I've been debating whether to get a vortex or an AK concepts comp, but I'd heard that a muzzle compensator has no place on a battle rifle, that it ought to be for target rifles only.  Is there any merit to that line of reasoning or what?  I'd think that being able to put more rounds on target faster would be more worthwhile but I though i'd just tap the hivemind on this issue before going further.

ETA:  This'll be on a 16' carbine first, before taking care of the 20'.  Both currently have birdcages.

[naggy tone] Not the fhaaantooom. [/naggy tone]

And I figure it'd compensate about as well as the birdcage, no?

hers my awnser:

by "SHTF" rifle, I assume you mean "rifle designed for shooting people, multiple ones manuvering against me if necesary" right?

#1 the probability that the weapon that saves your life is your rifle, (and not your CCW) is low.

#2 if SHTF, I would try to AVOID AT ALL COSTS open combat. a simple cut to the leg could be deadly.

#3 if for some odd reason, youre using your rifle against "soft targets" AND its at night, I would think that having the ability for quicker follow up shots would be paramount.

#4 think about it this way: you are DETONATING a small amount of explosives, which can be heard for miles, and you are worried about whether or not the guys that are 50' away know where you are based on your muzzle flash?

Unless you have a SBR shooting m193 the flash isnt that bad. Im wanting to get rid of my vortex and replace it with a good but not overly loud break.

Quoted: #4 think about it this way: you are DETONATING a small amount of explosives, which can be heard for miles, and you are worried about whether or not the guys that are 50' away know where you are based on your muzzle flash?

Well nothing is blowing up, its a fast burn.  Also a big reason for a flash supressor is so you dont blow your night vision when you shoot.  I vote vortex.  I have 2 and love it.  

Quoted: hers my awnser: by "SHTF" rifle, I assume you mean "rifle designed for shooting people, multiple ones manuvering against me if necesary" right? #1 the probability that the weapon that saves your life is your rifle, (and not your CCW) is low. #2 if SHTF, I would try to AVOID AT ALL COSTS open combat. a simple cut to the leg could be deadly. #3 if for some odd reason, youre using your rifle against "soft targets" AND its at night, I would think that having the ability for quicker follow up shots would be paramount. #4 think about it this way: you are DETONATING a small amount of explosives, which can be heard for miles, and you are worried about whether or not the guys that are 50' away know where you are based on your muzzle flash?

The first two points are very true and very reasonable, so you're obviously and intelligent person.   But WTF happened on those second two?  

on #3, what is paramount is that you be able to see what you're shooting at.  If you can't handle the recoil of a .223 then you might as well just give it all up.

on #4, flash suppressors are not meant for hiding your location, they are for preserving your night vision so that you can see what you're shooting at.  

Even then, muzzle noise only tells the targets that they are being shot at.  If you are in the middle of a big, open field then maybe it will tell them the general direction that the rounds are coming from.  If you are around any buildings or mountainsides then the sound will echo and even the direction can be difficult to tell.  If they are in the middle of shooting too then they are pretty much deafened anyway.  Especially if they're also using a rifle with a brake that is redirecting all that noise back at their unprotected ears, which is another thing to keep in mind.  What gives away the shooters position (other than movement of the shooter) is the visual cues of blast, flash and smoke from the muzzle.  You can't do much about smoke.  Flash from a bare muzzle or a muzzle brake can be very noticable even in daylight while a good flash suppressor like a vortex or phantom can do a lot to hide .  Blast is the really big issue.  I've seen the side blast from muzzle brakes strip layers off masonite that was being used for barricades in shooting classes.   Imagine how easy it is to spot a shooter otherwise hidden by brush with that kind of side blast.  You'll still have blast with a suppressor like a phantom but it is not nearly as bad.

Phantom, for reasons stated in previous post.

Don't forget some muzzle breaks increase the sound level to deafening proportions.

Did a search to get this topic.

Good to see the discussion, as I fired a Bushmaster Dissapator at dusk tonight. This one is "post ban" with no muzzle device.

The flash with XM193 was very brilliant, and even with low sun, my bad, corrected, eyes took a bit to re-acquire the target.

It's been awhile. Since the expiration of the AWB, a muzzle device can be 'removable', yes?

Pacer

Yeah, a "stamped' can would be even nicer to add. Just don't know if I want to go through the application and become more of a "known" target. But since this arm is for use indoors, it would make a great deal of sense.

Funny, I've been considering the same two. I understand the Vortex has best flash reduction, but the AK concepts video really has me thinking that's the route I will take, at least with this first carbine. I think anything that speeds up your follow-up shots in a SHTF situation is of more value than FH. It's not about 'handling' the recoil of the 5.56, it's about getting all your shots on target as quickly as possible. Just my .02 Someone did a test here recently - but I don't have a link. I plan to use the Vortex on my 20" and the AK concepts on the 16" carbine.