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Posted: 9/28/2011 8:33:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 9:23:29 AM EST by 7n6]
I am not new to AR's, owned quite a few but sold them all because I could never find one that was truly reliable. I am sitting on a pile of magazines so I may buy a couple more. Now I've run probably 75K rounds through the AR's I owned over a decade or so. I owned several LMT's, a few Colt's, a Bushmaster, and some guns that I built over those years. I've tried piston guns, they run clean but would sometimes rip through the case rim even when using H2 or H3 buffers and generally when it was really cold outside.

What I want to do is build or buy a rifle that would be ultimately reliable in all weather conditions. More accurately, who actually runs their AR's in sub zero temps, what are your specific builds, and what type of lube? I've run Colt's, LMT's, and piston guns with graphite in those temps but none ran perfectly- such that I ended up dumping my entire AR collection. Perhaps I missed something and am wanting to see if there are better options should I get back into AR's again.

Thanks,

Link Posted: 9/28/2011 8:39:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 8:43:53 AM EST by sinlessorrow]
Lmt
Spikes
Colt
Bcm
Bushmaster
And any other flavor of the month

Any ar can run in 80f weather, i live in se texas where on a good day its 90 with 80% humidity

Just keep your ar lubed and itllgo thousands without being cleaned even suppressed

ETA: just reread that, they make a cerain lube that keeps the gun from locking up due to freezin but i cant remember it

Ithink its silver bullet oil or somethin like that
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:23:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 9:23:40 AM EST by js308]
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:

Lmt
Colt
Bcm
Noveske
Knight's Armament
Bushmaster
Daniel Defense
Spikes


And any other flavor of the month

Any ar can run in 80f weather, i live in se texas where on a good day its 90 with 80% humidity

Just keep your ar lubed and itllgo thousands without being cleaned even suppressed

ETA: just reread that, they make a cerain lube that keeps the gun from locking up due to freezin but i cant remember it

Ithink its silver bullet oil or somethin like that


Fixed it for ya
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:24:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 9:26:41 AM EST by 7n6]
Originally Posted By js308:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:

Lmt
Colt
Bcm
Noveske
Knight's Armament
Bushmaster
Daniel Defense
Spikes


And any other flavor of the month

Any ar can run in 80f weather, i live in se texas where on a good day its 90 with 80% humidity

Just keep your ar lubed and itllgo thousands without being cleaned even suppressed

ETA: just reread that, they make a cerain lube that keeps the gun from locking up due to freezin but i cant remember it

Ithink its silver bullet oil or somethin like that


Fixed it for ya



Nevermind you crossed out Bushmaster- which I have found are fine as long as you use a better carrier.

Still though out of that list I owned several Colt's and LMT's and neither ran well when the temps dropped.






Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:27:39 AM EST
With the proper lubricant any AR will run in a cold weather environment.

Use LAW.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:34:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By WI57:
With the proper lubricant any AR will run in a cold weather environment.

Use LAW.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile




I didn't find that to be true which is why I'm asking. I used graphite for lube at the time. I'm willing to try again because I did dump a $15K AR collection over those years due to this. I don't go when it's nice out- I wait till it's retarded cold and hit the range.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:40:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By 7n6:
Originally Posted By WI57:
With the proper lubricant any AR will run in a cold weather environment.

Use LAW.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile




I didn't find that to be true which is why I'm asking. I used graphite for lube at the time. I'm willing to try again because I did dump a $15K AR collection over those years due to this. I don't go when it's nice out- I wait till it's retarded cold and hit the range.


Please never use graphite on an AR, can cause a bad corrosive reaction.
If you used really heavy lube that gelled when it was chilled I could see it causing problems.
Higher power ammunition may be needed since colder temps cause powder to burn slower.

What kind of problems were you having?


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:40:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By 7n6:
Originally Posted By WI57:
With the proper lubricant any AR will run in a cold weather environment.

