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Posted: 8/8/2007 9:10:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2007 6:59:39 AM EDT by Trumpet]
Alright,
So if you've seen my other posts, you can tell I'm a retro-noob. Anyway, I'd like a XM177E2 (non-NFA) type upper. BUT I'm kind of ...well...anal, and I prefer new (or as new as possible) parts. This makes things like upper receivers a problem. Now, does anyone have a pic of a XM177 clone with a shell deflector on the upper? Reason I ask is because the only new A1 uppers I can find will all have the shell deflector and I don't want to build something only to find it looks retawded.

The only "proper" uppers (Colt) I found are at SARCO, but I'm not too keen on buying something sight unseen.

SO, do I do a franken-XM177E2 or go slickside and build up a GAU clone? Now in all honesty, I never "needed" the forward assist, but I do like the idea of it. Anyone with a GAU or any other slickside find you acutally need a FA?

Here are my choices...

Buy a Colt 723 upper and have barrel cut and install fake moderator (45 Bravo)

Buy a CMMG lightweight 16" CAR and have them cut it down and install fake (45Bravo) moderator

Have a "proper" one built from cobbled together used parts (sight unseen SARCO upper)

or go for the GAU build using a new Fulton Armory slickside upper (although the lack of a forward assist makes me nervous).

thanks so much to uxb and others who have helped me here!

Rich
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 9:44:25 AM EDT
Mine was built out of parts. I did not destroy another Colt in the process of doing it and it looks good. I used a Bushmaster barrel of a close to proper contour, an A1 upper off the EE and a Colt buttstock. Parts may take a while to find but in the end it will be how you want it and not a compromise of any sort.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 11:51:05 AM EDT
Thanks a lot.

I really don't mind the deflector at all. And you wouldn't think that a small thing like a bayo lug would make much of a difference, but the rifle looks so much better now that I removed it.

I'll take some more pics once the barrel gets reworked.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 12:09:23 PM EDT
I'd pass on cutting the 723 barrel.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 9:55:18 PM EDT
I built a slickside A1 upper from sarco parts, and it works fine. It didnt nearly cost what new parts would have. YMMV.
Link Posted: 8/9/2007 1:41:17 PM EDT
ALRIGHT!!!

Decision is made. I'm doing a build up from parts. Main reason being because I found one (or two ) excellent condition uppers to use!

Now...barrels. Here's what I was thinking. Since I like "new"-ish parts and want chrome lined 1:7 I was going to order a CMMG 16" Lightweight CAR Barrel (Delta Ring, No Sling Loop and Rivet, Gas Tube and Roll Pin, No Flash Hider, No Dura Coat, Standard Front Sight Base, Factory remommended, CAR Handguard-Single Heat Shield, 1/7 Twist) for $289 and then have it cut down and add 45Bravo's XM177 moderator and grenade ring.

Would this work? Does the gas port need to be opened up for reliability?

Thanks fellers!

Rich
Link Posted: 8/9/2007 1:51:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
ALRIGHT!!!

Decision is made. I'm doing a build up from parts. Main reason being because I found one (or two ) excellent condition uppers to use!

Now...barrels. Here's what I was thinking. Since I like "new"-ish parts and want chrome lined 1:7 I was going to order a CMMG 16" Lightweight CAR Barrel (Delta Ring, No Sling Loop and Rivet, Gas Tube and Roll Pin, No Flash Hider, No Dura Coat, Standard Front Sight Base, Factory remommended, CAR Handguard-Single Heat Shield, 1/7 Twist) for $289 and then have it cut down and add 45Bravo's XM177 moderator and grenade ring.

Would this work? Does the gas port need to be opened up for reliability?

Thanks fellers!

Rich



I would get a bushmaster lightweight barrel and have it cut down. It would be cheaper.
Link Posted: 8/9/2007 2:30:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
ALRIGHT!!!

Decision is made. I'm doing a build up from parts. Main reason being because I found one (or two ) excellent condition uppers to use!

Now...barrels. Here's what I was thinking. Since I like "new"-ish parts and want chrome lined 1:7 I was going to order a CMMG 16" Lightweight CAR Barrel (Delta Ring, No Sling Loop and Rivet, Gas Tube and Roll Pin, No Flash Hider, No Dura Coat, Standard Front Sight Base, Factory remommended, CAR Handguard-Single Heat Shield, 1/7 Twist) for $289 and then have it cut down and add 45Bravo's XM177 moderator and grenade ring.

Would this work? Does the gas port need to be opened up for reliability?

Thanks fellers!

Rich



I would get a bushmaster lightweight barrel and have it cut down. It would be cheaper.


Aren't they 1:9 only?
Link Posted: 8/9/2007 5:44:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
ALRIGHT!!!

Decision is made. I'm doing a build up from parts. Main reason being because I found one (or two ) excellent condition uppers to use!

Now...barrels. Here's what I was thinking. Since I like "new"-ish parts and want chrome lined 1:7 I was going to order a CMMG 16" Lightweight CAR Barrel (Delta Ring, No Sling Loop and Rivet, Gas Tube and Roll Pin, No Flash Hider, No Dura Coat, Standard Front Sight Base, Factory remommended, CAR Handguard-Single Heat Shield, 1/7 Twist) for $289 and then have it cut down and add 45Bravo's XM177 moderator and grenade ring.

