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Posted: 4/14/2008 5:48:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2008 9:00:04 PM EDT by jerz_subbie]
So I've had my AR for a little less than a year and finally took it out to 300yds this evening.
Rifle: RRA Entry Tactical, quad rail, vfg, Burris FF-II 3-9x40 w/BDC, zeroed at 50yds
Ammo: Ultramax 55gr fmj and Federal 223B 55gr fmjbt
Targets: small 3" Shoot-n-C on 8.5x11
I couldn't actually measure the groups since I didnt have a tape measure/ruler with me but they're nothing spectacular.
The BDC reticle made it very easy! 1st line = 300yds.
ETA: I was shooting from a bench.

Long walk


First 3 shot group with Ultramax


Second grouping, 5 shot group Fed 223B

Disclaimer: I am far from a great shot, but thats why I try to get to the range as much as possible

ETA: Shot again today, pics are on pg 2! - 4/16
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 5:52:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 5:54:59 PM EDT
There is nothing wrong with that You were using a scope, try irons.


Also what position were you shooting from?

bench you could do better focus on breathing and trigger pull, however if that is from prone or sitting you are not that bad a shot.
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 5:58:55 PM EDT
And so it begins....


That bull gets pretty f*cking small at 300 doesnt it?

So how do you like your RRA's? I've got an Entry Tact. as well and love it. Shoots quite well with quality ammo up to 69 gr.
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 6:11:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2008 6:13:27 PM EDT by jerz_subbie]
Irons at 300yds would be like "pin the tail on the donkey," I have a tough enough time with irons at 100yds! lol <--reason I went with magnified optics. I'm able to keep 5 shots on a playing card at 100yds which I think is pretty decent.

ahelplessnun:
yes it sure does get small out there at 300! I love my RRA as well. I want to try some different weight bullets 62gr & 69gr soon. I think i'll be living on the 300 range for a little while now, i've got to get better
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 6:15:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:
minute of dead


+1.

-X  
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 6:16:14 PM EDT
Get yourself a box of Blackhills SMK's and focus on the fundamentals...


Link Posted: 4/14/2008 6:40:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2008 6:42:03 PM EDT by FZ1Steve]
It's jut my opinion and my experience but I think the stock trigger is the major problem in getting a smaller group. When I went to a Chip McCormick trigger my groups shrank to dime size from 1.5 to 2.0 inches at 110 yards. You can have a real tack driver upper and the stock trigger group will  just not let you get the most out of your setup. Everything else being equal. This is 110yards with a bi-pod with ammo the rilfe likes, no wind, pretty day, pretty much as good as it gets. Tho the flyers bother me. Then again my eyes are 52 years old.


Two flyers and I still missed the dime
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 6:42:04 PM EDT
Shooting at distance is fun stuff. Ammo will make a big difference though... here's a good example. Both targets were shot at 200 yards from a bench rapid fire (about one round a second). The target on the left was shot with handloaded 55 gr Nosler ballistic tips. The target on the right was shot with Wolf. Everything else was the same.

Link Posted: 4/14/2008 7:11:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FZ1Steve:
It's jut my opinion and my experience but I think the stock trigger is the major problem in getting a smaller group.

I agree 100%, I can feel that the rather rough and heavy trigger pull is definitely affecting my accuracy. I'm trying to decide whether to swap it for a Bushmaster 2stg which I tried on another rifle and loved it or to have RRA 2 stg worked on by a smith.
btw, Very nice group!

Shooting at distance is fun for sure. I have only tried 55gr ammo so far and as expected the most expensive ($.80/rd) is what my rifle likes best.
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 8:06:42 PM EDT
Thanks,
No need to do all that. You can get a Timmy or Chip McCormic drop in trigger module that you can install in about two minutes. I have a single stage that is probably 4.5 pounds  (guessing), crisp, no take up, good for target work and I can take it to the field without worrying about having a ND due to a too light trigger.
The other triggers that are adjustable seem to give some people trouble, doubles and such until they get them worked out. The trigger modules are preset, just drop them in.
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 8:16:03 PM EDT
I still wouldnt want to be in your sights at 300yds................so, you did good. Practice.
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 1:28:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/15/2008 1:28:42 AM EDT by nicholsmf]