Use LAW.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile




I didn't find that to be true which is why I'm asking. I used graphite for lube at the time. I'm willing to try again because I did dump a $15K AR collection over those years due to this. I don't go when it's nice out- I wait till it's retarded cold and hit the range.

so you wait till after you dump 15k worth of rifles to ask? hmmmm

Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:00:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 10:00:09 AM EST by dispatch55126]
Run 0W-30 Mobil 1 in the pleasant Minnesota winters and have never had a problem with things locking up to to the cold. As other's have said, don't use heavy greases or powdered graphite's.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:05:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 11:37:23 AM EST by M4A1]
Originally Posted By 7n6:
Originally Posted By js308:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:

Lmt
Colt
Bcm
Noveske
Knight's Armament
Bushmaster
Daniel Defense
Spikes


And any other flavor of the month

Any ar can run in 80f weather, i live in se texas where on a good day its 90 with 80% humidity

Just keep your ar lubed and itllgo thousands without being cleaned even suppressed

ETA: just reread that, they make a cerain lube that keeps the gun from locking up due to freezin but i cant remember it

Ithink its silver bullet oil or somethin like that


Fixed it for ya



Nevermind you crossed out Bushmaster- which I have found are fine as long as you use a better carrier.

Still though out of that list I owned several Colt's and LMT's and neither ran well when the temps dropped.




I don't think LMT and Colt are the problem, I think your choice of lube is the problem. Try Mobile 1.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:25:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By js308:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:

Lmt
Colt
Bcm
Noveske
Knight's Armament
Bushmaster
Daniel Defense
Spikes


And any other flavor of the month

Any ar can run in 80f weather, i live in se texas where on a good day its 90 with 80% humidity

Just keep your ar lubed and itllgo thousands without being cleaned even suppressed

ETA: just reread that, they make a cerain lube that keeps the gun from locking up due to freezin but i cant remember it

Ithink its silver bullet oil or somethin like that


Fixed it for ya


Haha thanks i had a brain fart on brands when i posted that
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:35:47 AM EST
you should think out side the box an use car oil
or something like that
some of that stuff is made for the cold
an it dont hurt any to try


Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:44:04 AM EST
Agree that it might be your choice of lube. Haven't noticed any issues running my piston or DI AR's in sub zero weather. I was running BF CLP at the time. (about -12 f is the lowest I've gone shooting) They might cycle a little slow, but still run.

I do remember reading an interesting article that the Alaska State Patrol tested a handful of AR type rifles. I believe the IMI Galil was one of the top performers.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 11:37:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By afroney:
Agree that it might be your choice of lube. Haven't noticed any issues running my piston or DI AR's in sub zero weather. I was running BF CLP at the time. (about -12 f is the lowest I've gone shooting) They might cycle a little slow, but still run.

I do remember reading an interesting article that the Alaska State Patrol tested a handful of AR type rifles. I believe the IMI Galil was one of the top performers.




I own nothing but AK's now but miss having an AR at times- which is the reason for my inquiry. I didn't think someone could use patrolium based products in that kind of temp with an AR, which is why I used graphite. I used CLP in those temps and that's when I had issues. Now I think the fact that I was running all carbine length gas systems may have had something to do with it. The higher pressure from the shorter gas system may have been s culprit. If you didn't have issues what was your exact set up?

thanks,

Link Posted: 9/28/2011 11:39:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By afroney:
Agree that it might be your choice of lube. Haven't noticed any issues running my piston or DI AR's in sub zero weather. I was running BF CLP at the time. (about -12 f is the lowest I've gone shooting) They might cycle a little slow, but still run.

I do remember reading an interesting article that the Alaska State Patrol tested a handful of AR type rifles. I believe the IMI Galil was one of the top performers.


The Galil is based off the AK platform. Nothing remotely close to an AR.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 11:50:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By 7n6:
Originally Posted By afroney:
Agree that it might be your choice of lube. Haven't noticed any issues running my piston or DI AR's in sub zero weather. I was running BF CLP at the time. (about -12 f is the lowest I've gone shooting) They might cycle a little slow, but still run.

I do remember reading an interesting article that the Alaska State Patrol tested a handful of AR type rifles. I believe the IMI Galil was one of the top performers.




I own nothing but AK's now but miss having an AR at times- which is the reason for my inquiry. I didn't think someone could use patrolium based products in that kind of temp with an AR, which is why I used graphite. I used CLP in those temps and that's when I had issues. Now I think the fact that I was running all carbine length gas systems may have had something to do with it. The higher pressure from the shorter gas system may have been s culprit. If you didn't have issues what was your exact set up?

thanks,



The rifle wasnt the problem i was your lube, use something like car oil. Oil is perfectly fine to use in an ar and if it can withstand extreme lows youll be fine
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 11:58:26 AM EST
Crazy cold temperatures = Less velocity.

