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Posted: 9/27/2005 6:31:51 AM EDT
While I was home on vacation I heard about a new gunshop in town. Needed some scope rings (but somehow managed to walk out with a new 870, still haven't figured that out) so I stopped by to check 'em out. While there I had a very informative conversation with the owner. Apparentley the AR-15/M16 was designed around a 52 grain bullet, hence the 1/12 twist. All military bullets were really 52 grains until they came up with the 62 grain bullet. The transition to 62 grain bullets is why all military barrels have a 1/9 twist now. Thought y'all would want to know.
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Posted: 9/27/2005 6:34:53 AM EDT
[#1]
edited...........nevermind. Thougt I was still in the hometown forum.
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Posted: 9/27/2005 6:43:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Well at least he was sort-of vaguely in the right direction. I had somebody tell me that we switched to the A2 and green tip ammo in 'Nam be cause we were sick of the VC shooting captured ammo back at us through their AKs. See, the old ammo works in an AK, but the green tip stuff won't. |
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Posted: 9/27/2005 6:49:13 AM EDT
[#3]
the military uses 1/7 twist barrels
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Posted: 9/27/2005 7:04:12 AM EDT
[#4]
BS! Gunshop man told me so! And he was on the Navy rifle team for 11 of his 22 years, so he should know. |
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Posted: 9/27/2005 7:05:44 AM EDT
[#5]
I think that's the point that 53vortec was trying to make about how ignorant the gun store know-it-alls are... 
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Posted: 9/27/2005 7:20:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Not all off them are stupid my home town guy told me I couldn't pick up a 6920 not for sale to civilians I told him I guess I'l have to re-up so I can get one 
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Posted: 9/27/2005 8:10:56 AM EDT
[#7]
I quess that one flew right over my head |
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Posted: 9/27/2005 8:19:01 AM EDT
[#8]
Sorry to say, the new AKs fire the 5.56, green-tips too...But you need to use the AK mags with the green followers. It's true. |
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Posted: 9/27/2005 8:19:31 AM EDT
[#9]
So the guy was a little misinformed and maybe got his facts mixed up. It doesnt make him ignorant or a know it all. I am sure you have screwed up reciting a fact once before. It doesnt make you ignorant. |
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Posted: 9/27/2005 8:31:01 AM EDT
[#10]
Yes it does. |
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Posted: 9/27/2005 8:43:57 AM EDT
[#11]
The A2 and 62 grain "green tips" were never produced during the 'Nam era. The VC's could not shoot back captured ammo through their AKs since AKs at that time only shot 7.62x39 ammo. The new AK's in 5.56 can shoot both 55 grainers and 62 grainers.
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Posted: 9/27/2005 8:49:15 AM EDT
[#12]
A bit touchy aren't you. You must be one of those gun store know-it-alls...  Just kidding...  Seriously, if I don't know for sure about something I'll keep my mouth shut and if I'm pressed for an answer I'll always say that I'm I'n not sure and you need to verify the info. No doubt I've made a mistake now and then but I never try to pass myself as some expert. I think most of us know the type that the original poster is talking about we see them at gun stores and gun shows all the time. It's the guys that are always talking trying to impress folks with all the bullshit they are spouting. Many times those folks are in fact ignorant know-it-alls... 
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Posted: 9/27/2005 8:56:33 AM EDT
[#13]
LIES! AKs could shoot 5.56, it just wasn't quite as accurate! 
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Posted: 9/27/2005 9:01:35 AM EDT
[#14]
ive heard much, MUCH worse in a gunshop.
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Posted: 9/27/2005 9:03:57 AM EDT
[#15]
That's why when i finally become a gunstore owner, i'm going to sell books too. If you want my knowledge, your going to have to pay for it. Just take a look in the fiction section...
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Posted: 9/27/2005 9:15:09 AM EDT
[#16]
For what it's worth, I tried to give the guy the benefit of the doubt until I said "um, I'm pretty sure the military M193 load was 55 grains" and was swiftly corrected. That's just what the boxes said, you see!
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Posted: 9/27/2005 9:41:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Bet you didn't know that AR15/M16s are recoil operated. Guy who does the light 'smith work at a local shop assured me of this. They sell ARs too.
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Posted: 9/27/2005 9:50:02 AM EDT
[#18]
Imagine all the extra money the AR manufacturers made by adding the unnecessary gas tube... 
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Posted: 9/27/2005 2:24:09 PM EDT
[#19]
.
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Posted: 9/27/2005 2:29:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Exactly.... beware the man with a low post count, he's probably just paying attention, LOL If people only talked when they were sure they knew the answer, these forums would have 1/10th the posts and besides, he's smiling all the way to the bank after selling an extra 870 that day, while just sitt'n around, shooting the sh*t. |
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Posted: 9/27/2005 2:42:00 PM EDT
[#21]
You can actually fire 5.56 ammo out of a 7.62x39 AK-47.