Originally Posted By bigbore:
minute of dead


And when it counts, that's all that matters

Keep practicing
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 6:59:55 AM EDT
And I forgot to add that you did very well, 300yrds is reaching out there. Lots of things come into play, wind, temp, light, coriolis effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect)
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 7:44:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FZ1Steve:
And I forgot to add that you did very well, 300yrds is reaching out there. Lots of things come into play, wind, temp, light, coriolis effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect)


Yeah, okay Marky Mark.
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 7:47:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/15/2008 7:49:01 AM EDT by COSteve]

Originally Posted By FZ1Steve:
And I forgot to add that you did very well, 300yrds is reaching out there. Lots of things come into play, wind, temp, light, coriolis effect

I'd love to meet a shooter who is so accurate that he/she has to worry about the Coriolis Effect!  Even shooting at 1,000yds the deflection caused by the rotation of the earth would be measured in 1,000/arc seconds.
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 7:50:42 AM EDT
thats fantastic shooting!

I thought the thread was going elsewhere when I read the title.

I was thinking my first time was at CQB distance.

Link Posted: 4/15/2008 9:13:03 AM EDT
Not bad at all, as mentioned above "minute of dead"

Try some Blackhills Matchking, expensive for good reason, to see what you can do...Next, buy a 2 stage trigger to really bring out your best.....  
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 9:49:39 AM EDT
Your zero was very good too.  Did you just use a 25 yard zero or did you make corrections at 300?

Good shooting Quigley.
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 10:17:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Irons at 300yds would be like "pin the tail on the donkey,"]


That about sums it up for me lol I could hit that ass open sights but don't expect any form of grouping

Anyhow, I'm not a comp shooter but don't they use a larger size target than what he's using?
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 10:33:13 AM EDT
Other than your barrel, I cant think of a single thing that would markedly improve your accuracy more than a good match trigger.

I like Adco's tuned RRA triggers. I have 4 of them; they have all been flawless and greatly improved my groups.
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 10:38:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I thought the thread was going elsewhere when I read the title.

I was thinking my first time was at CQB distance.


BREECH!
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 9:44:11 PM EDT
In response to the above comments:
I'm using a 50yd zero and didn't have to make any adjustments.
I have Fed 223B which is $17-$19/box! It's more me than my rifle or ammo.
I have a stock RRA 2 stage trigger but it could use some work for sure (or replaced by a drop-in)
Yes the targets I was using are very small compared to competition. I use them on 100yds but on a whim decided to try my luck at 300.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 12:25:40 PM EDT
hello;

based on what happen to me.  never could tell if ammo was any good because of a poor trigger.  got the trigger re-wroked by bill sprinfield.  now have a good trigger.  

with a good trigger, a good scope and taking the time to work up good reloads (55gr. hornady/25.5 h335) able to shoot 1/2" to 3/4" groups (100yds).  55fmj bt = 1/2".  55gr. sp = 3/4".  not a one time deal, able to shoot groups all the time.  the secret is the trigger, then finding good ammo (time and $).

btw, don't kid yourself, good glass (scope) helps.

rp
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 1:46:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
In response to the above comments:
I'm using a 50yd zero and didn't have to make any adjustments.
I have Fed 223B which is $17-$19/box! It's more me than my rifle or ammo.
I have a stock RRA 2 stage trigger but it could use some work for sure (or replaced by a drop-in)
Yes the targets I was using are very small compared to competition. I use them on 100yds but on a whim decided to try my luck at 300.


Looks like you did pretty good - Look at it like you whould have most likely killed what you were shooting at
Now try 500 meters
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 5:09:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
In response to the above comments:
I'm using a 50yd zero and didn't have to make any adjustments.
I have Fed 223B which is $17-$19/box! It's more me than my rifle or ammo.
I have a stock RRA 2 stage trigger but it could use some work for sure (or replaced by a drop-in)
Yes the targets I was using are very small compared to competition. I use them on 100yds but on a whim decided to try my luck at 300.


