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Posted: 10/2/2004 12:57:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 1:00:57 PM EDT by Black-X]
Here's a link: www.jdtactical.com/jdTacticalStore/Catalog/category/00017

I bought the first AR upper in this link a while back. It's a Bushmaster Pre-ban 16" flat top upper. It came with the carry handle, and this is where I have a question. Do they come with an actual Bushmaster carry handle, or is it a knockoff carry handle? I sold the carry handle to a member on the boards here and he says that he thinks it's a chinese carry handle! here
If anyone has dealt with this company or has any useful info, I'd really appreciate a little help. I sold this carry handle as a Bushmaster, and if it's truely not, then I feel like an ass and did it completely on accident. PLEASE guru's, offer a little insight to a semi-newb. Thanks in advance!
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 1:10:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 1:19:36 PM EDT
The guy that bought it off me said that not all of them have a forge marking, but most do. He also said that the chinese stuff doesn't have the forge marks either though...

I didn't see a forge mark on it anywhere. I guess if there's any way to prove that the handle I sold him wasn't actually a Bushmaster or equivalent, I'll take it back and cut it to make a rear sight to go with my red dot.

Link Posted: 10/2/2004 1:29:56 PM EDT
The guy who bought it from me is pretty damn sure that it's a chinese copy. Pisses me off that JDTactical sold me a chinese handle for my Bushmaster upper. Now I'm starting to worry that my upper is a chinese copy...
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 1:34:21 PM EDT
E-mail them and ask, let us know what they say.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:03:39 PM EDT
I've sent them an email regarding this. IF I don't get a satisfactory answer, then I might have to ask the member's of AR15.com to rally with me and post in this thread. When/if there's enough replies, I will forward this thread to them.

I find it kinda dirty to sell a Bushmaster upper with a chinese knockoff carry handle and no information is given that the handle isn't Bushmaster as well.

It may or may not have an effect on them, but I've got to do something.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 5:39:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:15:19 PM EDT
That's terrible. I can't believe dealers are doing this. I paid REALLY close to what Bushmaster has listed for the upper w/carry handle I bought. This really pisses me off.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:20:19 AM EDT
here's the response from them:

"I only buy American high quality parts and if you ever see one of those chinese carry handles you will see the night and day difference. You have a carry handle that came from Bushmaster but read on. The question you ask is legitament because a lot of people do not know where this stuff comes from. Companies like Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, DPMS, Rock River Arms to name a few all buy parts from the same manufacturers. If you ever get to go to the Shot Show where you can see Bushmasters display and look at the casting marks on the upper receivers and the carry handles. Then go look at the same things with the other companies on display and you will see the exact same casting marks. I have purchased carry handles from Bushmaster many times and I get a series of different casting marks. Most people just assume that because this stuff comes from Bushmaster that they are the manufacturer. I was selling the AR Ske

Check my e-bay rating onder the jdtactical seller name and read the comments, then tell me who you believe."

Here's my response:

"I did check your ebay feedback and that is a BIG reason I bought from you! lol

The only thing that is bothering me is that my handle isn't forged. It's cast. The marks you were describing on other handles are forge marks, not cast marks. Regardless, mine does not have a forge mark, but it has casting "dimples" on it. These casting "dimples" lead me to believe that this handle is a cheap copy. I do understand that there are a few companies that make most of these parts and they are sold under different names. ;)

Don't think that I'm mad or anything. I'm just dissapointed that I seem to have possibly received (maybe on accident) a cheap version of the Bushy carry handle. Is there anything we can do to possibly resolve this? Would you like pictures? I can take a close up of where the forge mark should be (but isn't) if it will help. Please advise if there's anything we can do.

Thank you"

I haven't heard back from them yet...
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:57:41 AM EDT
Here's some BIG pics of my carry handle. Let me know what you all think it is please! (wish i had a better camera) you have to look VERY close to see the cast marks/dimples, but you can see one to the right of the elevation adjustment knob on the first pic.