Use a standard buffer as well as the right lube as suggested previously and you should be good to go.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 12:06:35 PM EST
I find listing in order the names of your favorite brands to answer what AR's do better in the cold is comical. While there may be some truth that a certain configuration (carbine, middy) may perform better, finding the right lubricant, and proper maintenance is the correct answer. I've had my 10.5" LMT out in single digit weather and it did fine. I've also had my 14.5" RRA carbine in honest sub zero temps back when RRA was the poster child for everything great in AR's. I'm sure it would perform just fine now even though it's not the flavor of the month. Both were lubed with lightweight motor oil, and with the exception of a chipped carbine stock (I dropped the RRA getting it out of the truck), everything was great.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 12:12:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Originally Posted By 7n6:
Originally Posted By afroney:
Agree that it might be your choice of lube. Haven't noticed any issues running my piston or DI AR's in sub zero weather. I was running BF CLP at the time. (about -12 f is the lowest I've gone shooting) They might cycle a little slow, but still run.

I do remember reading an interesting article that the Alaska State Patrol tested a handful of AR type rifles. I believe the IMI Galil was one of the top performers.




I own nothing but AK's now but miss having an AR at times- which is the reason for my inquiry. I didn't think someone could use patrolium based products in that kind of temp with an AR, which is why I used graphite. I used CLP in those temps and that's when I had issues. Now I think the fact that I was running all carbine length gas systems may have had something to do with it. The higher pressure from the shorter gas system may have been s culprit. If you didn't have issues what was your exact set up?

thanks,



The rifle wasnt the problem i was your lube, use something like car oil. Oil is perfectly fine to use in an ar and if it can withstand extreme lows youll be fine



Here are some upgrades added to most I owned: crane extractor insert (given), upgraded buffers to H2 or H3, McFarland one piece gas rings, chrome silicon return springs, CLP or graphite for lube which should in all reality function as well as engine oil. All except one rifle were carbine length- which I think carbine gas systems are the least reliable set up. I was getting an average of seven to ten or more failures per 300 rounds. The deciding factor to dump them was the time it took to clear a casing if the extractor ripped through the case rim. Something I noticed happened more frequently as temps dropped or the longer the rifle was exposed to the cold- maybe due to the denser air which may have increased pressure. My thoughts are to get a mid-length system to lower the pressure, with some upgrades, and perhaps some P-mags.

Just wanted to see who else is running maybe 5K per winter and what their set up might be before I decide to drop some coin on another AR. Also magazines you might have used, gas system length, types of buffers, or anything else to increase reliability.


Link Posted: 9/28/2011 12:15:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 12:21:49 PM EST by 7n6]
Originally Posted By Mounger:
Crazy cold temperatures = Less velocity.

Use a standard buffer as well as the right lube as suggested previously and you should be good to go.




Less velocity but higher pressure in those temps- which means heavier buffer to slow the action to avoid ripping through a less pliable case rim.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 12:42:37 PM EST
No lube and NiB coated upper and lower.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 12:46:39 PM EST
Nickel Boron BCG is the solution. The original AR was designed with and intended to have a coated carrier.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 1:09:16 PM EST
I've never had a problem in the cold with my mutt AR's. It's probably your lube choice and how much or how little lube you used. I've never seen good results from dry lubes in AR's.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 1:14:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By Blain:
Nickel Boron BCG is the solution. The original AR was designed with and intended to have a coated carrier.


I had a Colt with chromed bolt/carrier once that ran pretty good- maybe go with something similiar with a mid length set up for this winter for testing. Also will try the synthetic motor oil as suggested. Just wanted to see what you guys are running who live in the cold states.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 2:00:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 2:01:51 PM EST by OlCrow]

Originally Posted By 7n6:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Originally Posted By 7n6:
Originally Posted By afroney:
Agree that it might be your choice of lube. Haven't noticed any issues running my piston or DI AR's in sub zero weather. I was running BF CLP at the time. (about -12 f is the lowest I've gone shooting) They might cycle a little slow, but still run.

I do remember reading an interesting article that the Alaska State Patrol tested a handful of AR type rifles. I believe the IMI Galil was one of the top performers.




