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Posted: 5/14/2003 9:24:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2003 8:12:57 PM EDT by new-arguy]
No, I dont have pics yet. I dont even have it all assembled yet. But the suspense is KILLING me!!! Here's what I have coming together.

Its built of an Armalite but it doesnt look anything like what it started out as...

I changed the green buttstock for a black one and added the SPR grip Wes sells over at MSTN. I am thinking about a VLTOR Clubfoot, or possibly even one of the old style hook stocks. But I want to think about it more.

I have the latest Generation PRI carbon fiber tube that is coated black and a ARMS SPR rail to go on top of that backed up with an ARMS #40. On top of that is ARMS #22Med rings with the TRC and TRR on the front ring. On top of the TRR is a Dr. Optics with a 3 moa dot. In the rings is a Leupold LRM3 with the Premiere Reticle second Gen mildot. In front of all that is the newest PRI flip up front sight with the 4 set screws. Beneath the PRI tube is the ARMS #35 bi-pod adapter with a swivel harries bi-pod. Inside the lower is a Knights Armament 2 stage trigger (thanks for talking me out of my initiall idea and into the Knights Wes.)

All of the above is in hand and awaiting the last piece of the puzzle... the barrel. I wound up ordering a Stainless Krieger. Its a 1/7 twist, full 20" and crowned. No muzzle attachement. It is fluted for and aft, and has the enhanced feed ramps. Oddly enough, and to my suprise, the upper in the Armalite had the cuts for the feedramps cut into it. It is coming with a fitted bolt. I did not want to coat the stainless with black, because personally I really think the stainless with the flutes looks far too sweet to cover. But I hate reflective, shiney serfaces, so I am at least getting it bead blasted so it will be a matte silver-grey. I've been told the barrel will ship to me late this week or early next. Once that happens, we'l slap it all together.

I cant remember the last time I have been so hyped to build a rig. I sit there and put all the parts I have together to try and see what it will be like when its all done. I talk about it constantly and am making arrangements to go shoot it without knowing if I will have it all together in time!

In any case, as soon as it is all together, you all will be among the first to see it!
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 9:44:22 PM EDT
Sounds like a sweet set-up! [beer] What kind of ammo will you be shooting out of it? Also, why didn't you use a SIR #58 instead of the PRI tube + ARMS rail? I'd considering bowflauging the entire rifle to blend in with the FL swamps so you can be a Swamp Ninja! [:D]
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 1:27:38 AM EDT
I just put mine together.Naturaly I bought the upper componets from WES.I have one of WES'special uppers with a new style PRI tube and ARMS rail.ARMS 40A2 rear sight PRI front sight OPS INC two port brake,Compass Lake Eng. 18" barrel with matching bolt.ARMS #22 MED rings with the TRR and TRC.A Kahles 10X MILDOT scope that I had laying around.KAC bipod adapter with a Harris BRMS bipod.The lower is a RR Colt M16 with a KAC two stage trigger.Canadian short A2 stock and SPR pistol grip.I did put a Les Baer match semi bolt in it so no one can shoot it full auto.I plan on breaking it in this weekend.A special thnks to WES.I order the last componets from him on monday 4pm and they arrived tuesday am.SJR556.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 2:33:31 AM EDT
Dear God Neil I hope the IRS never audits you and see you are infact the highest paid waiter in America LOL! That set up is ridiculously awesome. What was your initial trigger going to be? Glad to hear you got the Knight's... have you had a chance to fire it in another rifle or at least dry fire it?
