recces and mre’s I haven’t nailed it down yet but I believe it’s a Leupold Vari model either taken from a sniper system or unit bought. I know a guy the went to sniper school with an m14 and hi-lux scope back in the day and I sent pictures of the scope in question to him for clarification.
Those are the Leupold "PR" models, an example of one is HERE
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 12:15:38 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:

I have always liked Spikes but certainly open to others if there is better out there.
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Colt or NDS A1 lower, unbranded BCM upper; unless you can score a Colt upper as well. That's what I'd do, at least.
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 12:28:42 PM EST
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Originally Posted By lancecriminal86:

Those are the Leupold "PR" models, an example of one is HERE
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Hell yeah! You da man!
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 12:49:47 PM EST
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Originally Posted By RTUtah:
Colt or NDS A1 lower, unbranded BCM upper; unless you can score a Colt upper as well. That's what I'd do, at least.
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Originally Posted By RTUtah:
Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:

I have always liked Spikes but certainly open to others if there is better out there.
Colt or NDS A1 lower, unbranded BCM upper; unless you can score a Colt upper as well. That's what I'd do, at least.
May I ask why those 2? Just learning not trying to argue.
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 1:23:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:

May I ask why those 2? Just learning not trying to argue.
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The purpose of cloning is to use historically accurate parts to replicate it. More so why this thread was made to deviate from the RECCE rifle thread for more of the clone builds. Going out and snagging a Anderson lower for one of these defeats the purpose completely. Colt is primarily what was used, the A1 variant lowers (which are used for Mk12's) were used in these as well.
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 2:35:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/18/2018 1:26:33 PM EST by JJREA]
Who's got the one that is sitting on a table in like a conference room. It's painted and has vertical stripes like a grass paint job, tan, 1-4, sopmod stock.....  That one should be in here I think .  Harris 6-9...  LT-104   Anyone?  Bueller?  Bueller?

Link Posted: 6/12/2018 3:42:25 PM EST
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
http://www.rhinoden.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/IMG_0061.jpg

Who's got the one that is sitting on a table in like a conference room. It's painted and has vertical stripes like a grass paint job, tan, 1-4, sopmod stock.....  That one should be in here I think .  Harris 6-9...  LT-104   Anyone?  Bueller?  Bueller?

https://i.imgur.com/oifBLaM.jpg
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Link Posted: 6/12/2018 3:49:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2018 3:53:08 PM EST by Infidel4life11]
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
http://www.rhinoden.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/IMG_0061.jpg

Who's got the one that is sitting on a table in like a conference room. It's painted and has vertical stripes like a grass paint job, tan, 1-4, sopmod stock.....  That one should be in here I think .  Harris 6-9...  LT-104   Anyone?  Bueller?  Bueller?
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That Marine is using a MK12 mod 1, I believe
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 3:58:46 PM EST
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Originally Posted By eMc9001:

The purpose of cloning is to use historically accurate parts to replicate it. More so why this thread was made to deviate from the RECCE rifle thread for more of the clone builds. Going out and snagging a Anderson lower for one of these defeats the purpose completely. Colt is primarily what was used, the A1 variant lowers (which are used for Mk12's) were used in these as well.
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I still think this is a grey area. For clone purposes, other than it being made by colt, a colt commercial lower is more clone incorrect than any standard milspec a2 profile lower just from the stand point of the missing selector stops. And while the pony and colt denfense marks are the same the rest of the roll mark is different and missing the govt property line. Now I get I'm getting into semantics at this point but just saying
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 4:04:37 PM EST
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Anyone know the details on this? Is it a military rifle? Is that a legacy Surefire can?
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 4:08:38 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Dobs013:

I still think this is a grey area. For clone purposes, other than it being made by colt, a colt commercial lower is more clone incorrect than any standard milspec a2 profile lower just from the stand point of the missing selector stops. And while the pony and colt denfense marks are the same the rest of the roll mark is different and missing the govt property line. Now I get I'm getting into semantics at this point but just saying
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But it's not fair the average joe can spend $30 on a lower while I spend $1,000 on my elitist roll mark bro. Come on now.
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 4:18:21 PM EST
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Originally Posted By eMc9001:

But it's not fair the average joe can spend $30 on a lower while I spend $1,000 on my elitist roll mark bro. Come on now.
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Hahaha....well you could be like me and spend $1500 on a lower made 25 years ago that cost $60 new bc of the dumbass state I live in....haha
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 4:23:20 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Dobs013:

Hahaha....well you could be like me and spend $1500 on a lower made 25 years ago that cost $60 new bc of the dumbass state I live in....haha
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Yeah, well I understand the preban life lol. That's inevitable.
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 4:27:30 PM EST
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
http://www.rhinoden.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/IMG_0061.jpg

Who's got the one that is sitting on a table in like a conference room. It's painted and has vertical stripes like a grass paint job, tan, 1-4, sopmod stock.....  That one should be in here I think .  Harris 6-9...  LT-104   Anyone?  Bueller?  Bueller?

https://i.imgur.com/oifBLaM.jpg
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Took you long enough to show up! That fist pic is an mk12 tho
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 4:30:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By eMc9001:

Yeah, well I understand the preban life lol. That's inevitable.
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Luckily for me and thanks to my homie who shall remain nameless to protect his identity from lower hungry cloners behind enemy lines, I got a Bushmaster a2 lower for $200
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 4:31:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Dobs013:

Luckily for me and thanks to my homie who shall remain nameless to protect his identity from lower hungry cloners behind enemy lines, I got a Bushmaster a2 lower for $200
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The struggle is real when a $200 bushmaster lower is golden bliss.
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 4:31:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2018 4:34:15 PM EST by Dobs013]
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Originally Posted By eMc9001:

The struggle is real when a $200 bushmaster lower is golden bliss.
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Right!?

