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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/1/2005 1:42:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 1:43:26 PM EDT by J_Smith]
I previously purchased a 24" bbl DPMS .308 upper here on the board.........well my lower reciever finally showed up at the local FFL today! Man this thing is sweet..........

I still need optics and a bipod though lol.............(and some back up iron sights, two stage trigger, and match ammo........)

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 6:59:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 7:02:02 PM EDT by Matth3wdean]
Wait a minute….that looks familiar!

O ya that is my old upper, just looking at it brings back memories of that sitting in my room. Have a blast


ETA: Tell me how the black Teflon on the Bolt Carrier holds up over time.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:30:21 PM EDT
Now I have a Badger Ordance tac-latch (not pictured), SPR pistol grip, and Magpul rail covers for the SWS rail system - still waiting on optics (on backorder) then I should finally got to fire this gun lol........(back up iron sights eventually - probably use my QD harris bipod from my SPR)

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:23:49 PM EDT
I run a McCormik 3.5# 2-Stage in my DPMS.

Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:42:06 AM EDT
My rifle has a Rock River two stage in it that breaks at about 4lbs. That is a little heavy some would say for a precision rifle but for field use it works pretty well. Definitely like the two stage vs. single stage.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 10:45:55 AM EDT
What optics are you going to use. I have a BAR10 coming tomorrow or next Tue. I'm looking at options.

Link Posted: 8/18/2005 10:50:04 AM EDT
I just got a RRA two stage today that I will put in the rifle - I have a RRA two stage in my SPR type AR15 and am very happy with it.

On optics, I bought a Super Sniper 10x scope - should be here soon - I've heard great things about the scope for use as a rugged long range optic without dumping 800-1000 in a long range Leupold scope. The Super Sniper sells for around $300 or so - I'll leave feedback once I get to use it.......
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 12:54:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2005 12:58:24 PM EDT by Matth3wdean]
Should have looked into IOR.

I run an IOR and for $650 for a 2.5-10x42 ill. it is the best money you can spend on a optic. Dont get trapped that Leupold is the only option, I have used them and don't like the mushey turrets and I think they feel like hunting scopes compared to the IOR, and the IOR weights less, go figure.


ETA: This is my review of my IOR and why I picked it, I am like the 4th or 5th post.

Link Posted: 8/18/2005 2:00:38 PM EDT
Thanks for the info.......I just sold two IOR M2's - good scopes for what they do but I hate how they eye-relief works on them - really annoyed me. Aside from that, they make a good 4x scope with illuminated reticle and BDC for a good price........I havent looked into the variable power IOR scopes. I'll see how the IOR scope works out for me - I need TWO scopes eventually - right now the Super Sniper will do double duty on an SPR and a DPMS .308 until I find out what I like best - that aside, I am still waiting for my optics lol.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 2:24:59 PM EDT
The only comparison between the M2 and the varible power optics is the durability, other than that they are night and day.

Link Posted: 8/19/2005 4:30:45 AM EDT
I have a Super Sniper 16x on my rifle for right now. I felt the 16x was the best compromise between the 10x and 20x versions. A rather knowledgeable sniper instructor I know suggested the 16x as near optimum. We'll see how it works.

For the money I don't see how you can beat the Super Sniper. While the IOR has it's followers there are quite a few guys who are none too happy with their customer service if you need something fixed, though my buddy had good service when his needed warranty work. I don't know what a used IOR costs but at $600 you are getting into used Leupold range if you watch carefully. Everybody else may make good glass but Leupold is the defacto standard, the one to beat.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 4:40:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Will:
Everybody else may make good glass but Leupold is the defacto standard, the one to beat.

I thought that once, before I did any research on optics.

Link Posted: 8/19/2005 5:30:15 AM EDT
As soon as I see FBI's HRT, LA SWAT, the United States Army, DOE Couriers (people who depend on optics with their lives and the lives of others) using IOR I will be inclined to agree with you.