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 9:16:30 PM EDT
I went with the SPR rail and #22Med rings over the #58 because I like the looks, rigidity and strength inherant of the PRI + ARMS rail combo. One full and uninturrupted rail just seems like the best way to mount optics where you need them to me. Dev, I was going to take my JP single stage trigger out of my SIR gun and put it in the SPR. Then I was going to get an Accuracy Speaks for the SIR gun. Wes, being the gear *GOD* he is spent I dont even know how much time talking to me about all the gear I wound up with. We spent maybe close to an hour one day talking about all the triggers out there, the ones each of us have tried and the results we've had. I'm really pleased with my JP trigger. It is truly a sweet piece of work. I had JP install it, and upon actually measutring it, I discovered it breaks at a very clean and crisp two and 3/4 pounds. No creep, no overtravel, just a little pressure and a clean break. Awesom single stage trigger. I credit it as being one ofthe main reasons I have been able to acheive the accuracy I have out of my little SIR rifle. I dont really want a double stage trigger in the SIR though. Thats a quick use fast paced, fluid shooting gun that needs that kind of trigger. But the SPR is obviously a different gun. A nice double stage trigger will fit right in on that patform. I havent installed the trigger into the rifle yet, maybe I will do that tomorrow. I am excited to see what its like. I have heard nothing, and I do mean absolutely nothing, but the very highest of praise about this trigger. I fear that the JP has me spoiled though. Time will tell. I'll most likely be shooting Black Hills 75gr ammo out of this, but I will try a variety of loads to see what it likes best. Im open to any and all suggestions. When I recoup some of the rather large dent this left in my bank account, I will get a Surefire M981SU for this thing. And look a little more into other butt stocks. But for now I am really pleased with all I have in. Even the Fr Optics sight is pretty cool. For now, I'm trying to sit patiently and wat for this barrel to come in. It will really be the crown jewel of this whole rig. I've been told accuracy will just keep getting better and better over time. It wont even start to break in and smooth out till after about 1000 rounds? I look forward to trying!
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 5:16:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 9:19:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By themao: Also, why didn't you use a SIR #58 instead of the PRI tube + ARMS rail? [:D]
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Because He wants an SPR. The PRI Tube and the ARMS Rail are the sweetest setup.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:49:13 AM EDT
Neil, Good to hear you got it now I am very jealous - I have to upgrade mine...
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:09:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 11:10:18 AM EDT by MAHABALI]
Wow! post pics as soon as it's finished! Edited to add: Your a gear queer!
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:14:57 AM EDT
I think I need to quit my job and become a waiter.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 12:15:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 5:29:33 PM EDT
That brings up another point then, what's better for the gas system in terms of reliability with these heavier rounds? Carbine length, mid-length or full length gas systems? Thanks guys
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 9:29:29 PM EDT
Folks, I have to tell you, this is murder. So today I sort of start putting it together. I cant do it all, because I really need the barrel to start really assembling it, but it was killing me to see all these pieces sitting there and me not doing anything. So I put the trigger in first. Whoa. Unbelievable. Not ANYTHING like what I would expect. Its a 2 stage trigger. All I can say is where the heck is the 2nd stage? As it stands, theres a first stage that takes about 2 1/3 pounds to engage, then at the end of a very short pull, it just breaks. Very impressive. The only other thing I could really do is sort of assemble the sighting system. I put the scope in the rings and the rings on the rail. Added the Dr Optics and just looked at it. If you asked me why I went with the SPR rail, all you have to do is look at the thing to know. The thing is simply a monster. If all else fails, I take it off and beat someone to death with it. Its not that its really heavy enough to do so, but the thing is SOLID. All I did after that was install the SPR grip Wes sells. I dont know what its called or who makes it. All I know is my invoice said 1 SPR grip. So thats what I call it. Wes, are you the only one selling the thing? Anyway, its a excellent, excellent grip for the gun. I dont think I would want it on one of my running and gunning rigs, but for a settle down behind the rifle and put each shot exactly where it needs to go type rig, it is very comfortable. I imediately felt the need for a gapper on the thing though. I have them on all my rifles, so I'm probably a little sensative to not having one. Just so you all know, while fine dining is my main bread and butter job, I also have ANOTHER full time job. I work about 80 hours a week between both and thats the main reason why you will see me post only late at night. Its also the reason I am always bothering Wes on the phone instead of emailing him. I have no computer access at either job. I get about 1 full day off a week, and even then I am usually going in to my day job to help customers of mine out. So, needless to say, dont all of you go out quitting your jobs to become waiters. While its a great job that I really enjoy, its not the job which enables me to get the gear I like. Also, please keep in mind, I live a VERY simple life. I drive a very modest car, have a very modest apt. and wardrobe. I have no wife, no kids, not even a damn girlfriend right now. There is no food in my fridge and I dont have cable. I dont party at all, (as in never) I dont smoke, drink, do drugs or anything like that. Needless to say, all of this allows me to spend the money I do make on the things that I want. Just so we're on the same page [;)]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 9:40:10 PM EDT
Neil, Other than I just bought a 2003 Ford F150 King Ranch we could have been brothers [:D]. You need another Magpull stock for this gun... I have decided to sell my PRI tube in favour of the KAC FF RAS...
