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Posted: 10/1/2005 5:30:59 PM EDT
This is really my first posting since getting email back up and running due to the Katrina storm. Guys, unless you see it first hand the damage is as close to an atom bomb as you are going to get. There thousands of places that are leveled to the slab, cars and boats turned to rubble.

I took all of my tools with me (AR's and handguns) and I am glad I did. I had 2500 rounds of .223 and 500 rounds of 9/40/45. I am gald I did because I came back to a police state, no ammo sales, no gun sales and no liquor sales in my very gun friendly state of Louisiana.

No power, no water, no toilets and worst of all no moon. Pitch black at night for 10 days. I live in a very upper middle class neighbor-hood and for the first time in a long time, I was up at night, all night because there were many undeseriables on the road and lurking around.

We snuck back into the state the night of the storm from Mississippi and I'll be damed if there was not a car load of people coming out of my subdivision at midnight that did not belong there.

I learned one good lesson for these situations: My main gun near my mattress on the living room floor was a simple RRA CAR A4, 6 position stock-folded all of the way and my EOTech. I wish I had a Surefire on the forearm, there is one now.

On one end of the house I had a RRA 16" M/L, DD Rail and Aimpoint and on the other end I had two Sigs, 228 and 225. My wife kept my RRA Limited Match 1911 on the fridge, she can use it real well.

Since I had the generator working after a few days, and the garage door was open, I kept my Sig 229 in my tool box. You would not believe the people riding around and walking up to you from the street asking to cut trees. Most of them friendly and some I seem before, but some I stopped at the street and said thanks but no thanks.

I loaned a number of my shotguns to friends "who felt they never needed a gun", they called my and said "do you mind if I borrow a ....."

This has been a life changing experience for me, we are OK and will live my the motto: KISS.

'Bronc

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 5:38:13 PM EDT
Thanks for sharing.

Was your house broken into while you were away?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 5:44:34 PM EDT
I carry extra gear and weapons for those people who lose, leave behind, or plain out don't have it.

Glad everything is going decent for you.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 5:49:28 PM EDT
Glad you're OK.

Hope everything turns out alright.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 5:50:55 PM EDT
Omar, Thanks for asking

No my house was not broken into, but some of the people I know did lose stuff to the scum floating around. TV's, stereo's and the like.

One other downside, there are a lot of people taking advantage of those in a tight spot. One such Ace hardware store near me was selling the generator I purchased at Home Depot for $650 for a scum thief dirt bag price of $2100. I will never walk into that store again.

'Bronc
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:34:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 6:51:58 PM EDT by glock23carry]


One other downside, there are a lot of people taking advantage of those in a tight spot. One such Ace hardware store near me was selling the generator I purchased at Home Depot for $650 for a scum thief dirt bag price of $2100. I will never walk into that store again.



I was on board until you said that. Remember, the best cure for high prices is high prices. The market will correct the imbalance shortly.

You have to remember there are no new generators being shipped in weekly like before the storm. They are not thieves, they are just reflecting the value of the item. "Price fixing" laws show a distinct lack of understanding of economics.

G
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:36:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:11:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 7:12:25 PM EDT by Stickman]

Originally Posted By glock23carry:


You have to remember there are no new generators being shipped in weekly like before the storm. They are not thieves, they are just reflecting the value of the item. "Price fixing" laws show a distinct lack of understanding of economics.

G





Spoken like a man sitting in the comfort of his own home who has never been in a similar situation...
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:24:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 7:25:49 PM EDT by glock23carry]

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By glock23carry:


You have to remember there are no new generators being shipped in weekly like before the storm. They are not thieves, they are just reflecting the value of the item. "Price fixing" laws show a distinct lack of understanding of economics.

G





Spoken like a man sitting in the comfort of his own home who has never been in a similar situation...



You are correct that I am. However I am correct that "price gouging" is a figment of people's imaginations.

Things cost what they cost, your desire for them to be cheaper is not relevant in a free market.

G

PS - I have been through hurricanes and I have spent time without power and water and with trees on top of roads and houses, by the way.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:32:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By glock23carry:


One other downside, there are a lot of people taking advantage of those in a tight spot. One such Ace hardware store near me was selling the generator I purchased at Home Depot for $650 for a scum thief dirt bag price of $2100. I will never walk into that store again.