I own nothing but AK's now but miss having an AR at times- which is the reason for my inquiry. I didn't think someone could use patrolium based products in that kind of temp with an AR, which is why I used graphite. I used CLP in those temps and that's when I had issues. Now I think the fact that I was running all carbine length gas systems may have had something to do with it. The higher pressure from the shorter gas system may have been s culprit. If you didn't have issues what was your exact set up?

thanks,



The rifle wasnt the problem i was your lube, use something like car oil. Oil is perfectly fine to use in an ar and if it can withstand extreme lows youll be fine



Here are some upgrades added to most I owned: crane extractor insert (given), upgraded buffers to H2 or H3, McFarland one piece gas rings, chrome silicon return springs, CLP or graphite for lube which should in all reality function as well as engine oil. All except one rifle were carbine length- which I think carbine gas systems are the least reliable set up. I was getting an average of seven to ten or more failures per 300 rounds. The deciding factor to dump them was the time it took to clear a casing if the extractor ripped through the case rim. Something I noticed happened more frequently as temps dropped or the longer the rifle was exposed to the cold- maybe due to the denser air which may have increased pressure. My thoughts are to get a mid-length system to lower the pressure, with some upgrades, and perhaps some P-mags.

Just wanted to see who else is running maybe 5K per winter and what their set up might be before I decide to drop some coin on another AR. Also magazines you might have used, gas system length, types of buffers, or anything else to increase reliability.




I shoot my LMT in cold weather, standard buffer, M193 ammo and lubed lightly with Weapon Shield gun oil.

Upgrade to a H2 or H3??? How is that an upgrade? My LMT came with a standard buffer and it runs fine with it all year. Changing to a heavier buffer is at best an adjustment and only if it's actually needed. Actually the standard buffer would work best in real cold.

Your AR is only cold for the first couple of rounds so the cold means little to the AR since it's now sweating in the heat.

Link Posted: 9/28/2011 4:32:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By durabo:
No lube and NiB coated upper and lower.


This is what you want.
Nickel Boron coated receivers, complete NiB BCG, complete NiB lower parts group.
You can run it dry or use lightweight synthetic penetrating oil.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 5:33:51 PM EST
i have used breakfree CLP in sub zero conditions hunting with out issue in my DPMS, so I am not sure it's a manufacture issue and more of lubricant issue, any lubricant that doesn't thicken in the cold should work, as far as car oil synthetic would be a good way to go, as it doesn't break down due to heat and it doesn't gel up in the cold. I know my old diesel truck ran considerably smoother, and started better when I ran full synthetic in the winter.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 6:36:51 PM EST
M16's and variants have been used in the Arctic long before synthetics became popular.
In '70's we used LAW and tried some type of spray on dry lube. Then went back to LAW.

Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:57:20 PM EST
Another vote for the NiB treated receiver and BCG. This or switching to a Galil. Mine has never ever had a malfunction in the 21 years I've had it, even in extreme cold weather. Accurate as most of my ARs, better than a regular AK. Best of both worlds.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 6:35:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By M4A1:
Originally Posted By afroney:
Agree that it might be your choice of lube. Haven't noticed any issues running my piston or DI AR's in sub zero weather. I was running BF CLP at the time. (about -12 f is the lowest I've gone shooting) They might cycle a little slow, but still run.

I do remember reading an interesting article that the Alaska State Patrol tested a handful of AR type rifles. I believe the IMI Galil was one of the top performers.


The Galil is based off the AK platform. Nothing remotely close to an AR.


Most of the rifles tested were AR type. Thats what I meant. If memory serves me correctly the only two that didn't fail were AK types and outperformed the rest in the transition from warm to extreme cold (where condensation would cause the actions to completley freeze and lock up). One was a Galil and one was a Valmet. Wish I could find the article.

I owned a Galil knock-off. Nice concept, but poor build quality (as is the case of most Century products). I would like to own the orginial, but they are hard to find and pricey.

To the OP - Not sure what to tell you. Try using synthetic lube - I believe BF CLP would serve well in this purpose. Or stick with the AK. I've always been a bigger fan of them myself.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 7:18:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By 7n6:
Here are some upgrades added to most I owned: crane extractor insert (given), upgraded buffers to H2 or H3, McFarland one piece gas rings, chrome silicon return springs, CLP or graphite for lube which should in all reality function as well as engine oil. All except one rifle were carbine length- which I think carbine gas systems are the least reliable set up. I was getting an average of seven to ten or more failures per 300 rounds. The deciding factor to dump them was the time it took to clear a casing if the extractor ripped through the case rim. Something I noticed happened more frequently as temps dropped or the longer the rifle was exposed to the cold- maybe due to the denser air which may have increased pressure. My thoughts are to get a mid-length system to lower the pressure, with some upgrades, and perhaps some P-mags.