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 9:55:30 PM EDT
Neil, what is this no picture thing, you are just a tease!! [:0] Chen
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:10:55 PM EDT
Neil, do you still think the KAC 2 stage is going to be much slower than a single stage trigger for close in shooting? I really cant tell its a not single stage unless I need the second stage for a precision shot. When I let Brouhaha's girl friend try it she didnt even realize it was a 2 stage trigger till half a mag was gone. Also what spring do you have in the trigger the 3.5# or the 4.5#? The grip is a Sierra Precision grip... wish they made an ambi version.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:11:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy: I have no wife, no kids, not even a damn girlfriend right now. There is no food in my fridge and I dont have cable.
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Aaahhhh, I remember the good 'ole days...[>(]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:43:55 PM EDT
Sounds like a very sweet stick! I finished mine about a month ago, and it goes like this: Started out as a Colt A3. Replaced trigger with the Colt "Match" trigger pirated from my Colt CR6724, which got a JP previously. After much stoning and polishing, plus a JP spring kit the Colt Match trigger is acceptable. Installed a Douglas SS Premium 20" 1/8 twist barrel machined by Merchant (from Brownells) w/ threaded muzzle. Installed OPS, Inc. brake, welded by a friend that has this new stainless micro welder used for jewelry and medical equipment. The weld is so neat that it looks like a washer! Handguard/Floater system is by Young Manufacturing (the guy that makes the match bolt carriers). It's an aluminum tube that looks very much like the PRI fiber one, except the cooling holes are slotted instead of round. It is complete with the full length (over the handguard and upper) one piece top rail, and three short front rails (very similar to the military SPR). KAS rail adaptor used for the Harris. Iron sights are a KAS 300m flip-up BUIS at the back and a Fulton Armory flip-up front mounted on an ArmaLite rail gas block. The glass is one of the old B&L Tac 10x (one of the best ever), mounted using an ARMS throw lever QR track mounting #35 base with ARMS #35M trackmount rings and the front ring /rail, all from Wes. Grip is an Ergo Ambi. Still working up loads, waiting for 77gr. bullets to arrive, but it beats .75MOA with an old 69gr. Service Rifle load that I had laying around! I do have some pictures, taken just before the brake was installed, but otherwise complete. They're already downloaded in my computer, now if I could only figure out how to transfer them and get them posted. I'm pretty good around machinery, but computer illiterate. If any of you guys want to see them, and can walk me through the process of transfering them, I'd be happy to put out the effort. My photo program is an antiquated Epson 500, but I was able to sucessfully transfer some pics a couple of years ago, just forgot how!
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 6:42:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy: All I did after that was install the SPR grip Wes sells. I dont know what its called or who makes it. All I know is my invoice said 1 SPR grip. So thats what I call it. Wes, are you the only one selling the thing?
View Quote
They are made by Sierra Precision Rifles, hence "SPR grip". Brownell's sells them too. Actually, you can assemble the whole thing without the barrel - that's what I did while waiting for my barrel to arrive. Nice and light that way [;)]
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 12:04:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 7:31:56 AM EDT by davkenrem]
Originally Posted By McBoingBoing616: Handguard/Floater system is by Young Manufacturing (the guy that makes the match bolt carriers). It's an aluminum tube that looks very much like the PRI fiber one, except the cooling holes are slotted instead of round. It is complete with the full length (over the handguard and upper) one piece top rail, and three short front rails (very similar to the military SPR). KAS rail adaptor used for the Harris.
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Like This? [url]http://davkenrem.net/myspr2-1.jpg[/url]
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 1:23:30 PM EDT
Yup, just like that! The only difference is that I had to cut the last (approx.) 1/4 inch off the rear of the top rail to allow the KAS BUIS to fit the upper.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 8:18:46 PM EDT
RE: the trigger; yeah, the Knights is a 2 stage trigger. The way I have mine, its *clearly* different (i.e. superior!) to any 2 stage trigger I have ever used, but it is not a single stage. Single stage triggers are just that. There is no first then second stage. On a single stage trigger, the trigger stay perfectly still until you apply enough pressure for it to break. There is no movement whatsoever on a single stage until the hammer breaks from the disconnector. This is the type of trigger I like on my "go-fast" guns. The trigger on those guns get pulled fast and numerous times in quick succession. Personally, I preffer just a light, clean, crisp break when pulling the trigger so quickly and as often as on a gun like that. In my opinion, a singe stage makes rapid paced shooting a little easier on you than if you were to try the same with a double stage. On the SPR, thats the type of gun that for the most part, you will be picking and choosing targets, concentrating on fundamentals each and every time you apply pressure to the trigger. On a gun like this the trigger will primarily get pulled slowly and deliberately, being careful to stay still while the trigger is engaged. This is the reason I really like this Knights trigger in this gun. I can apply pressure to the trigger, feel it creep back a little, and then before I know it, the second stage kicks in and the hammer falls. Thats the way I want it. And thats the reason I am so pleased that Wes talked me into trying the 2 stage trigger on this gun. I'm much happier with the 2 stage on this style gun than I would have been if I put the single stage JP in the SPR like I had previously planned. Both are, in my admittedly limited experience, the top of the line of each style. At least in as much as I have tried... Anyhow, still waiting for the barrel!