I was on board until you said that. Remember, the best cure for high prices is high prices. The market will correct the imbalance shortly.

You have to remember there are no new generators being shipped in weekly like before the storm. They are not thieves, they are just reflecting the value of the item. "Price fixing" laws show a distinct lack of understanding of economics.

G



And they should remember that blatant price gouging will result in losing customers - permanently.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:37:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 7:39:47 PM EDT by pun]
To glock23carry Free market or not,putting profit before people is just shitty,especially since he probably knows the guy and patronizes the store.Even though I dont know you say,if we are fighting side by side and you need a loaded mag cause your out of ammo..id give you a loaded mag for our common survival as well as your own.I wouldnt tell you...$50 bucks and you can have a reload.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 8:09:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 8:16:24 PM EDT by edwin247]
Bronc,

I too was affected by the hurricane. My family and I evacuated to Monroe, LA along with my Colt LE6920 and three handguns. I offered two of my hand guns to two guys who were staying with us in a vacant house in Monroe. We had five families (16 people) living in a vacant house that was loaned to us by a relative. The first week we were without much news or communication so we did not know anything about our home. We did here about the nightmare stories when we could get 870am on the radio (at night) and when we went to our relatives house for 30mins of news. We finally got cable connected after about 1 1/2weeks so we could get in touch via internet with people/customers, and we finally got the news.

It was very hard to sit around not knowing if you house was flooded/destroyed/looted/or other. Unfortunately I didn't sneak in, as I had too many people worried about my safety so I wasn't let out. I wasn't prepared to staying home with no electricity, food or water. So I held back until they let us "look at our homes" after labor day.

I went in and checked out my home, my mother's home, and my office. We were very fortunate when compared to others homes. I just got shingle, siding damage, and a little water that blew in from under my front door. My mother's house got enough water to flood three rooms, and my office faired without structural damage, just a little water settling in low areas due to leaky roof.

When I returned for my brief look at our property, I had my Sig P229 and my LE6920 with me. I left Monroe about 10:45pm so I would get to Jefferson Parish a little before 6:00am as I thought I would be waiting in a line to get in, but there were no road blocks. I arrived on Hwy 90 about 4:30 am with a pitch black sky. I drove down hwy 90 to Lapalco without seeing any Cops. I made it almost all the way home and about 4 cop cars passed me on the opposite side of the road, and sure enough they made a quick U-turn, and pulled me over. I was asked to "step out of the car," I told them I had a pistol and a rifle in the car, and they looked for them in the car. They were giving me a hard time... ... I told them that I live right around the corner, and that I was expecting to be stopped by police at a blockade, but I never saw any cops. I kept driving as I didn't want to stop on side the road and wait for 6:00am, as I was afraid to be mugged on the side of the road. Well most of the cops had ARs,and the one who was frisking and searching my car, pulled out my AR and unloaded it, and was looking at it. He started giving me a hard time be cause I had a LE model (Again some cops don't even know the laws of the land). I had to explain to him that the ban was over and they were available for sales to civies. I told him to go to ATF.gov for more information. He asked if I could show proof of the purchase, and I told him maybe at my house I could find a receipt. He was a little pissed that I had a Colt, and it was a LE version to boot.

Well they finally let me go, and I drove home. It was still pitch black, and decided to wait in my driveway in my car until I had some daylight, as all I had was a Mag light (no light on the AR either). I didn't want to enter my home and find squatters in my house with a mag light in one hand and a AR in the other. I did take a quick look around my house to see if I noticed any major damage (or people) before resting in my car for an hour.

Dawn came, and I entered my house. I was lucky no one entered my house (I guess they had better places to loot and burn, like Oakwood Mall). My worries about my firearms that I left behind were releaved as my RRA Varminter, few shotguns, Mini-14, and a Styer SPP were all where I left them. I was pertty worried that I would come home to my possessions ran-sacked. I was lucky and I am greatful. I couldn't take everything with me.