Link Posted: 10/9/2004 1:29:49 PM EDT
I´m pretty sure that carry handlle is cast, not forged. It just looks too fancy.

Below is picture of Cardinal Forge carry handle I bought from Brownells.


Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:28:00 PM EDT
well, here's the response i got:

"I do not need photos because I kanow exactly what you have. These are the ones I have been getting from Bushmaster for the last two years. They are the same ones that were on the Bushmaster display guns at this years Shot Show in Las Vegas. I do not and never have bought any cheap copies of anything. What else can I tell you?"

What should i do now?
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:24:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 7:27:06 PM EDT by El_Roto]
How big of a stink do you want to make over a carry handle? Forget who's right/wrong -you can't prove the CH from jdtactical is the one they sold you and they're shutting you out, so that's over.

So, that leaves your buyer. Do you ignore him, or have him return the "fake" CH and try to determine its authenticity. As soon as it leaves his hands you can never say, "It's real, take it back," because only a moron would agree that you returned the identical CH, so you're back to Square 1 there.

You asked for advice, so here's mine:

Take the damn CH back, refund the guy's money, and chalk this up as a learning experience.

Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:28:34 PM EDT
If its really important, have the buyer send it to BFI for inspection. Should it not be one of theirs, contact the dealer.

This is the kind of thing I would pursue out of principle, regardless of cost. YMMV.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:49:52 PM EDT
Try posting in the Bushmaster forum and ask them if their carry handles are cast/ if that's theres.
Perhaps BM has switched to a cheaper part.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:50:52 PM EDT
I'm with combat jack if they sold you a knockoff I would definetly pursue this and inform people.
Regardless of what it cost or is worth its pretty shitty to represent something that it isn't.
If you decide not to use it as buis.
I might be inerested price dependant.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:24:16 PM EDT
oh, i've already refunded the buyer his money. i have the carry handle back in my possesion.

i guess i'm going to try and pursue this some. i'm a "close-to-broke" college student, so money is a concern to me right now.

if/when anything else happens, i'll update. thanx for all the replies!
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:05:50 PM EDT
Hey Guys,

I'm located in the Orlando area, not far from JDTactical. I see him at all the local shows, and have bought several uppers from him. He does not sell knock off's. I did have to send a upper back to Bushmaster for repair (manufacturing defect). JDTactical paid shipping both ways. Bushy confirmed that all his uppers and handles do come from them.

Hope this might help for what it's worth.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:18:38 AM EDT
Reading this thread, the JDTactical response was polite and logical. It also seems that people have received good service and product from them in the past and they even check out with Bushmaster. So here's what I'd do:

1) Get the handle back from the guy you sold it to and give him his money back.

2) Then, I probably just keep it. It sounds like a good handle and the guy you sold it to it just wrong that it is a cheap Chinese knock-off.

3) If you really want to....send the handle back to JDTactical and have them swap it out for you. They sound like nice people; they will probably do that for you.

Final question, just because I'm curious: if you sold the handle, what did you put on your flattop?
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 1:05:57 PM EDT
1)Guy that bought the handle already has his money back (for quite some time now might i add!)

2)I'm keeping it. I made a BUIS out of it and I am MORE than pleased with the results!!!

3)Don't see a need to send it back. I'm now happy with it in it's current state. I'm VERY happy to find out that it is actually a Bushy and the guy i sold it to was wrong.

4)I have a (i know, i'm not part of the Gucci club yet.) Simmons 42mm red dot on a riser mount. now i have a (cut) Bushmaster BUIS to co-witness the red dot.

I think that the response i received from JDTactical was a good one. If he swears he sold mea Bushy carry handle with my upper and a couple of you have seen them before and agree, then i'm happy as a clam.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 1:11:15 PM EDT
BTW, i paid $485+shipping for it.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 1:42:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 3:56:57 PM EDT by j3_]
I have one of the Chinese ones that has circular indents on it. One on each side of the elevation knob and one near the front of the handle on the same side for a total of three. None of the US ones I have have the little circles indented in them
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