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 5:38:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy: This is the reason I really like this Knights trigger in this gun. I can apply pressure to the trigger, feel it creep back a little, and then before I know it, the second stage kicks in and the hammer falls.
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"Knight's trigger" and "creep" should never be mentioned in the same sentence [;)]
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 8:01:36 PM EDT
Jeez man, when I saw this all together, I was almost in tears. I swear to god, its been a long time since I built a rifle like this from the ground up... well, at least since I built one for myself. I have to say, it is precisely what I wanted. End to end. There are a couple things I still want for it. I need a Surefire M981SU, and I dont have my PRI flip up front site yet. It will be here on Wednesday. I'll be keeping the stock, er um, "stock" for the moment. I would like to put a Magpul MSS Sniper stock for it when it eventually comes out. Until then, nothing has really moved me. And I will eventually get that swivel lock for the bipod. I have a bunch of Black Hills 77 gr ammo on the way, and when the govt spec ammo gets here, I'll get some of that too. The only other thing I have on order for this thing that isnt here yet is a blackhawk rifle case. I'll be shooting it this Sunday and I am hyped. Anyhow, here's some initial pictures! [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/p085ebdd4de80f00c72a569b58c1fd083/fc1d6b81.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/pd7e54cd450cf948c7d491f7165febe1a/fc1d68c9.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/p3ba80cbc73ed63b0892ae8d7846b32e5/fc1d67db.jpg[/img] Look, here is my special secret product. Its a ARMS #42 1/2 gas block. You know, I thought it would be made of something nicer than duct tape! Just kidding, I just got that holding the gas tube still until my PRI flip up comes in on Wednesday. [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/pcd2e62c797a1aaa49c1dac29c95da175/fc1d63b7.jpg[/img] Stainless Krieger barrel, fluted fore and aft, the bead blasting gives it a really nice dull grey, non glare finish. Wes you were right man, the thing is heavy. I wonder how heavy it would be without the flutes? [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/p8e1ba5c39da71c22aa12824c5a0478a3/fc1d66e7.jpg[/img] Dr Optics emergency red dot! [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/pbb695680726f16dc73112cd03b555baa/fc1d665b.jpg[/img] Enhanced feed ramps in the barrel and upper! [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/p79511e9f43a4853ce2cc8ea4ef9840b7/fc1d655d.jpg[/img] Look how the upper is marked? Looks like a NATO cross with AR. Anyone got a clue? [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/p21b52ba01c2f7c3a2f20f547bdb4ae42/fc1d6493.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 8:12:34 PM EDT
Neil, Armalite upper. The original SPR people
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 8:34:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2003 8:36:35 PM EDT by themao]
The two cuts coming out the barrel extension looks to me to be similar to those found on full auto Colt M4s, right? I take it that it helps with the heavier bullets like 77 grain match kings, noslers, etc. Also, I must be dumb, but I did not know that the PRI sight itself was a gas block as well. I thought it was mounted to a milled gas block. I've never seen one in real life, since St. Louis SUCKS, so I guess that makes for confusion and ignorance. How much did this whole set up cost you sir? Armalite lower and upper I take it? Did you buy those seperate as NM uppers and lower or did you sacrifice one of your own?
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 8:37:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy: No, I dont have pics yet.
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[img]http://home.attbi.com/~superalpha123/worthless.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 9:15:43 PM EDT
Neil, I love you gun. I think the 981SU will look right at home on that.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 12:43:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 12:51:55 AM EDT by Ellery_Holt]
ARGuy, Nice rifle. I bet it'll be the proverbial tack-driver. You've got what you call an "emergency red dot" and you have back-up iron sights, and I don't understand the double redundancy? Please help me understand your reasoning. Backup-backup or Bling-bling? Thanks, and have fun on Sunday!