Well we started patching and rebuilding over the last two weeks, and we will recover fine. My mother's house has the most damage as trying to remove drywall on top of drywall on top of paneling in a porch that was converted to a Den is a pain in the ass, but it is gutted now and bleached down. We just need to rebuild now.

I definately was a wierd feeling seeing all the destruction. TV just doesn't do the destruction justice. You really need your eyes to get a real perspective on the destruction.... ....trees down, electric poles, homes smashed, fences down --- everywhere you look. We were fortunate as we were on the westbank of the Mississippi River and the levees and major flooding occured on the eastbank of the river.

I hope everyone else that was effected by the hurricane can rebuild and get their lives back in order as soon as possible.

And PLEASE if your a COP, make sure you tell your fellow officers that the Ban is over!!!
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 10:34:35 PM EDT
LOL look at glock23carry's avatar!

His opinions evidently are as reptillian as C. Montgomery Burns'!
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 11:04:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 11:11:25 PM EDT by HarrySacz]

Originally Posted By glock23carry:


One other downside, there are a lot of people taking advantage of those in a tight spot. One such Ace hardware store near me was selling the generator I purchased at Home Depot for $650 for a scum thief dirt bag price of $2100. I will never walk into that store again.



I was on board until you said that. Remember, the best cure for high prices is high prices. The market will correct the imbalance shortly.

You have to remember there are no new generators being shipped in weekly like before the storm. They are not thieves, they are just reflecting the value of the item. "Price fixing" laws show a distinct lack of understanding of economics.

G




What ever happened to helping your fellow man, he still would have made profit, that is not the items current value,that is some jackass taking advantage and IMO is no better than our infamous looter. To hell with that guy.He should have been selling them at COST. What a POS
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 11:15:47 PM EDT
so true my friend

when there's only 1 generator left and 100 people that want it what is wrong with the seller giving it to the person who will pay the most? there's going to be 99 people without a generator one way or the other. selling it for the highest price merely increases the chances of the generator falling into the hands of the family that deserves it the most.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:02:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WarNoob:
so true my friend

when there's only 1 generator left and 100 people that want it what is wrong with the seller giving it to the person who will pay the most? there's going to be 99 people without a generator one way or the other. selling it for the highest price merely increases the chances of the generator falling into the hands of the family that deserves it the most.



actually selling it for the highest price means that the generator will fall into the hands of the family that has the most money...which could be the family who really doesnt need but wants it "just in case."
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:12:43 AM EDT
TAG.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:29:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WarNoob:
so true my friend

when there's only 1 generator left and 100 people that want it what is wrong with the seller giving it to the person who will pay the most? there's going to be 99 people without a generator one way or the other. selling it for the highest price merely increases the chances of the generator falling into the hands of the family that deserves it the most.



So you are saying the one with the most money deserves it more than the guy who only has enough for the orginal price? WTF is wrong with selling it at normal prices to the guy who got there first?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:47:46 AM EDT
I thank my lucky stars I don't live in NO. Hurricaine or no, I have never desired to go there. The murder capitol of the USA many times over, the mugging capitol, the corrupt PD capitol and the worst local government officials that ever had the displeasure of polluting my TV screen.

Maybe I am just a victem of skewed news reports, stats and doccumentaries. I have a friend who works ER in Dallas and the NO people who have managed to end up in ER from violent confrontations in bars and night clubs repeatedly yell at the top of their lungs they are from NO. Funny the upsurge they are seeing in this kind of BS. All of them holler they are from NO. The police have to remind them, they are no longer in NO, but in Texas as they get hauled off to jail.

OH! The jazz, the culture, the food, the conspiracy theories....you can have it.

Glad you came out OK. I am sure the majority of NO are good people, but the passive acceptance of the status quo is why the situation became so ugly in NO.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 1:26:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 1:26:28 AM EDT by absit]

Originally Posted By WarNoob:
so true my friend

when there's only 1 generator left and 100 people that want it what is wrong with the seller giving it to the person who will pay the most? there's going to be 99 people without a generator one way or the other. selling it for the highest price merely increases the chances of the generator falling into the hands of the family that deserves it the most.