50 yard zero ha.   That's interesting.  If I'm not mistaken, mine usually are close to dead on at 200 when I use my 60 yard zero.  Well, either way, good shooting.  As someone said, I wouldn't want you to be shooting at me at that distance!!!!!!  
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 5:19:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2008 5:23:26 PM EDT by jerz_subbie]

Originally Posted By BossHoss:
Looks like you did pretty good - Look at it like you whould have most likely killed what you were shooting at
Now try 500 meters

That's what I figure, so i'm pleased but not satisfied, hence the reason I went to the range today. I wish I had access to a longer range, 300yds max at my club

So today was a very nice day here in NJ so it would've been a crime not to go to the range!
by the time i made it to the range, around 5:30, it was 66 degrees with a light head wind. Targets this time were my usual, 4" black "midway pistol target" on 8.5x11.
I tried adjusting my hold to compensate for the rough trigger break and i'd say it helped.

1st/warm up group: 5 shots, 7 9/16" grouping


2nd/last group: 7 shots, 6" exactly (that's 2 MOA correct?)
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 5:26:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2008 7:57:13 PM EDT by jerz_subbie]
.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:57:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JJREA:

Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
In response to the above comments:
I'm using a 50yd zero and didn't have to make any adjustments.
I have Fed 223B which is $17-$19/box! It's more me than my rifle or ammo.
I have a stock RRA 2 stage trigger but it could use some work for sure (or replaced by a drop-in)
Yes the targets I was using are very small compared to competition. I use them on 100yds but on a whim decided to try my luck at 300.


50 yard zero ha.   That's interesting.  If I'm not mistaken, mine usually are close to dead on at 200 when I use my 60 yard zero.  Well, either way, good shooting.  As someone said, I wouldn't want you to be shooting at me at that distance!!!!!!  

I'm sorry i guess i should have clearer in my response; I'm zeroed at 50yds for a rather flat trajectory out to 200. Aside from using the BDC reticle on my scope I did not have to make any windage/elevation adjustments.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 9:21:41 PM EDT
As long as you're minute of pie plate at 300, you're doing fine.  My RRA will print 1" at 100yds, but it's my entry weapon and realistically will print center mass out to 300 which is all that really matters.  

I've gotten 1.5" groups with my Savage at 300, but 7.62 at 300 is much different.  
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 7:24:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:

Originally Posted By JJREA:

Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
In response to the above comments:
I'm using a 50yd zero and didn't have to make any adjustments.
I have Fed 223B which is $17-$19/box! It's more me than my rifle or ammo.
I have a stock RRA 2 stage trigger but it could use some work for sure (or replaced by a drop-in)
Yes the targets I was using are very small compared to competition. I use them on 100yds but on a whim decided to try my luck at 300.


50 yard zero ha.   That's interesting.  If I'm not mistaken, mine usually are close to dead on at 200 when I use my 60 yard zero.  Well, either way, good shooting.  As someone said, I wouldn't want you to be shooting at me at that distance!!!!!!  

I'm sorry i guess i should have clearer in my response; I'm zeroed at 50yds for a rather flat trajectory out to 200. Aside from using the BDC reticle on my scope I did not have to make any windage/elevation adjustments.



AAAahhh, that's where the discrepancy came.  I thought I was going nuts.  What kind of scope are you using?
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 7:58:07 AM EDT
RE irons: they are just back-up or emergency sights. thats all.  I would zero them, and then forget about them.

Sure - with enough practice and thousands of rounds downrange, a person can do AMAZING things with irons - maybe even equal to a newbie optics shooter like our OP.

But, why bother?  The day of the irons is over. They've been relegated to backup duty where they belong.

You HP shooters can still fiddle with your irons if you want. You could also try shooting black-powder replica guns if you want. I'm sticking with my optic-sighted AR like the OP's set up.
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 9:30:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Adirondack47:
Other than your barrel, I cant think of a single thing that would markedly improve your accuracy more than a good match trigger.

I like Adco's tuned RRA triggers. I have 4 of them; they have all been flawless and greatly improved my groups.


Adco tunes RRA triggers?  Hmmmmm.... interesting.  I really like the RRA two stage triggers.  
They are vastly better than the stock trigger.

How much better is the tuned RRA trigger than the un-tuned RRA trigger?

Link Posted: 4/19/2008 10:07:17 PM EDT
with my colt 20" HBAR and black hills 69gr ammo I can get 3-4" at 300 yards. try better ammo and see what you can do.

you might be pleasently suprised.
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