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 1:08:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 1:09:04 AM EDT by 1shot]
Holy shit! That's really nice. [shock][headbang] More pics/reports?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 1:29:45 AM EDT
He has a scope for long range and a dot for close range. His rear iron sight is a small aperature with elevation adjustments so it can be used for precision shooting should the main scope go down. The dot on the Dr Optic is quite large and cant be used for long range precision. Not bling-bling...
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:32:29 AM EDT
[:|]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:13:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By themao: ...I've never seen one in real life, since St. Louis SUCKS....
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Well it ain't CO (my old home), but it doesn't suck that bad. Anyway if you're coming to the Columbia shoot on the 31st, you can check my SPR clone out, assuming it's done. Real close to New-arguy's gun, but without as many of the finer things. Douglas 18" SPR Barrel SST 1:8 Twist (Compass Lake) OPS Inc 4-Port Muzzle Brake w/ Suppressor collar (for looks only) -bbl and brake bead blasted to satin finish PRI Gen III Carbon Fiber Forend ARMS SPR Rail for Gen III PRI Gas Buster Charging Handle PRI Front Flip Up Sight Bushmaster A4 Upper Receiver Bolt Carrier w/Hand Match Bolt from Compass Lake Harris S-BRM Bi-Pod ARMS #32 Throw Lever Bi-Pod Adapter ARMS #22 Medium Rings w/TRR & TRC Mounted Topped with a Leupold VXIII 3.5-10x40 M3 with GenII mildot (Premier Reticle)
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:57:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 8:57:24 AM EDT by SHIVAN458]
That looks really nice!!!!![:D] The red dot's POI is where, in comparison to the M3LR? That is a very nice setup......
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 9:27:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DevL: He has a scope for long range and a dot for close range. His rear iron sight is a small aperature with elevation adjustments so it can be used for precision shooting should the main scope go down. The dot on the Dr Optic is quite large and cant be used for long range precision. Not bling-bling...
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Between this help (thanks DevL) and a clear head after some sleep (up too late on AR15.com last night) the logic of the setup is clear to me. Thanks. [:)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 10:11:51 AM EDT
Neil, I'm really starting to dislike you and all your kick-ass toys [;)] I do have one question for you (or anyone else) and that is why would one need a Surefire on an SPR? I'm not trying to be a smart ass (although I usually am) but trying to find the reasoning behind using a light on a medium to long range rifle. Please get me up to speed.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 10:14:45 AM EDT
I'm guessing a 12V turbohead light has a fair share of range on it. But my guess is, mostly for the gee-whiz factor.[;)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:09:50 PM EDT
The iron sights are unusable without taking the scope off. I would rather be able to flip off the Dr Optics cover and use the dot site for anyt ranges closer than it would be feasible to use the scope. And I have back up iron sights for the mere reason that all guins should... period. If you ever looked through a scope, in darkness, and used a Surefire M98 unit, or even an M97 unit, you would not ask what use they are. These lights literally turn night into day and can readily light up targets out close to 400 yards. And that is a good relative range for this rifle. I am supremely confisdent that the rifle is super accurate beyond that, but beyond that, Im not sure what those 77gr Black Hills rounds will be doing? In any case, shame on you fior accusing me of bling. Despite the appearance of my rifles, they are the anti-bling... personified.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:16:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SHIVAN458: The red dot's POI is where? In comparison to the M3LR?
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Will the red dot POI be the same as the scopes?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:07:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy: In any case, shame on you fior accusing me of bling. Despite the appearance of my rifles, they are the anti-bling... personified.