Would this work? Does the gas port need to be opened up for reliability?

Thanks fellers!

Rich



I would get a bushmaster lightweight barrel and have it cut down. It would be cheaper.


+1. That's what I did for my XM clone.
Link Posted: 8/9/2007 5:48:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2007 5:51:08 PM EDT by Black-Tiger]
I figure you can use a Colt Commando upper, the one with the lightweight 11.5 inch barrel, add a 4.5 inch "fake" moderator and the grenade ring, perm-attach it and you should be good to go; no need for the NFA stuff, since the 11.5 barrel, plus a perm-attached 4.5 moderator should put you on the 16 in. range and you should be legal.
Link Posted: 8/9/2007 6:29:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2007 6:30:11 PM EDT by DM1975]

Originally Posted By Black-Tiger:
I figure you can use a Colt Commando upper, the one with the lightweight 11.5 inch barrel, add a 4.5 inch "fake" moderator and the grenade ring, perm-attach it and you should be good to go; no need for the NFA stuff, since the 11.5 barrel, plus a perm-attached 4.5 moderator should put you on the 16 in. range and you should be legal.


Wrong, you have to take into account the thread overlap. Also, I would suggest useing a Bushmaster as well. 1-9 is no big deal unless you just want a 1-7 barrel. The originals were 1-12 anyways.
Link Posted: 8/9/2007 9:44:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2007 9:46:30 PM EDT by Black-Tiger]

Originally Posted By DM1975:

Originally Posted By Black-Tiger:
I figure you can use a Colt Commando upper, the one with the lightweight 11.5 inch barrel, add a 4.5 inch "fake" moderator and the grenade ring, perm-attach it and you should be good to go; no need for the NFA stuff, since the 11.5 barrel, plus a perm-attached 4.5 moderator should put you on the 16 in. range and you should be legal.


Wrong, you have to take into account the thread overlap. Also, I would suggest useing a Bushmaster as well. 1-9 is no big deal unless you just want a 1-7 barrel. The originals were 1-12 anyways.


Hmmm, I was pondering the rifling issue; I could buy a BM superlight 16 inch barrel and have AR15barrels cut it down to size (12 in.), open the port holes for proper function, rethread in the proper pitch and add the grenade ring with the peel washer and perm-attach the moderator. Does that sound logical?
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 3:58:13 AM EDT
That is about the same thing that I had done to mine. I cant recall the actual barrel length off hand though.
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 4:42:39 AM EDT
My barrel as shipped was 12 3/8" and with a grenade ring and bushy 4.5" moderator installed resulted in a lenght of 16.5 inches. So...having the barrel measure 12" overall at the end of the muzzle should get you to 16.1".

I started with a Fulton slick upper but switched to a like new M-16A1 upper when I found one and then used the slick upper on a 654 clone. Both worked great.

In my experience there is no need for the forward assist unless you are in very dirty/sandy conditions. Once broken in, you can still close the bolt quietly without a forward assist.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 6:59:00 AM EDT
OK,
So I have en route...
1) "excellent" condition M16A1 upper
2) Bushmaster superlight 1:7 carbine barrel
3) 45Bravo fake moderator and grenade ring

Now, I was wondering how to finish it when it's all built. If the anodizing on the receiver is in good shape but doesn't match the barrel (which I assume will be reparked after having the fake moderator mounted) can it be parked? Or will some sort of Norrell's type of finish do (assuming the anodizing is in good shape)? I'm not looking for a Colt Grey, I'm just looking for standard black since it's going on top of my Ameetec lower. If it needs to be reanodized (how do I determine that anyway?), who to do it, how much does it typically cost, etc?

Also, for the grenade ring, how does the barrel get machined and how is it mounted?
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 8:03:38 AM EDT
I would assume that if going the Bushmaster lightweight route, that one would opt for the post-ban version. That way there is no bayonet lug to cut off. Just shorten the barrel and thread for the FL. I would think this would be the way to go and the least expensive.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 10:14:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2007 10:14:40 AM EDT by Bones357]

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
If the anodizing on the receiver is in good shape but doesn't match the barrel (which I assume will be reparked after having the fake moderator mounted) can it be parked?


If you're sending the barrel to ar15barrels for the work, be advised that a repark is not included in cutting a barrel and having a FH permanently attached. That is an extra service you must pay for and it adds 1-2 months to the turnaround time (according to Randall's forum).
Link Posted: 8/13/2007 12:17:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Also, for the grenade ring, how does the barrel get machined and how is it mounted?


The barrel would be machined much like a typical barrel, the thread pitch would be standard (1/2x28 I think). Once that's taken care of, you place a lock washer, then the grenade ring and then the moderator; the lockwasher would be covered by the grenade ring once the whole thing's assembled.



This is how the upper should look like:



Closeup of the moderator shows the lock washer neatly tucked into the recess of the grenade ring (this is for both the GAU-5 and the XM177E2)

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=296919
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