Just wanted to see who else is running maybe 5K per winter and what their set up might be before I decide to drop some coin on another AR. Also magazines you might have used, gas system length, types of buffers, or anything else to increase reliability.


I found your problem. Why did you "upgrade" your guns? Each "upgrade" should only be done to correct a problem. I would bet that a bone stock AR-15 from a reputable company will run just fine in the cold. It doesn't have anything to do with gas system length or buffer weight. Just buy a standard gun, and leave it alone. There are also specialty lubricants for extremely cold weather, I'd look into those. You could also get a NiB coated BCG and run it with light oil.

Never use graphite in an AR, it's bad.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 7:27:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By afroney:
Originally Posted By M4A1:
Originally Posted By afroney:
Agree that it might be your choice of lube. Haven't noticed any issues running my piston or DI AR's in sub zero weather. I was running BF CLP at the time. (about -12 f is the lowest I've gone shooting) They might cycle a little slow, but still run.

I do remember reading an interesting article that the Alaska State Patrol tested a handful of AR type rifles. I believe the IMI Galil was one of the top performers.


The Galil is based off the AK platform. Nothing remotely close to an AR.


Most of the rifles tested were AR type. Thats what I meant. If memory serves me correctly the only two that didn't fail were AK types and outperformed the rest in the transition from warm to extreme cold (where condensation would cause the actions to completley freeze and lock up). One was a Galil and one was a Valmet. Wish I could find the article.


I owned a Galil knock-off. Nice concept, but poor build quality (as is the case of most Century products). I would like to own the orginial, but they are hard to find and pricey.

To the OP - Not sure what to tell you. Try using synthetic lube - I believe BF CLP would serve well in this purpose. Or stick with the AK. I've always been a bigger fan of them myself.


That article was from the late 80s if I remember right. I have a copy somewhere. It can still be found on the web. It had a Mini 14, AR15, Galil, FNC or Valmet or maybe both I think. Maybe a couple more. You are right. The AK based rifles preformed much better with the Galil coming out on top. No surprise there. That article was the motivating factor in acquiring one. The Mini and AR15 failed miserably.

The Galil has a couple ergonomic shortcomings but reliability isn't one of them. I'm referring to real Galils, not the Century crap-clones of course. lol!
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 7:35:03 AM EST
I'm going to guess the main reason for failure was lack of lube or lack of a good lube.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 8:23:56 AM EST
DPMS 16" HBAR 5.56.
I use Miltech lube.
I have mandatory cold weather training, in northern MN
never had an issue


ok, maybe it wasn't -196 out, but it WAS -30ish with a -60ish wind chill, cold enough to F-up the sign.
that being said, the lube is what will make or break ANY weapon system in extremely cold weather.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 8:30:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By 7n6:
Originally Posted By afroney:
Agree that it might be your choice of lube. Haven't noticed any issues running my piston or DI AR's in sub zero weather. I was running BF CLP at the time. (about -12 f is the lowest I've gone shooting) They might cycle a little slow, but still run.

I do remember reading an interesting article that the Alaska State Patrol tested a handful of AR type rifles. I believe the IMI Galil was one of the top performers.




I own nothing but AK's now but miss having an AR at times- which is the reason for my inquiry. I didn't think someone could use patrolium based products in that kind of temp with an AR, which is why I used graphite. I used CLP in those temps and that's when I had issues. Now I think the fact that I was running all carbine length gas systems may have had something to do with it. The higher pressure from the shorter gas system may have been s culprit. If you didn't have issues what was your exact set up?

thanks,



What ammo were you using? If you were using steel-cased Com-Bloc ammo, then that's your problem. If brass, then I'd take the advice of the folks above. Hoping this winter to give my stable a good sub-20 below workout. I'll plan to use brass cased ammo though for this testing.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 8:38:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By 7n6:
Originally Posted By WI57:
With the proper lubricant any AR will run in a cold weather environment.