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I know, I'm just jealous because I can't afford a light after paying for my SPR.[;)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:12:04 PM EDT
The height of the Dr. Optics would prevent it form being able to follow the same trajectory or have the same zero as the scope. But for the purpose the red dot serves, I dont thik it needs to. If I can have the red dot hitting minute of center mass [;)] anywhere from zero, to, oh I dont know, lets say 75 to 100 yards... I am a happy camper. And I believe that will be an easy task to accomplish. After 75 yards or so I believe I will easily be able to use the Leupold to take care of business. And to be clear... why the back up irons if I already have two other sight systems? simply because every gun that could be a weapon should have irons. As I see it, this is a mid long to long range gun. It is not set up to be a close range gun in any sense. However, it isnt insanely heavy (less than 12 pounds) and it is only as long as any other 20" barreled gun. Therefore, its weight and its size do not render it useless at close range. However, the scope does. Add an ARMS TRC and a TRR to an ARMS #22 ring, top it with a Dr Optics site, and you now have a gun that is more readily usefull at more ranges than you did before. Thats all. From everything I have seen, the Dr Optics site is a relatively rugged optic. It is not the best solution I agree. But I do think it is a better solution than going without it. Im all for building a gun to fit a specific task. Clearly a gun that was built for a specific task will truely excell when used within the parameters it was designed to be used. But if there is something you can do that will not detract from the special purpose of the gun, and make it more useful in a wider variety of circumstances, well then that just kicks ass. My run and gun, CQB SIR gun will shoot moa to sub-moa, on request, with almost any ammo, from prone. Clearly the SIR gun is not built to be a tack driver. It purpose is to be a handy, compact rifle that shoots and maneuvers quickly. The fact that I was able to build a CQB gun that will at the very least hold its own against most of the DCM Competition type guns you see on the bullseye line, without detracting from its performance at close quarters, blows my mind. The same is true of this SPR. If i can build a gun that will allow me to pick which corner of the bullseye I want to punch holes in, but also hold its own with a lot of other CQB guns you might see people running and gunning with, is a true testament to the modularity of the weapon system. The more genrally useful you can make a gun, again... without detracting from its speicific role, quite simply, puts more gun in your hand.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:03:12 AM EDT
Simply awesome Neil. I do have a few questions for you though. On your scope, the lens cover in the rear appears to flip upwards. Do you think this will hamper transition between the scope and the dr. optics? Did you give any consideration to any other calibers before going with the .223? From what I've seen, that whisper round has a lot of potential, expecially if you reload. I don't know if you reload or not. That would likely be the best way to squeeze the most accuracy out of the rifle. You'd likely be able to squeeze more range out of it too. Excellent choice with the Krieger barrel. What role do you intend this weapon to fill? A super accurate race gun bullseye shooter, or the hypothetical laying in the bushes waiting for Osama rig? This rifle seems to merge the two together half way. Except the lack of a flash suppressor or ability to fix a sound suppressor keeps it from being a full out sniper rifle. I assume the crowned Krieger traded accuracy vs. flash suppression. I also assume this is a postban lower. Combined with night vision, or thermal imaging [drool] this would be a very potent "reach out and touch someone" fighting tool. An IR illuminator in combination with the NV would be excellent. (not saying this is what you 'need') I like the two-tone stainless and black finish. Expecially with the fluting. All black looks cool, but there are 'better' choices out there for concealment. Shades of dark grey break up the outline better opposed to SOCOM black. I fully agree that Magpul's sniper stock will be perfect for your rifle. When looking at other options, such as the Fulton Armory race stock, they are far to complicated for a field gun. You're better off with the A2 or A1 standard stock, possibly with a cheek weld if you so desire. Good thing you went fluted and with the PRI carbon fiber. Weight issues can really ruin a project with accessories. I assume the balance of the rifle is pivoted right around the magwell. If you had went with a longer barrel 'race style', it could have ruined the balance. Do you intend to equip it with a forward vertical grip? If so, have you decided which one? That Dieter one would look/work good. Have the preasure switch from the light routed over to the grip. I'm not overly familiar with the PRI fail system, but are their addresses all along the bottom portion of the rail system? Good choice with the PRI. The front tower annoys the hell out of me thru a scope. I prefer the PRI over the GG&G anyhow. Plus, it will be far easier to install. I prefer the HK style aperature as well. Yet another excellent choice with the ARMS throw levers. Those thumb screws suck IMO. ARMS will keep their zero, yet still give you quick access to your BUIS. Do you intend to install Ashley/XS (or whatever the hell they're calling themselves this week) night sights in the BUIS? I remember your SIR equiped CQC gun did some very impressive numbers with a bushmaster barrel, I'm almost afraid to see what this thing can do. Awesome project, if this is bling, sign me up. -Steve
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 7:29:25 AM EDT
New-Arguy, are you in Law Enforcement or a civilian. Does this rifle have any real world use or is it a toy like mine?
