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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 4/3/2006 7:40:48 PM EDT
I am trying to decide on high quanity SHTF ammo. Having a hard time deciding (quanity vs. quality vs. price ).

1) .223 lake city green tip 62 grain (qty 1000)-$219

2) .223 wolf m193 55grain (qty 1000)-$200

3) .223 Guatamala 55 grain (qty 1440)-$246

what would you buy?Any other sugestions would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:43:03 PM EDT
#1
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:49:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 8:05:39 PM EDT by Bogey1911]
From a value standpoint:
LC M855 (NOT PD) =$.219 per
Wolf M193 =$.20 per
Guat M193 =$.17 per

If the LC is the real deal, that is a smoking price.
There are several threads about the Guatamalan and Wolf brass M193. Wolf doesn't seem to work for everyoneand the Guat is a crapshoot with corroded cases. If the M855 is front line, i would get that in a heartbeat.

Wolf M193
Guat M193
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:51:07 PM EDT
You may also want to consider Black Hills 75gr blue box.

This is probably the most affordable yet highly effective ammo that can be had.

$379 per 1000
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 11:28:19 PM EDT
Check this out.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:20:14 AM EDT
For quantity vs quality vs price - you are gonna have a tough decision.

If Wolf M193 will run reliably in your weapons, then that would be a solid choice. Test thoroughly.

I have no issue with Guatemalan M193 for storage, based on my results, or reported results of others.

I wont buy XM855PD. No way. No how.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:29:14 PM EDT
If I am limited to only those choices, #1.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:43:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 5:26:34 PM EDT by Tromatic]

Originally Posted By trojman:
I am trying to decide on high quanity SHTF ammo. Having a hard time deciding (quanity vs. quality vs. price ).

1) .223 lake city green tip 62 grain (qty 1000)-$219

2) .223 wolf m193 55grain (qty 1000)-$200

3) .223 Guatamala 55 grain (qty 1440)-$246

what would you buy?Any other sugestions would be appreciated.



And when you find that the 15k of the Wolf and Guat ammo sucks, it's a bit late. You said it's for SHTF. What's 19 bucks for that? I've given up on buying ammo by price for stuff I'm stashing. Spend it up front, and don't worry too much later. Money will be worthless anyway.

ETA: Yeah, Wolf is fine stuff, it's more LC and the like for me.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:57:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tromatic:

Originally Posted By trojman:
I am trying to decide on high quanity SHTF ammo. Having a hard time deciding (quanity vs. quality vs. price ).

1) .223 lake city green tip 62 grain (qty 1000)-$219

2) .223 wolf m193 55grain (qty 1000)-$200

3) .223 Guatamala 55 grain (qty 1440)-$246

what would you buy?Any other sugestions would be appreciated.



And when you find that the 15k of the Wolf and Guat ammo sucks, it's a bit late. You said it's for SHTF. What's 19 bucks for that? I've given up on buying ammo by price for stuff I'm stashing. Spend it up front, and don't worry too much later. Money will be worthless anyway.




+1
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:17:23 PM EDT
How about some Q3131 or XM193? The XM193 or Q3131 can still be had for about $240 per K. Tromatic has the right idea. Good quality ammo.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 7:37:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 7:42:20 AM EDT by ODA_564]
Non-linear thinking.

If you actually believe the "S" will "HTF" what is your assumed scenario? The end of the world as we know it? A riot after a hurricane coinciding with some guy getting beaten on TV? Neo-NAZI terrorists popping a nuke at the Super Bowl 80 miles from your house? Holding off the NWO's hidden Soviet divisions when they pour out of the salt caverns in MO and follow the bar-coded road signs to your house to round you up for the FEMA death camps? Any or all of the above?

Principle rule when you can't buy what you want anymore is "there won't be anymore" so you need to consider "P for plenty".

It would be far better to have a 10/22 and 10 million rounds of .22 than an AR-15 and a thousand rounds of "X" ammunition. 1K is, to use a blend Soviet and US thinking, 4.76 "units of fire" where a unit of fire is assumed to be the US Army's 'standard' basic load for a rifleman of 210 rounds of 5.56mm.

Now, the idea of the 'basic load' is that that is how much ammunition a soldier needs for a firefight prior to resupply. The Army considers the heavy weapons (artillery, machine-guns, etc.) to be the real killers. Experience in sustained combat is that 7 x 30 round magazines is insufficient for unsupported riflemen (no artillery, no air power, no machine-guns, no grenade launchers, etc.). MAC-SOG elements operating unsupported in SEA carried 400+ rounds per rifle. Ammo gets burned up fast in a fight. ETA: Read the accounts of how much ammo MAC-SOG RT's burned up when they came in contact with the NVA - guys clambered aboard extraction helos after 1-2 day running gunfights with empty weapons even after they scavanged every round off the wounded and dead - if they made it out. And they had grenades and claymores

So, how many cases can you stockpile for the 'most likely' SHTF scenario you have decided to prepare for? 10K of BH's 75 grain would be $3790. 10K of polymer-coated, steel cased Wolf would be $1290 (at $129). You could get slightly less than 30 cases of Wolf for the cost of the BH.