Use LAW.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile




I didn't find that to be true which is why I'm asking. I used graphite for lube at the time. I'm willing to try again because I did dump a $15K AR collection over those years due to this. I don't go when it's nice out- I wait till it's retarded cold and hit the range.


graphite should not be used on aluminum because under certain circumstances it will corrode it.


Link Posted: 9/29/2011 8:52:31 AM EST
Link to Alaska Test

For anyone interested...
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 9:25:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By PredatorWhacker:
Link to Alaska Test

For anyone interested...


Much appreciated.

I've always seen the Galil as the ultimate rifle. AK durability and reliability with better ergonomics. Plus a nifty bottle opener! Still doesn't have the ergonomics of a good AR 15, but I'm willing to over look that.

Even the crap Century I owned was a 2-3 MOA gun, with the factory Green Mountian barrel. Just didn't like the ejection problems and ramming out stuck casings. Also, there wasn't too many optics mounting options.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 9:47:58 AM EST
No problem.

Yeah, optics mounting always left a little to be desired with the Galil. I think MI now has a rail available but I haven't tried it. Can't say how good it is.

Link Posted: 9/29/2011 9:52:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By PredatorWhacker:
Link to Alaska Test

For anyone interested...

Alaska Test Article:
Upon receipt, each weapon was inspected and field stripped. Each
received a thorough cleaning to remove all oil and grease. The weapons
were not lubricated at all following the cleaning.


Welp, I'm gonna guess that's why the M16 and AR15 didn't do well. These guns love lube.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 5:08:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2011 5:11:10 PM EST by Matt_Krush]
where are you shooting at??
Ohio doesn't get that cold in the winter...

I live in northern MI and shoot in the winter and haven't had any problems...I know it gets colder and more snow than you see....
My RRA cycles a little slower especially with Wolf ammo...but it doesn't puke out...

If its below 15f and windy....the condensation ices up and that restricts some gas pressure....but never had it "freeze over"...just slowed the gun down a little..
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 5:13:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:

Originally Posted By PredatorWhacker:
Link to Alaska Test

For anyone interested...

Alaska Test Article:
Upon receipt, each weapon was inspected and field stripped. Each
received a thorough cleaning to remove all oil and grease. The weapons
were not lubricated at all following the cleaning.


Welp, I'm gonna guess that's why the M16 and AR15 didn't do well. These guns love lube.


Yep, you need to properly set up the rifle for it to work right ... thats like saying "None of the rifles that were left empty of ammunition would fire"
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 5:34:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:

Originally Posted By PredatorWhacker:
Link to Alaska Test

For anyone interested...

Alaska Test Article:
Upon receipt, each weapon was inspected and field stripped. Each
received a thorough cleaning to remove all oil and grease. The weapons
were not lubricated at all following the cleaning.


Welp, I'm gonna guess that's why the M16 and AR15 didn't do well. These guns love lube.


This is true. Don't get me wrong. I love my ARs. It's kind of a catch 22 with them in cold weather though. A little too much lube and you start losing firing pin velocity from thickening lube and getting light primer strikes. Not enough and they start short stroking or freeze up. Using the right lube might make a difference though. NiB and light lube would be my pick if forced to rely on a AR15 in extreme cold though. The above test was preformed to illustrate the weaknesses of the available platforms in less than desirable circumstances. It did that well. If I remember right the article was quite a bit longer than what was offered above. The original was more detailed. I think they acually broke the safety off the Mini 14 if I remember right.

As we all know the AR is much more reliable than people give it credit for. That said, about the only time I've had a quality AR fail to function is in extreme cold. And that was with ARs stored in optimum circumstances.

The Galil however is built like a tank and could probably be ran over by one and still function. This in addition to having the same accuracy potential as my ARs. It's always amazed me. I kick myself in the behind for not buying more when they were cheap. Cheap being around $1000 when I got mine. Seemed like a lot at the time. Hindsight 20/20. lol!