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 8:05:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy: If you ever looked through a scope, in darkness, and used a Surefire M98 unit, or even an M97 unit, you would not ask what use they are. These lights literally turn night into day and can readily light up targets out close to 400 yards. And that is a good relative range for this rifle.
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No, I never looked through a scope in the darkness and used a Surefire M98 or M97. AND I didn't know that they could light up targets up to 400 yards away. That's why I asked the question, to learn. I didn't mean to offend you, I simply didn't know.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 10:43:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy: Despite the appearance of my rifles, they are the anti-bling... personified.
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Um, nice rifle, but - its definately not 'anti-bling personified'. 'Anti-bling personified' would be a 20" A2. Still very cool, I wish I had one, but it is well into the 'bling' category!
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 11:14:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NESurvival:
Originally Posted By new-arguy: Despite the appearance of my rifles, they are the anti-bling... personified.
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Um, nice rifle, but - its definately not 'anti-bling personified'. 'Anti-bling personified' would be a 20" A2. Still very cool, I wish I had one, but it is well into the 'bling' category!
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I assure you, everything on his rifles has a specific and legit purpose. There is no bling there.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 11:48:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 11:49:14 AM EDT by Forest]
Originally Posted By davkenrem: New-Arguy, are you in Law Enforcement or a civilian.
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Not to nit-pick but unless you are a MP (Military Police) all Law Enforcement Officers (Federal/State/County/Local) ARE civilians. Anyway Neil that is one HECK of a nice rifle.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 5:42:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 5:45:25 PM EDT by Gryphon223]
Law enforcement, while on duty, are not civilians. They are all CITIZENS, however. Merriam-Webster Online: Main Entry: ci·vil·ian Pronunciation: s&-'vil-y&n also -'vi-y&n Function: noun Date: 14th century 1 : a specialist in Roman or modern civil law [b]2 a : one not on active duty in a military, police, or fire-fighting force [/b]b : OUTSIDER 1 Yes, I like to nitpick. ;)
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:23:35 PM EDT
Got the PRI in today as planned and installed it. I shot it a few times to trest for function only. It cycled just fine. I should get my Black Hills 77gr ammo in the mail tomorrow. I will get out and so some real testing with it on Sunday. Then I will have the opportunity to shoot it out to 300 yards. Currently, that is the longest range I have access to. On to the questions... Steve; yes, the butler creek cap does interfere with the Dr Optics. I have to close it before I can use it. I tried to have the rear cap flip left or right, but it wouldnt work. The ARMS $ #40 gets in the way. I'm considering just taking it off all together, or maybe seeing how the scope will feel if I move it forward a little. Moving it forward a little may let me flip it to the left just like the front one. Is it that important to have it on? Im open to comments. I didnt really consider other calibers. If I would ave done it in another, I would have done .308 with an AR10. While I wouldnt argue some of the benefits other calibers may have, keeping it .223/5.56 just seemed to make the most sense *for me*. I do not reload. I have VERY little free time and what little I do get I dont want to be sitting at a bench pulling a lever. I'd rather be lying the the dirt pulling triggers. Therefore, keeping guns that shoot ammo that is readily available is imortant to me. There's also a lot to be said for not having to gear up around another caliber. I already have a ton of AR15 gear and accessories I can utilize with this gun. Spare parts, mags, pouches, etc, etc from my other ARs all work with this gun and that too is an advantage. I dont really do many (i.e. any) race gun or bulls eye type competitions. Put it this way, all my rifles get shot for fun right now. I truley and sincerely hope thats all I ever shoot them for. Even the FDCC competitions I participate in are just for fun. However, that doesnt mean thats all I set this gun up to be for. If all I wanted was a fun gun or a race gun, I sure as heck could have saved myself a BUNDLE. I view all my guns, my ARs, and this SPR included, as something that may very well be used for real at some point. Even if it is more than entirely likely that it never will be, I still try hard to build these guns like they absolutely will be. Yeah, the rifle is a postban. I thought about just building this as a preban upper for one of my preban lowers. But in the end, decided against it and went post ban. This Krieger barrel is available with a pretty kick butt compensator. However, adding this compensator will thread your barrel and will require the use of a preban lower. Same with the OPS brake Wes sells for SPRs. I dont know a real lot about muzzle brakes etc, but what little I have read is that they can/do effect accuracy. So, I just went with the crowned barrel. I understand