You're joking, right?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 1:40:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
I carry extra gear and weapons for those people who lose, leave behind, or plain out don't have it.

Glad everything is going decent for you.



But I thought you only had the one lower!
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 1:44:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:
Glad you're OK.

Hope everything turns out alright.

WIZZO



+1

stay safe and good luck
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:33:40 AM EDT
Glad you're alright. Thanks for the story.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:31:53 AM EDT
RustyTX,

I heard there are a number of cases that will be looked into by the AG. I am sure the owner is too small to be investigated, but I am amazed how his pricing story made it around town, a lot of people at church and at the Winn Dixie were talking about this one store.

As far as glock23carry, everyone has their own opinions and I respect his (my new persona after the storm, new have patience outlook-will last a few more days!!!!) I don't with him-I do not feel he understands, the pioint I was trying to make is Home Depot one mile away has the generators for 1/3 the price, this guy knew what he was doing!!! I can assure you.

I do not live in NO. I live about 35 miles north, what we call the "Northshore" area and we did not have near the problems NO had, but the big task the local PD's and LE had was keeping the problems from migrating our way. And they did do a good job. I have to say our local politicians and parish president (Louisiana has parishes, not counties) were great and were not affraid to use their authority.

Remember NO was flooded, there was wind damage, but the flooding occured because of 30 years of political corruption, state and federal level. The boys knew the leeve system was marginal and a study by LSU/UNO and local experts said this was going to happen.

To keep the story on track and so we will not get locked, KISS with you systems, keep them ready and make sure you entire household can use the hardware when needed.

'Bronc

I want to appologize to all of you who watched the national news for the joke our governor is. My wife lost it when she got on TV and said to pack like you are going on a "camping trip"
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:28:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RustyTX:
That's just shitty Bronc. Will the AG in LA prosecute these people?


Originally Posted By 77Bronc:
Ace hardware store near me was selling the generator I purchased at Home Depot for $650 for a scum thief dirt bag price of $2100. I will never walk into that store again.

'Bronc




I hope they sue all of the class III dealers next for price gouging.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:00:34 AM EDT

Sounds like I'll be shopping for a flash light to attach to my AR 77Bronc. I've made some half assed attempts in the past but if I ever find myself in a situation wishing I had a good mount/light- it'll be no one's fault but my own. I've had a Surefire w/a crappy clamp which seems to work OK but neither the light nor the clamp was specifically designed for such an outfit. I need a simple, mission designed set up. Thanks for sharing.


Originally Posted By brushdog:

Originally Posted By RustyTX:
That's just shitty Bronc. Will the AG in LA prosecute these people?


Originally Posted By 77Bronc:
Ace hardware store near me was selling the generator I purchased at Home Depot for $650 for a scum thief dirt bag price of $2100. I will never walk into that store again.

'Bronc




I hope they sue all of the class III dealers next for price gouging.



They're not making Class III for civi sales so that's a poor comparision as last time I checked generators, which aren't even a right under the US Constitution, are still manufactured and sold to the civilian market.

As far as my take on "price gouging" I can understand both sides of the coin. I can see a shop rediculously raising they're prices to maximize they're business's chance of survival through a difficult ordeal... And I can see a usually trustworthy person who had faith in society being pushed over the edge by a $2100 price tag on a ~$600 item. I find it is simple for myself to label the shop owner a thief- and he'd be in good company when ordinarily decent folks lose faith in society... When it's all about survival, it's the Maverick that has the edge, not a shop owner that will have to remain in the same place either suffering attacks by his own likes or the fall out of popular opinion in his own little corner of the world once the sh*t is wiped from the oscillator.

Sly
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:34:32 AM EDT
The biggest piece of info I got from this post is to have a light on your SHTF weapon...

Spooky
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:34:43 AM EDT






Spoken like a man sitting in the comfort of his own home who has never been in a similar situation...



You are correct that I am. However I am correct that "price gouging" is a figment of people's imaginations.

Things cost what they cost, your desire for them to be cheaper is not relevant in a free market.

G

PS - I have been through hurricanes and I have spent time without power and water and with trees on top of roads and houses, by the way.