When I see guys to whom cost is no real object who shoot minute groups at 1,000 or more yards with .50 BMG rifles using IOR glass, again I would be inclined to agree with you. I was just at the .50 cal National Shoot in Raton NM, it's only 4 hours away. These guys spend more on glass than some people do on their cars. There were darn few, if any, pieces of IOR glass evident there, I certainly don't recall seeing any.

Until then the people at Beaverton Oregon rule the roost though the folks at Nightforce are pushing pretty hard.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 6:56:47 AM EDT
I don’t think you read my last post correctly....

I did not mention IOR in my last post, I run IOR on my set up because it fits my needs, if you would read my link to the archive you could see why I choose the IOR for my set up. I was commenting on you calling Leupold the standard by which all should be measured...again

In my opinion you die hard Leupold folks who do not give a second nod to any other optic are like people who think you need a 20" barrel to have an "effective" AR....stuck in the stone age!

Link Posted: 8/19/2005 7:06:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 7:10:08 AM EDT by Will]
No, there's lots of good glass out there....NightForce, Unertl, Schmidt & Bender, Kahle, Zeiss, Nikon, Bausch & Lomb...... Many of my hunting guns wear Burris glass, I find it a pretty good value with good support and plenty of options. Get's the job done for me. Heck, on my DPMS LR I am using a Super Sniper, for now anyway and it will do what I need.

But, for range of product, cost, quality, serviceability and proven track record it's going to be tough to beat Leupold.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 6:29:05 PM EDT
I wish I hadn't clicked on this link, I thought the fever was in remission...

Will, I'll give you $975 for yours right now
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 8:46:22 PM EDT

4x16x56 Millette...

This one reaches out and touches anything it wants to..

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:15:56 AM EDT
Updated with current pic........I just ordered Leupold QRW High rings - I had ordered medium sized rings but they are a little too low for my setup.......The gun now has an RRA 2 stage trigger in it - plan on shooting it this coming Saturday hopefully.......

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:30:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Will:
I have a Super Sniper 16x on my rifle for right now. I felt the 16x was the best compromise between the 10x and 20x versions. A rather knowledgeable sniper instructor I know suggested the 16x as near optimum. We'll see how it works.

No offense Will, but how do you figure that a 16x scope would be "near optimum" for anything other than bench rest type shooting? I would immediately disregard any further advice from that instructor. Sniping(not that I claim to be a sniper or anything - I'm just a shooting enthusiast like most here) is generally associated with shooting at targets(often moving) at widely varying distances. At 100 yards, the field of view is less than 7 feet with that scope. Now if I were to extrapolate FOV for shorter distances - say 65yds(cited by some as the average police sniper shot), FOV is only 4.55 feet! Now say you are on target and and your target suddenly moves 2 steps - you are almost sure to lose him. In comparison with a 3-9x at 3 power, you have almost 22 feet of FOV. It's a lot easier to hit a target that you can see. Also, it is almost impossible to hold steady with such high magnification at shorter distances. If you are only shooting at stationary targets from a rest or sand bags at set(long) distances, 16x will work fine. If you add any variables at all, you would be much better served with something much lower and variable in power.

P.S. sorry J_smith - didn't mean to hijack your thread
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 12:34:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 12:39:15 PM EDT by Will]
The instructor was Steve Suttles. To put things in context we were discussing the best power for a fixed scope. Variables were left out of the discussion. Problem with variables in the field is that you can only mill at the lowest power- at least with American first plane optics, so you are always cranking them up and down. For that reason I wanted a fixed scope and laid out the choices, 16x was his reply.

If Steve's name doesn't ring a bell do a Google search-USMC, Sniper, Steve Suttles, Vietnam. It's usually said in the same breath as Chuck Mawhinny and Carlos Hathcock. Mr. Suttles had over 60 confirmed kills during his time in the field as a USMC sniper including the longest shot recorded in the Vietnam conflict with a bolt rifle-1,250 yards.