this is the most accurate choice, and I dont really think I need a brake on this gun. While Ive not shot it for real yet, I cant imagine it having enough reoil for me to wish I had a brake. Put it this way, if the ban does sunset, I will think very hard about getting the barrel threaded, buying a Vortex, bead blasting it, and slapping it on the barrel. Other than that, its staying crowned. Speaking of bead blast, yeah, I could not bare to coat that barrel black. I talked to Wes for close to an hour one day about barrels. He was very informative and while I think he still preffers the Compass Lake true SPR barrel, I had my heart set on the Krieger. As Wes explains it, the Krieger is a heavy barrel. And it is. I have not felt the others, but everyone who held the bare barrel when I got it in stated how heavy it felt. I wonder how much heavier it would feel without the flutes? For me, this is not really a gun that I plan to be moving and cruising around with. And should I need to, its really not all THAT heavy. He was also telling me that at about the time you have to start thinking about when you are going to need to replace anouther match type barrel due to the amount of rounds fired through it, the Krieger will just start warming up. I am told that as you shoot it more and more, it will just keep getting better and better. And finally, the look. I really, really like the Stainless look, but I am not fond of shiney, reflective surfaces. Bead blasting the stainless into a nice, dull, matte, silver was awesome. In addition to all the attributes of this style barrel, it also gives it a lot of character. Nothing has really moved me for a new stock. I am perfectly happy with the A2 thats on there. The only thing I would need to use a cheek rest for is the Dr Optics, and I dont expect to be using it much at all. If the Magpul sniper stock comes out, I will probably get one. Till then its standard. The rifle is not all that heavy. I need to weigh it again with the flip up front on it, but I think it is less than 12 pounds. And yeah, the balance is very nice. No, I will not be getting a forward grip. I have a Dieter grip on another gun and I do love it. However, I dont see myself using one on this gun at all. The PRI tube only has shorter type rails at the 3, 6 and 9 oclock. Aside from the fact I have no desire for one on this gun, there really isnt room for one anyway. No, I have no plans to change the standard Irons at all. I dont think it would detract from it at all, but I will be keeping the irons stock for right now. Davkenrem; no, I am neither in military or law enforcement. However, be that as it may, I dont consider any of my guns to be toys. Like I mentioned above, they are set up to be rugged and dependable, for extreme use and max benefit for a situation I hope never to be in. NESurvival, I guess it all depends on what your definition of Bling is? You imply Bling is anything added to a stock rifle. I strongly disagree. Bling is something needless and unecessary, something without purpose and merit. Something which does nothing to improve the performance of the gun. Quite the contrary, each and everything on this gun enhances its performance in some way shape or form.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 11:19:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 11:34:35 PM EDT by Ellery_Holt]
Originally Posted By M4arc:
Originally Posted By new-arguy: If you ever looked through a scope, in darkness, and used a Surefire M98 unit, or even an M97 unit, you would not ask what use they are. These lights literally turn night into day and can readily light up targets out close to 400 yards. And that is a good relative range for this rifle.
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No, I never looked through a scope in the darkness and used a Surefire M98 or M97. AND I didn't know that they could light up targets up to 400 yards away. That's why I asked the question, to learn. I didn't mean to offend you, I simply didn't know.
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I'm sure he doesn't mean to come across as offended -- maybe he just writes that way occasionally. I give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Phrases like, "shame on you," "if you ever... you wouldn't ask that," and "the advantages went right over your head," are just the way he writes, I suppose.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:55:01 AM EDT
Thanks for the insight Neil. This is a well thought out rifle. Your weight is still fairly low for what you've got. I have a preban Colt match h-bar that weights in slightly over 9 lbs. loaded. With the slight amount of extra weight, recoil should be between nill and none. I'd be extremely careful if you ever intend to thread the muzzle and install a flash suppressor. Doing so 'may' change the harmonics of the barrel. If I was going to let anyone do it, it would be Krieger. KKF would probably do an excellent job too, but I doubt if he has the same tooling as Krieger. Krieger might not even touch it after it leaves the factory. Your flute job probably removed aprox. .25 lbs. from the rifle. What type of barrel break in do you plan to give this barrel? Good choice sticking with .223 if you don't reload. For the lens cap, I'd probably stick that rifle in a Pelican case, and possibly put a lint free scope coat over the scope. I prefer to see over the top of a scope to gain my bearings before focusing on the glass. Personal preference obviously. I hope you have a hell of a vault! One that repells drool. -Steve
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