Well in times of regular commerce I would agree...but in disasters, emergencies, and in time of war
for me it's 'Love thy neighbor as thyself'...and 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'

Knowing full well that an emergency will be over in a short matter of time...and using the emergency
as a means to make a huge profit...is immoral...and has nothing to do with 'free market'

Witholding good from folks truly in need...is evil and un American

That being said you still have a right to be immoral and charge every penny you can get away with..
however when the next emergency happens and you find yourself in need...you might be very dissapointed
that those you screwed will screw you right back..

So there is both a moral and pragmatic reason not to 'screw thy neighbor'...

Looters however should be shot...those who come along looking to work for food and shelter should
not be denied if possible..

The businessman who decides to screw his neighbors or take advantage of their need in an emergency
is a worthless individual that would be better run out of the neighborhood due to a lack of further commerce


imo
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:35:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brushdog:

Originally Posted By RustyTX:
That's just shitty Bronc. Will the AG in LA prosecute these people?


Originally Posted By 77Bronc:
Ace hardware store near me was selling the generator I purchased at Home Depot for $650 for a scum thief dirt bag price of $2100. I will never walk into that store again.

'Bronc




I hope they sue all of the class III dealers next for price gouging.



What if they passed an AWB and all of a sudden a cheap Colt carbine was going for 3 times its original price or a Styer AUG was all of a sudden thousands of dollars? Those price gouging bastards!

G
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:10:18 AM EDT
I want to discuss price gouging too, but let's be respectful of this man's thread.

BTW, thanks for the thread 77Bronc. I'm glad everything is looking up. I'll be on the lookout for a light mounting opportunity on my AR.

Edwin, I'm glad you guys are going to be OK also. After reading your post, I don't feel so bad about the hundreds of dollars I've sent to Surefire and Streamlight over the years.

R.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:26:41 AM EDT
Sure are a lot of anti-capitalists around here.

Is it immoral? Yes, of course.

Should it be illegal? No.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 11:01:17 AM EDT
Thanks for sharing. Good luck Bronc.

Max
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 11:45:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 11:51:13 AM EDT by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:03:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 9divdoc:

Well in times of regular commerce I would agree...but in disasters, emergencies, and in time of war
for me it's 'Love thy neighbor as thyself'...and 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'

Knowing full well that an emergency will be over in a short matter of time...and using the emergency
as a means to make a huge profit...is immoral...and has nothing to do with 'free market'

Witholding good from folks truly in need...is evil and un American

That being said you still have a right to be immoral and charge every penny you can get away with..
however when the next emergency happens and you find yourself in need...you might be very dissapointed
that those you screwed will screw you right back..

So there is both a moral and pragmatic reason not to 'screw thy neighbor'...

Looters however should be shot...those who come along looking to work for food and shelter should
not be denied if possible..

The businessman who decides to screw his neighbors or take advantage of their need in an emergency
is a worthless individual that would be better run out of the neighborhood due to a lack of further commerce


imo



Very well said....thanks for bringing that point to the conversation.

Sean
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:15:32 PM EDT

I just got back vrom a month of deployment as an MP in NO.

I was working security, not recovery.

Here are my "survival" observations as far as weapons:

1. Have one. Before we got there (3 days) it was literally chaos, every man for himself.

2. Keep it discreet. The local cops down there were basically shooting people who had guns in the open after curfew. I would advise a concealed pistol on your person, and the rifle left in the vehicle. Don't sling your M4 and start walking around town!

3. Do not try to impersonate a LE or other official. We had several folks wearing SHERIFF T-shirts and packing pistols who were not in LE, trying to bypass checkopints, etc. That is a good way to get shot.

4. Do not go out after curfew. Like I said, it was basically an unofficial shoot-on-sight policy if they had weapons. For an honest citizen stuck in NO, your best bet was to stay in your house at night with your guns ready. We had a few white males wondering around at night with guns. Luckily our guys did not shoot them. They ended up being ok, just stupid. They were trying to get from one house to another and were afraid to go without guns. They should have waited until morning!