ETA- at least it's not an $1500 essential arms. I'm am going to find a preban sendra lower for this thing at some point.
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 4:40:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2018 4:40:45 PM EST by eMc9001]
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Originally Posted By Dobs013:

Right!?

ETA- at least it's not an $1500 essential arms. I'm am going to find a preban sendra lower for this thing at some point.
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Make's me feel good for buying a KAC Ambi lower for $650.
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 4:42:21 PM EST
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Originally Posted By eMc9001:

Make's me feel good for buying a KAC Ambi lower for $650.
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Compared to what I'm used to that's a steal!
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 5:24:34 PM EST
Anyone been to sharkarms.com? They have stripped colt uppers for $125... I can’t find them cheap so I may order one and a full auto BCG as well.

Would I want a square or keyhole upper?
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 5:28:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dobs013:

I still think this is a grey area. For clone purposes, other than it being made by colt, a colt commercial lower is more clone incorrect than any standard milspec a2 profile lower just from the stand point of the missing selector stops. And while the pony and colt denfense marks are the same the rest of the roll mark is different and missing the govt property line. Now I get I'm getting into semantics at this point but just saying
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Link Posted: 6/12/2018 5:31:01 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:
Anyone been to sharkarms.com? They have stripped colt uppers for $125... I can’t find them cheap so I may order one and a full auto BCG as well.

Would I want a square or keyhole upper?
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There was a thread a few weeks ago and errbody said shark arms was good to go.  It’s hard to go wrong with the keyhole
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 6:10:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:
Anyone been to sharkarms.com? They have stripped colt uppers for $125... I can’t find them cheap so I may order one and a full auto BCG as well.

Would I want a square or keyhole upper?
View Quote
Keyhole is what you would want, Cerro was the primary forge supplier to colt around the time that the recce was in full swing. By the time brass aluminum started supplying colt, the change over to the 416 was starting. Now if you are going early recce (lilja/249f) combo the the correct upper would be raised "C AF" markings.
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 10:20:08 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Dobs013:
Keyhole is what you would want, Cerro was the primary forge supplier to colt around the time that the recce was in full swing. By the time brass aluminum started supplying colt, the change over to the 416 was starting. Now if you are going early recce (lilja/249f) combo the the correct upper would be raised "C AF" markings.
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Originally Posted By Dobs013:
Originally Posted By GuynamedDave:
Anyone been to sharkarms.com? They have stripped colt uppers for $125... I can’t find them cheap so I may order one and a full auto BCG as well.

Would I want a square or keyhole upper?
Keyhole is what you would want, Cerro was the primary forge supplier to colt around the time that the recce was in full swing. By the time brass aluminum started supplying colt, the change over to the 416 was starting. Now if you are going early recce (lilja/249f) combo the the correct upper would be raised "C AF" markings.
Looks like more orders will be placed this week
Link Posted: 6/12/2018 10:22:02 PM EST
My absolute favorite rifle ever and pretty much what I’m building toward, with a Leupold MRT instead of the NF.

Link Posted: 6/13/2018 10:09:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2018 10:10:08 AM EST by donkeykong]
What low pro gas blocks are you guys using under your KAC long FF RAS?

I have an inbound Lilja barrel and do not want to pin the gas block.
Link Posted: 6/13/2018 11:04:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2018 11:04:40 AM EST by Eyekahn]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By donkeykong:

What low pro gas blocks are you guys using under your KAC long FF RAS?

I have an inbound Lilja barrel and do not want to pin the gas block.
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Badger would be clone correct.
Link Posted: 6/13/2018 11:05:04 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Infidel4life11:
That Marine is using a MK12 mod 1, I believe
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Originally Posted By Infidel4life11:
Originally Posted By JJREA:
http://www.rhinoden.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/IMG_0061.jpg

Who's got the one that is sitting on a table in like a conference room. It's painted and has vertical stripes like a grass paint job, tan, 1-4, sopmod stock.....  That one should be in here I think .  Harris 6-9...  LT-104   Anyone?  Bueller?  Bueller?
That Marine is using a MK12 mod 1, I believe
That's a SEAL.
Link Posted: 6/13/2018 11:05:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2018 11:06:48 AM EST by BigBoss01]
I'm liking this thread.
Link Posted: 6/13/2018 11:08:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2018 11:23:07 AM EST by BigBoss01]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lancecriminal86:

Those are the Leupold "PR" models, an example of one is HERE
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Thanks! I love seeing "non standard/issue" optics in use.
Link Posted: 6/13/2018 11:34:37 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Eyekahn:

Badger would be clone correct.
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Thank you.
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