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Posted: 1/8/2005 2:11:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 9:19:21 AM EDT by wyv3rn]
Just got my new Aimpoint M2 & Larue standard-height (lower 1/3 co-witness) throw-lever mount. Thank you GandR. I'm not new to optics. I have experience with traditional scopes and red-dot sights on other firearms. This is my first personally-owned Aimpoint though, I've been using irons (still love'm!) on my AR since I bought it. I want to get your guys thoughts on this experiment.

I have been playing with mounting the Aimpoint in a traditional right-handed position (power knob @ 1:30 viewed from rear) and upside-down (power knob @ 7:30 viewed from rear). What do I hope to accomplish by doing this, what is the point? Because I see the Aimpoint knob as its achiles heel. I've seen plenty of pictures and heard plenty of stories of broken Aimpoint knobs. Obviously this is not often considering the sheer number of Aimpoints out there, but it CAN and DOES happen. So I say why not mitigate it if the trade-offs are minimal? So I set out to see just how minimal or not the trade-offs are. The Larue mount is what makes running the Aimpoint upside-down possible. Here are my observations:

Upside down in Larue mount, shooting right-handed or left-handed:

-Aimpoint power/brightness knob much more protected. Almost any drop of the rifle is not going to allow the knob to absorb the full impact as other parts of the rifle will be hitting the ground first or simultaneously. Elevation adjustment is also more protected (doesn't really matter though). When the Aimpoint is mounted traditionally the rifle has a wide drop-area that could land directly power-knob first even on flat surfaces.
-Same/somewhat easier to use power control knob with left hand. Slightly more trouble to operate with right hand, but not difficult. Pretty easy with a little practice actually. Can be manipulated with right thumb if there is space infront. Right index or middle finger must be used if blocked by BUIS, NV gear, etc. I see this OVERALL as a wash. A slight plus for right handed shooting (easier to actuate with left hand, keep right on pistol grip, not block sight picture). A slight minus for left handed shooting as you must reach to the other side with your right hand if you want to keep the left hand on the pistol grip.
-Windage adjustment the same, just on left side. Easy to remember no matter how you mount your Aimpoint.. knob arrow direction (counter clock-wise) moves POI toward knob you are adjusting side (goes for both knobs).
-Elevation adjustment. This I see as the only REAL downside, but it is mitigated quite well with the Larue mount. Remove mount, adjust elevation as normal, re-install mount. Unlike most other mounts the Larue does not block the elevation adjustment when it is facing downward. And because it is a throw-lever mount it returns to zero every time, so removing it to adjust is a non-issue from a POI shifting standpoint. In all you are only adding the time to remove the mount and reinstall it. You can still get in there pretty easily to adjust it without removing the mount from the rail with an appropriate tool, without a tool takes too long and is too much trouble.
-Irons co-withness the same, sight-picture is the same, caps flip-down out of the box (would make them flip-down anyway), slightly less clutter (Aimpoint width at top, elevation & power/brightness adjustment) above the Aimpoint -- a small plus when using rifle-mounted NV.

None of this interferes with my planned use for this optic:

I prefer shooting righty, but do shoot lefty sometimes. With a 0-300 yard flat trajectory, I don't ever plan to adjust the elevation on my Aimpoint for a "long range" shot. Even a normally mounted Aimpoint, I still wouldn't remove the elevation adjustment cap and adjust elevation in the middle of SHTF to take a 450y shot (that will probably never present itself to/for me in my lifetime anyway) with an 1x/4MOA Aimpoint. At that range with an Aimpoint the majority of the time it's evade or avoid & close-the-distance. If it's so desparate I need to take a shot NOW I'll be holding over (16" bbl, Mk262 Mod1+250y zero, shoulders @350y, top of head@400y, lots of praying) as I wouldn't have time to adjust it anyway. Even if I wanted to adjust the sight, takes a lot longer to remove the cap and adjust the sight than it does to remove and remount the optic. It's zeroed on the range and then it's not touched.

Anyway.. these are my leanings/observations so far. Yeah, it's unconventional, please don't flame me personally for it. I'm experimenting & trying something different with new equipment, and sharing my observations. Not claiming it is better. I'm looking for feedback/discussion. Mainly, are there any other negatives I'm overlooking? Thanks in advance.

Edited to add "o'clocks" to better explain power knob position.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:27:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 6:27:51 AM EDT by mcgrubbs]
Here is the way I see running your Aimpoint with the knobs to the left.

With the Aimpoint, you shoot with both eyes open. With the knobs to the right, the knobs can partially occlude what your right eye sees.

With the knobs to the left, your right eye has a full view, and your left is far enough away from the knobs to have a full view also.

So, in theory, this can give you better field of vision. To keep from runing into walls, corners, and help see bad people.

You can also try running it with the knobs down at a 45 degree angle. This would get them even further out of the way.

Just try it, and see what you think.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:21:41 AM EDT
The reasoning behind it makes sense in regards to trying to give additional protection to the on/off switch. the Only reason I would not like it is I am really fond of being able to use the blade edge of my left hand to roll the switch on and off or to adjust birightness. I would hate to have to give that. everything else sounds pretty doable.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:27:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 5:45:27 PM EDT by Matt_B]
Very cool wyv3rn. I'll have to look at my ARMS cantilever mount and see if I can do this. You've hit upon a great solution to known weakness. Kudos to you!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:47:07 AM EDT
It's funny you brought this up. I was playing with my M2 a few days ago and thought the same thing. My Larue mount hasn't arrived yet so I haven't actually tried it.

I wanted to get the knob out of my field of view. My only concern is being able to as easily actuate the knob, but have it protected enough from the most common bumps which could tweak it off.

-z
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:35:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 7:04:11 PM EDT by wyv3rn]
I suprised I haven't been laughed out of the forum. I expected a cold reception. Can anyone think of some downsides I am not seeing?

I can stil ham-handedly roll the knob quickly and easily with the left hand. You can't hand-ham the knob with the right hand with the knob in this position, you do have to use a thumb or finger. The knob is not blocked or difficult to get to, it's just not sticking way out in the open anymore. Another neat thing is when using a magwell hold or foregrip I can just slide my hand to the top of it, extend my thumb and adjust the brightness without having to let go of the magwell or foregrip.

Also, I don't know why it never occured to me to mention this before but you could run the power knob @ the 4:30 (viewed from the rear) if you shoot lefty most often. You get the same protection as running it @ 7:30, it's just the knob postions' pros and cons are reversed. A little more lefty-friendly position.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:16:05 PM EDT
My concern with it on the lower-left is that if you drop it into your sling, it may rub on your torso/gear and adjust the knob (for right-handed shooters).
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:46:41 PM EDT
Bah, this trick won't work with an ARMS 22M68 w/cantilever spacer. I was planning on getting a Larue mount for my next build anyway.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:39:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 7:05:48 PM EDT by wyv3rn]

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:
My concern with it on the lower-left is that if you drop it into your sling, it may rub on your torso/gear and adjust the knob (for right-handed shooters).



Good point, I'll definetly be watching for that while I try it this way for a couple months (unless I find something that kills the whole idea of course).

This won't work with Larue's cantilever mount.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:07:36 PM EDT
Good suggestion wyv3rn. I'm happy with a 10.30 position for mine (indicated LH setup, I'm RH), and have enough muscle memory cycles built up to stay that way. Since I'll be migrating to a LT canti mount I'll have to stay the same then as well.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 9:36:41 AM EDT
Upper left corner for me, allowing easy adjustments with left hand while keeping right hand on the pistol grip. Total opposite of the "right side for right handed shooters, left side for lefties" that is in the instruction manual.
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