5. The race issue. And this is NO specific: many of the cops down there were focusing on the poor black population that many of us saw all over the news. A black man with a gun in the open was pretty much bought and paid for. Not neccessarily racism(there was some of that), just the circumstances of the situation.



Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:16:33 PM EDT
Seems to me a lot of people are ignoring the possibility that the guy who was selling the generator might have had to pay a higher price himself, or the replacement cost for it from his distributor went up. I'm sure you guys stopped buying gas when the price went up because the store was gouging you, right?

If I sell something for $650 two months ago, and this week it costs me $1150 to get the same thing, am I "gouging" you when I sell it for $1200? Guess the store owner should just stop feeding his family to please people who can't see the forest for the trees.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:25:55 PM EDT
Well for you folks that dont see the practice of price gouging as a bad one... Maybe next time you NEED an operation rather than some elective surgery, you wouldnt be against the doctors knocking the price of the procedure up 150 to 200 percent because after all...Its good buisness..... Same thing....Same thing.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:26:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SeanK1ng:

Originally Posted By 9divdoc:

Well in times of regular commerce I would agree...but in disasters, emergencies, and in time of war
for me it's 'Love thy neighbor as thyself'...and 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'

Knowing full well that an emergency will be over in a short matter of time...and using the emergency
as a means to make a huge profit...is immoral...and has nothing to do with 'free market'

Witholding good from folks truly in need...is evil and un American

That being said you still have a right to be immoral and charge every penny you can get away with..
however when the next emergency happens and you find yourself in need...you might be very dissapointed
that those you screwed will screw you right back..

So there is both a moral and pragmatic reason not to 'screw thy neighbor'...

Looters however should be shot...those who come along looking to work for food and shelter should
not be denied if possible..

The businessman who decides to screw his neighbors or take advantage of their need in an emergency
is a worthless individual that would be better run out of the neighborhood due to a lack of further commerce


imo



Very well said....thanks for bringing that point to the conversation.

Sean




+100!
Thanks for the first hand info.
Best of luck to you people down in the HELL ZONE!
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:29:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:35:13 PM EDT
Hmmm....lights on ARs.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:39:04 PM EDT
I try to keep extra guns for family members and friends who dont have any in case of an emergency. They are nothing special just two or three extra 22's and some single shot rifles and shotguns. They arent much but it is better than throwing stones. It seems people always say I dont need a firearm but when something goes wrong they are the first to ask for some sort of protection.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:45:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
I discount that possibility as I am sure his replacement cost was little changed. If replacement cost had gone up, I am sure it would have been reflected in higher costs nationwide just like wiht gas prices.



I see your point, but I think that locally (where those items were scarce), that his short-term replacement costs could have sky-rocketed. Just like gas went up drastically, then fell quickly (though not enough). Add to that the fact that getting anything there was very difficult because the are was just about shut off = higher prices. I just think people should not get worked up about it. It makes sense, and should be expected - especially right in the middle of the disaster area. Something people want real bad that is hard to get is going to get expensive. They weren't needed real bad a few months earlier, and were easy to get. Of course, this is just one dumb guy's opinion.

On the light issue - it still amazes me that some people still argue that they are a bad idea. The main argument being that a light will draw fire. A light is the first thing I put on a fighting gun, period. All the other doo-dads are great, but you can get by with a light and irons (even though I love the Aimpoints and EOTechs, etc).
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:53:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By glock23carry:


One other downside, there are a lot of people taking advantage of those in a tight spot. One such Ace hardware store near me was selling the generator I purchased at Home Depot for $650 for a scum thief dirt bag price of $2100. I will never walk into that store again.



I was on board until you said that. Remember, the best cure for high prices is high prices. The market will correct the imbalance shortly.

You have to remember there are no new generators being shipped in weekly like before the storm. They are not thieves, they are just reflecting the value of the item. "Price fixing" laws show a distinct lack of understanding of economics.

G



That's all well and good, but if he decides never to set foot in that store again, that's a FREE MARKET decision he has made. He never mentioned government intervention. He simply chooses not to patronize that store ever again. It goes both ways.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 1:06:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _Notch_:
Well for you folks that dont see the practice of price gouging as a bad one... Maybe next time you NEED an operation rather than some elective surgery, you wouldnt be against the doctors knocking the price of the procedure up 150 to 200 percent because after all...Its good buisness..... Same thing....Same thing.