Of course, all of this assumes a static position for your SHTF scenario. Your home is probably not defensible against a zombie horde or a NWO air assault from black helicopters. You can't tote more than about 500 rounds on your person and any other gear (assuming you are in decent shape and not a morbidly obese person with 87 major, life-threatening physical aliments). Many of us have pick-up trucks or SUVs, so 10 cases of 5.56mm would be manageable, except that there are all those other requirements, like food and water.

In my (purely hypothetical) case, I would (hypothetically) have to provide ammunition for four (4) adult family members. That's four hypothetical rifles and four hypothetical pistols. Assuming (hypothetically) that my hypothetical planning is to provide 5 units of fire (five basic loads) per adult, that's 1050 hypothetical rounds per person or 4200 rounds total (hypothetically). Call it 5 cases for the hypothetical initial SHTF situation. Then you have to sight in and train, train, train, train, train.

If "there wasn't anymore" and I'd shot up my stockpile fighting off the plague -infested hordes from my rooftop sanctuary I'd be happy to get rounds reloaded with black powder and using hacksawed nails as projectiles.

Dead is dead. "P for plenty" And what ever your hypothetically scenario is, it won't happen. Either some other situation will, or nothing will - "no plan and its assumptions ever survives contact with reality".
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 7:58:19 AM EDT
Out of your pick I would go with LC M855!!


Wolf M193 is great for MY SHORT AR`S but its NEW not alot of reports yet?


I would buy all the Q3131 or Q3131A xm193 I could find!

Black hills Blue Box 75gr is good ammo also Very accurate
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 12:08:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Non-linear thinking.

If you actually believe the "S" will "HTF" what is your assumed scenario? The end of the world as we know it? A riot after a hurricane coinciding with some guy getting beaten on TV? Neo-NAZI terrorists popping a nuke at the Super Bowl 80 miles from your house? Holding off the NWO's hidden Soviet divisions when they pour out of the salt caverns in MO and follow the bar-coded road signs to your house to round you up for the FEMA death camps? Any or all of the above?

Principle rule when you can't buy what you want anymore is "there won't be anymore" so you need to consider "P for plenty".

It would be far better to have a 10/22 and 10 million rounds of .22 than an AR-15 and a thousand rounds of "X" ammunition. 1K is, to use a blend Soviet and US thinking, 4.76 "units of fire" where a unit of fire is assumed to be the US Army's 'standard' basic load for a rifleman of 210 rounds of 5.56mm.

Now, the idea of the 'basic load' is that that is how much ammunition a soldier needs for a firefight prior to resupply. The Army considers the heavy weapons (artillery, machine-guns, etc.) to be the real killers. Experience in sustained combat is that 7 x 30 round magazines is insufficient for unsupported riflemen (no artillery, no air power, no machine-guns, no grenade launchers, etc.). MAC-SOG elements operating unsupported in SEA carried 400+ rounds per rifle. Ammo gets burned up fast in a fight. ETA: Read the accounts of how much ammo MAC-SOG RT's burned up when they came in contact with the NVA - guys clambered aboard extraction helos after 1-2 day running gunfights with empty weapons even after they scavanged every round off the wounded and dead - if they made it out. And they had grenades and claymores

So, how many cases can you stockpile for the 'most likely' SHTF scenario you have decided to prepare for? 10K of BH's 75 grain would be $3790. 10K of polymer-coated, steel cased Wolf would be $1290 (at $129). You could get slightly less than 30 cases of Wolf for the cost of the BH.

Of course, all of this assumes a static position for your SHTF scenario. Your home is probably not defensible against a zombie horde or a NWO air assault from black helicopters. You can't tote more than about 500 rounds on your person and any other gear (assuming you are in decent shape and not a morbidly obese person with 87 major, life-threatening physical aliments). Many of us have pick-up trucks or SUVs, so 10 cases of 5.56mm would be manageable, except that there are all those other requirements, like food and water.

In my (purely hypothetical) case, I would (hypothetically) have to provide ammunition for four (4) adult family members. That's four hypothetical rifles and four hypothetical pistols. Assuming (hypothetically) that my hypothetical planning is to provide 5 units of fire (five basic loads) per adult, that's 1050 hypothetical rounds per person or 4200 rounds total (hypothetically). Call it 5 cases for the hypothetical initial SHTF situation. Then you have to sight in and train, train, train, train, train.

If "there wasn't anymore" and I'd shot up my stockpile fighting off the plague -infested hordes from my rooftop sanctuary I'd be happy to get rounds reloaded with black powder and using hacksawed nails as projectiles.

Dead is dead. "P for plenty" And what ever your hypothetically scenario is, it won't happen. Either some other situation will, or nothing will - "no plan and its assumptions ever survives contact with reality".


Sooo... basically what ODA is trying to say is buy as much of whatever you can afford. I think.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 12:19:39 PM EDT
To quote Marshal Zukhov: "Quantity has a quality all its own".
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 12:26:42 PM EDT
I agree 100% with ODA. If you have 3K rounds, odds are you will get shot 100x before you have the oppurtunity to use all that ammo. If it works, it will kill. Brand is not as important as if it works to begin with.
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