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Posted: 3/9/2005 7:04:49 AM EST
OK, guys, I'm currently talking to Mueller Optics about some scope ideas. It would help if you guys would post your thoughts/opinions on a few items we're discussing.

I was discussing with them their current 4-16x50 AO mildot illuminated tactical scope. I noted that some reviews (and my personal preference) was against the 1/8" turret click adjustments in favor of 1/4" adjustments. This allows fewer clicks for longer ranges, and eliminates the weird final "missing" clicks (60 can be divided by 4, but not by 8 - this leaves some extra clicks, and it gets tough to figure out your MOA adjustments. Not to mention having to keep track of a ton of clicks.)

I also think that 50mm objective is just too damn big - there really isn't a huge incerease in light transmission between 44mm and 50 - and on a "tactical" scope I would rather have a lower scope mounted for better cheek weld.

Here is what my email pal said

"Actually producing a 4-16x44AO with 1/4moa can easily be done but we haven't
really seen any requests for such or we would produce it."

What do you all think? Would you prefer 44mm objective AND the 1/4" click adjustments?

He's also interested in your thoughts on a CQB scope that has 1x-3x or so magnification.

Post here and I'll send the link to him to check us out here.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 10:03:46 AM EST
I have a Mueller scope and really like it. Very good quality for the money.

I would like the 42mm to 44mm Obj. and the 1/4" I like better. I really like a 30mm tube over the 1" tube though. Just a thought.

A quality CQB would be very interesting.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 11:46:50 AM EST
In regards to the CQB scope, perhaps a scope that incorporates a red dot/black dot like the Russian PK-AS-W www.freedomoptics.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=153
or a yellow dot/black dot like the Leupold CQ/T. It would have to at least a 30mm tube if not closer to an Aimpoint. The reticule brightness would have to be high enough so the the lit reticule dose not fade and the black shows through which is a problem with the CQ/T. Battery life would need to be good as well, 1k plus hours. Parallax free of course and not be to heavy. Basically I'm thinking something similar to a Aimpoint CompM with 3x magnification built in, red dot/black dot. But as I said there is allot to address in terms of battery life, durability, weight, clarity, light transmission, and so on.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 11:48:34 AM EST
Guys, the owner of Mueller and I are in the process of nailing down interest in a special Tactical scope. He is very eager to get input.



One question he had - would you prefer a fixed Objective, or an Adjustable Objective? He said that side-focus objectives would add to the cost, though.



Also, he is really trying to guage interest in a special Tactical scope offered exclusively a yet-to-be-named comany - depending on the price and features, he can have these scopes ramped up and produced pretty quickly if there is enough interest to justify it.

Here's another quote from him for your consideration:

We need to emphasize that if cost is a concern, keep the features realistic
and don't ask for features that will drive the costs up. A Side AO is a nice
feature but will begin to drive the costs up. I also see another post where
the user wants full target turrets with out turret covers. If that's the
users desire, he can just leave the covers off our scopes and have exposed
target style turrets, that's the reason behind our current design
(multi-purpose). Leave them on for protection or leave them off for
accessibility."


Link Posted: 3/9/2005 11:52:23 AM EST
to answer the question regarding fixed vs adjustible i prefer adjustible.

i would like them to make an 6.5 x 20 x 50 (or 44mm) version of this scope though.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 4:59:06 PM EST
tag
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 5:28:12 PM EST
1/2" clicks would be kind of sweet. Not as many clicks for long range shooters, and close enough for short ranges. 30mm tube, AO, fixed 6x and 10x. That's what I would like, anyway.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 6:48:05 PM EST
A true 1-4x (no magnification at 1x) with an illuminated reticle and good eye relief.

I've never used a US Optics SN-4, but that scope seems like a great CQB to intermediate range scope.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 4:44:49 AM EST
Small 1-4 power scope, 1 mil center dot, larger outer ring maybe 16 mil like the Eotech, a BDC range lines like the ACOG for the M4. And also horizonal lines that can be used for range est. Dot and large ring light up. Also run it off a AA, AAA or surfire 123 battery. Include rings, and keep it under $500. Zoom the dot, so its 4 mil at 1 power, and 1 mile at 4 power.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 5:41:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Larry-18thABN:
Small 1-4 power scope, 1 mil center dot, larger outer ring maybe 16 mil like the Eotech, a BDC range lines like the ACOG for the M4. And also horizonal lines that can be used for range est. Dot and large ring light up. Also run it off a AA, AAA or surfire 123 battery. Include rings, and keep it under $500. Zoom the dot, so its 4 mil at 1 power, and 1 mile at 4 power.



I'd buy that scope today!
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 11:49:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2005 11:50:54 AM EST by N2DFire]
Have them read this thread and build to fill the niche
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=215966
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 12:01:42 PM EST
Would it be usable on a .308?
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 12:59:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By Larry-18thABN:
Small 1-4 power scope, 1 mil center dot, larger outer ring maybe 16 mil like the Eotech, a BDC range lines like the ACOG for the M4. And also horizonal lines that can be used for range est. Dot and large ring light up. Also run it off a AA, AAA or surfire 123 battery. Include rings, and keep it under $500. Zoom the dot, so its 4 mil at 1 power, and 1 mile at 4 power.



Keep to AA (with the ability to run off NiMH AA rechargables) or 123 batteries.

Rings don't matter to me.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 8:20:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By chp5:
A true 1-4x (no magnification at 1x) with an illuminated reticle and good eye relief.

I've never used a US Optics SN-4, but that scope seems like a great CQB to intermediate range scope.



You mean 4-6 hour reticle life on the battery is excellent?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 2:37:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By chp5:
A true 1-4x (no magnification at 1x) with an illuminated reticle and good eye relief.

I've never used a US Optics SN-4, but that scope seems like a great CQB to intermediate range scope.



You mean 4-6 hour reticle life on the battery is excellent?



What do you think?

Ideal battery life would be similar to the Aimpoint.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 11:20:52 AM EST
for competitive 3-gun, there is definite need for a good value in 1-4x scopes. If i had to pick a magic price, $350 would caniballize the current $600+ market and lure in lots of people who think it's cool, but don't want to spend that kind of cash. But it would have to be a solid value.

The killer features to do it right would be the following:

-large exit pupil
-wide field of view
-eye relief that doesn't vary wildly between 1x and 4x
-some sort of stadia for doing holdover (safer to go with something like mils than compensated for drop for a particular caliber)
-reticle should have a heavy/thick/bold aiming area for close up hosing at 1x, and a finer aiming area for 4x or farther targets.
-works with both eyes open.


Those at least appear to be the common wishes in the 3-gun world.
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