Consumers put downward pressure on the prices of everything through their spending habits.

In your example, it's the insurance companies who put downward pressure on the price of a medical procedure. For a person without insurance, your example holds water to some extent. I think the new bankruptcy laws should have included exeptions for medical bills in order to help out in that case. (Do I have my facts straight?)

I say the Hardware store owner is a scumbag, but I still think he has the right to charge whatever he wants for the generator, as long as he did not collude with other hardware stores in the area to fix a price. I wouldn't ever shop there again, by the way.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 1:08:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 1:08:26 PM EDT by BravoCompanyUSA]
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 1:22:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WarNoob:
so true my friend

when there's only 1 generator left and 100 people that want it what is wrong with the seller giving it to the person who will pay the most? there's going to be 99 people without a generator one way or the other. selling it for the highest price merely increases the chances of the generator falling into the hands of the family that deserves it the most.



What a fucking asshat you are. What a first post.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 1:51:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 1:56:04 PM EDT by georgejetson]
Well you see it takes a natural desaster to bring the best and worse in people,I was in the middle of hurricane Andrew and there was scumbags selling water for 4.00 a gallon and candlles for 10.00 etc etc any ways the state of FL took care a lot of those scumbags after many people complaings and as far as law and order we had none, the only thing we had was our rihts to keep and bear arms, the morral of the story is when society breaks down is you and your guns only and maybe the national guart a week later.....
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:39:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MP906:
I just got back vrom a month of deployment as an MP in NO.

I was working security, not recovery.

Here are my "survival" observations as far as weapons:

1. Have one. Before we got there (3 days) it was literally chaos, every man for himself.

2. Keep it discreet. The local cops down there were basically shooting people who had guns in the open after curfew. I would advise a concealed pistol on your person, and the rifle left in the vehicle. Don't sling your M4 and start walking around town!

3. Do not try to impersonate a LE or other official. We had several folks wearing SHERIFF T-shirts and packing pistols who were not in LE, trying to bypass checkopints, etc. That is a good way to get shot.

4. Do not go out after curfew. Like I said, it was basically an unofficial shoot-on-sight policy if they had weapons. For an honest citizen stuck in NO, your best bet was to stay in your house at night with your guns ready. We had a few white males wondering around at night with guns. Luckily our guys did not shoot them. They ended up being ok, just stupid. They were trying to get from one house to another and were afraid to go without guns. They should have waited until morning!

5. The race issue. And this is NO specific: many of the cops down there were focusing on the poor black population that many of us saw all over the news. A black man with a gun in the open was pretty much bought and paid for. Not neccessarily racism(there was some of that), just the circumstances of the situation.






Kind of the same thing in south MS after the storm. I live in a town that is all white in the country. Our local high school was a shelter for mostly white people that did not want to be in shelters that was mostly black people. Well, the NG had brought 200-300 black people from town up here from an over-crowded shelter to stay at the high school. People that were already at the shelter started having personal items and wallets coming up missing and many items were being stolen from the school so they bussed the 200-300 back to town and after that, no more problems. It is the majority scum that cause problems for the honest black people! Not to be racist, but that is the truth.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:31:54 PM EDT
Prices reflect value. In remote Alaska, the value (and price) of a used car can exceed the price of a new car in the lower 48, simply because it's there. Supply and demand drives the price. It's ugly, but predictable. Just like having food and water on hand, preparedness pays off. First the necessities, then the luxeries.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:40:43 PM EDT
Glad to hear you're okay.

On a side note, the #2 most wanted person on the NO top ten was just caught at a charity hotel about 1 mile away from my work. It's to bad there's still good people suffering worse while the scum are getting treatment they don't deserve.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:06:01 PM EDT
thru rita I learned that I had made the right choice with my shtf rifle, I have a 20"colt that was just perfect in size as I patrolled my townhomes, and the best choice I made was haveing a p-51 in my butt stock and I learned when stocking up on suplies is to always have peptobismal, couldn't get any for a week
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