I will rely on his judgement, BTDT.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 2:39:24 PM EDT
Well, he is a guy that would certainly know more about the subject than I would. Just out of curiosity though, have you ever fired at a moving target inside of 100yds with your set-up?

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 2:43:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By J_Smith:
Updated with current pic........I just ordered Leupold QRW High rings - I had ordered medium sized rings but they are a little too low for my setup.......The gun now has an RRA 2 stage trigger in it - plan on shooting it this coming Saturday hopefully.......


That is a sweet set up, J_Smith

Looking forward to the Battle Damage Assessment!

(Range report just doesnt seem to do it justice)
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:58:28 PM EDT
Won't be selling my rifle anytime soon! I think I stole it really. I do think that the secret is about out on how well these guns shoot and demand and price will rise accordingly. There are just too many articles on them-Gun Test this month, they were getting 1/2 MOA groups, the guys over at Gunblast did a test couple months ago, they got 3/4 MOA with Remington factory hunting ammo! Many other publications including American Rifleman have done write ups. These are great rifles.

I haven't even gotten my Super Sniper sighted in yet! Just got the rifle and put scope on this last week. I will be going to a course next month though and that will be the real trial of the combination though we will not be shooting moving targets. Perhaps I will take it hog hunting and see how that works. I will agree that when Steve said that I was a little surprised. I figured he would say 10X but his rational was that the sniper rifle is a dedicated system, it's not for CQB (that's what spotters are for!) and the extra magnification was important at the longer distances and in poor light. I will ask him next month about variable vs. fixed but I think he liked simpler field gear as a rule.

J-Smith, when's the blasting part of this report? Hope yours shoots as good as mine and I'm sure it will!
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:17:38 PM EDT
You will all fear my new LR308....

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:43:16 PM EDT
I was hoping I was the only guy on this board that was reading reading Gun Tests... It was a nice write up.

The fever burns...
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:15:25 AM EDT
J_Smith, what kind of railed forend is that?

I just disassembled my upper to yank the barrel off...gonna send it out to Compass Lake to be cut down to 20"...while I've got it apart, it might be a good time to swap out that tube for a railed forend.

I know the rifle uses a different barrel nut, so I'll assume standard AR stuff won't work. So, did you get that tube from DPMS?
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:15:16 PM EDT
I will have to part ways with you on this one I served as an armorer at my last duty station and now own/operate a small custom gun shop that caters to LE and Mil community. I as most shops do started with the Leupold line and had some good sales but there was this little known company called IOR I had read about and it had good reviews. I got 2 scopes from them to try and was impressed by there ruggedness. They were by no means "Preety" but most of my customers beat the crap out of there equipment anyway so they dont care about looks. What we did notice also was the clarity of the glass there was nothing out there in the price range that I had tried so far that came close. That was several years ago and IOR has come along way since then they have adapted to the US market with features like side focus, etched glass, fully illuminated reticles and multi coating of there optics. they also have alot of elevation built in as much as 80 MOA. As for the guys in service using the "best"I dont know if you were in service or not but I can tell you at least in the Army the "best" is rarely got anything to do with why they purchase what they do. Case in point they used Lupy M3 scopes on there SASR 50`s and the reticles came loose. (according to an army times article on post invasion feedback to the material command) I have never heard of any IOR scopes suffering reticle failure. As for Le customers I work alot with the NCHP and they purchased what they have based on what an ex military CO told them they should buy, not what they actually tested. The got Leupolds. They now reside on the vault shelf they hate them. I know for a fact that there has been upwards of $20,000 to $30,000 in IOR glass sold to families and service members in the WOT paid for with their funds And I know Valentine at IOR has Donated to the service another $40,000 in glass to the services. So to say that the military and Le communities don`t use them is not correct. Leupold is a decent glass but as good as IOR not in my experience.
I am not trying to start an argument or anything I just do not agree with your assesment of IOR.


Keith "Red" Plemons
USAR "Special Weapons" RET
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