Link Posted: 9/29/2011 5:45:47 PM EST
seems like you really need a battle rifle not an AR
bigger parts, looser tolerances and more powerful rounds ...like an FAL or M1A
FAL would be my first choice

I know you're set on an AR but the mission dictates our tools
if youre going to drive in the mud or snow in this case drive a truck not a sports car
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 5:59:06 PM EST
Synthetic ATF is a good cold weather AR lube.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 6:06:55 PM EST
I broke my Armalite M15A2 in at 5F, ran like a top. I've never needed anything different than CLP.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 6:32:31 PM EST
I can't say for sure that it works well in the cold. But all I use is Rem-Oil and it has never let me down from pistols, shotguns, to AR's. It is thin and even though it looks like it "dries off" it doesn't. It soaks in and leaves a slick Teflon coating. I think a lot of people over-think the lube situation because there are ummpteen thousand choices out there. Just because something has fancy branding and ridiculous claims does not make it superior. I think a lot of the stuff out there is far too thick, and is unnecessary to protect your rifle. All that being said I won't claim what I use is the best, and I won't claim it would be the best for you. I can only say it has worked for me. I could be wrong and it certainly wouldn't be my first time.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 6:45:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By foursixty:
I can't say for sure that it works well in the cold. But all I use is Rem-Oil and it has never let me down from pistols, shotguns, to AR's. It is thin and even though it looks like it "dries off" it doesn't. It soaks in and leaves a slick Teflon coating. I think a lot of people over-think the lube situation because there are ummpteen thousand choices out there. Just because something has fancy branding and ridiculous claims does not make it superior. I think a lot of the stuff out there is far too thick, and is unnecessary to protect your rifle. All that being said I won't claim what I use is the best, and I won't claim it would be the best for you. I can only say it has worked for me. I could be wrong and it certainly wouldn't be my first time.


i'v seen rem-oil lock up a glock 19 and an 870 in winter training. would not be good for cold weather shooting.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 6:51:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By J75player:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
I can't say for sure that it works well in the cold. But all I use is Rem-Oil and it has never let me down from pistols, shotguns, to AR's. It is thin and even though it looks like it "dries off" it doesn't. It soaks in and leaves a slick Teflon coating. I think a lot of people over-think the lube situation because there are ummpteen thousand choices out there. Just because something has fancy branding and ridiculous claims does not make it superior. I think a lot of the stuff out there is far too thick, and is unnecessary to protect your rifle. All that being said I won't claim what I use is the best, and I won't claim it would be the best for you. I can only say it has worked for me. I could be wrong and it certainly wouldn't be my first time.


i'v seen rem-oil lock up a glock 19 and an 870 in winter training. would not be good for cold weather shooting.


See what I mean?? Haha. Good to know that someone has first-hand experience.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 7:16:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By foursixty:
Originally Posted By J75player:
Originally Posted By foursixty:
I can't say for sure that it works well in the cold. But all I use is Rem-Oil and it has never let me down from pistols, shotguns, to AR's. It is thin and even though it looks like it "dries off" it doesn't. It soaks in and leaves a slick Teflon coating. I think a lot of people over-think the lube situation because there are ummpteen thousand choices out there. Just because something has fancy branding and ridiculous claims does not make it superior. I think a lot of the stuff out there is far too thick, and is unnecessary to protect your rifle. All that being said I won't claim what I use is the best, and I won't claim it would be the best for you. I can only say it has worked for me. I could be wrong and it certainly wouldn't be my first time.


i'v seen rem-oil lock up a glock 19 and an 870 in winter training. would not be good for cold weather shooting.


See what I mean?? Haha. Good to know that someone has first-hand experience.


And I use it on my shotguns out in the duck marsh in November, with wind and snow blowing and for the late goose season in January....never locked up a Remington 1187....
Again...Michigan weather at that time can vary from 0-45 degrees f...with rain, snow, wind and mud...and this is experience over 26yrs.

I wouldn't say the locking up was solely the oil + cold weather.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 8:17:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By 7n6:
I am not new to AR's, owned quite a few but sold them all because I could never find one that was truly reliable. I am sitting on a pile of magazines so I may buy a couple more. Now I've run probably 75K rounds through the AR's I owned over a decade or so. I owned several LMT's, a few Colt's, a Bushmaster, and some guns that I built over those years. I've tried piston guns, they run clean but would sometimes rip through the case rim even when using H2 or H3 buffers and generally when it was really cold outside.

What I want to do is build or buy a rifle that would be ultimately reliable in all weather conditions. More accurately, who actually runs their AR's in sub zero temps, what are your specific builds, and what type of lube? I've run Colt's, LMT's, and piston guns with graphite in those temps but none ran perfectly- such that I ended up dumping my entire AR collection. Perhaps I missed something and am wanting to see if there are better options should I get back into AR's again.

Thanks,




I havent had any problems shooting a quality AR15 in the winter in IN.



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