You have to drop the bolt on the round several times to bang it hard enough in the chamber to set the shoulder back. The bolt will eventually go into battery after 2 or 3 bolt drops. The round will fire fine, but the case will swell up to meet the larger chamber and usually cracks. The bullet rattles down the bore and the gun will not cycle or extract the case. So the real answer is YES, you can fire 5.56 ammo out of a 7.62x39 AK-47. |
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Posted: 9/27/2005 2:55:28 PM EDT
[#22]
you can also kill people if you want to or molest children. we're not talking about what-ifs or technical feasibility. We're talking about whether it can be done "repeatedly with effect"
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Posted: 9/27/2005 3:19:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Yeah, 'cause I shoot 5.56 through my 7.62 AK47 all the time...gul dern, the things people say... 
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Posted: 9/27/2005 7:39:33 PM EDT
[#24]
This is why I was so surprised when I went to a gun show for the first time looking for AR parts.
Some of the stuff I heard: 1. These USA Mags are what the Army is now using, the steel body are more reliable than the aluminum crap which wears out(I bought 3, F me.) 2. Me asking: Whats the differnece between the Wolf ammo and the Winchester? Answer: "Wolf is for the drums, they fit better than the brass ammo" 3. This happened right down from Roseco(Robbie)'s stand at the gun show. "Why do you want Rock River Stuff, that crap is made by commies and break all the time. Unlike these Olympic arms rifles) |
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Posted: 9/27/2005 7:46:42 PM EDT
[#25]
I really try to know as much as I can working at the gunstore, but I wont BS you. If I dont know, Ill tell you, and ask someone else. We arent all conartist boobs.
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Posted: 9/27/2005 8:21:31 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 9/27/2005 9:36:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Oh that's nothing...
How about the time when a dealer told me that SS109 has a 'depleted uranium core'. [I guess he thinks that makes it a Nu-ku-lar Weapon?] Or how about the AK freak that told me "not to buy one of those damned AR-15s, if you run out of batteries, it's worthless!". [ummmmkay....] Or how about the classic "We should adopt the M14 as our rifle again, we'll be able to use the bad guys ammo that way." to which, after I point out that the M14 is 7.62x51 and the AK-47 is 7.62x39, they reply "The shorter case doesn't matter, it'll still fire it." [I guess the M14 doesn't care if you feed it bullets that are bigger than the inside diameter of the barrel].God help these people after the Zombie invasion  . |
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Posted: 9/27/2005 10:01:33 PM EDT
[#28]
You'll find these types of BS artist knuckleheads at the local gunshop, but you'll find them more often at gun shows and pawn shops that carry firearms. They are just peddlers trying to make a quick buck; they could just as easily be selling car stereos and would have about the same amount of knowledge on the subject. Usually they can get away with rambling on with their untruths, as most of their customer base is going to be more ignorant on the subject than they are.
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Posted: 9/27/2005 10:49:34 PM EDT
[#29]
I go to a couple of gun shops here locally. The guys that work at both of them are decent people and do know what they're talking about. I like having local dealers so I do what I can to support them.
Gun shows are where the real action is. There's one this weekend and I can't wait to go. Even if I don't find a deal it's always entertaining. I need to start keeping score. I've got some basics of my scoring system worked out already: overhearing "This knife has a blood groove" - 5 points overhearing "M16 was made to wound people" - 20 points overhearing "the SKS will shoot through schools/mountains/Hillary Clinton's ankles" - 20 points any sign or sticker reading PRE BAN!!!!! - 50 points beat up S&W 29 next to a picture of Dirty Harry for $1500 - 20 points Anarchist Cookbook - 15 points expired gas mask with opened, expired filters - 20 points .30-30 lever action with scope "sniper rifle" - 50 points Chinese ACORG/AYMEPOINT scope knockoff for $39.95 - 30 points - 10 points bonus if mounted on a blackpowder revolver decent custom 10/22 for $5000 - 50 points the blowgun guy in the corner shooting balloons with a blowgun ALL DAY LONG - 20 points actually eating a $5 soybean cheeseburger at the snack stand - 15 points actually talking to the $5 chinese survival knife guy - 10 points per minute talking to the $50 chinese switchblade "kit" guy - 20 points - no bonus for buying one, you're just out 50 bucks. $300 deer antler handle, engine turned blade, laced leather sheath custom knife guy - 20 points - 50 bonus points if his wife does the really bad scrimshaw of wolves and indians on the butt of the knife 450 pound guy dressed like a Marine - 30 points - 200 bonus points if you kick his ass. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:49:08 AM EDT
[#30]
I just went to a gun show in Ft Laud, FL and deliberately avoided 'lenghty conversations' BUT NOW I am also going to keep track! Nice work HarryStone keep em coming! headbang.gif headbang.gif hail2.gif hail.gif hail2.gif hail.gif hail2.gif hail.gif The knife creates the blood groove ........... right? |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:01:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Excellent...gotta love gun shows! I fell victim once, you forgot the LULA ad pitch from gunshow salesman "This is the best thing ever!! I use mine all the time...it'll cut your reloading time by at least half!! unload your mags in seconds!!!" (forget why you'd HAVE to unload a mag, much less why not shoot it empty) I bought one ...sold it for ten bucks a couple months later.
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:22:48 AM EDT
[#32]
My BIL decided, after watching the Katrina aftermath on tv, that he would get himself a firearm.
He asked me if the GUNSHOW would be a good place to bone up on firearm knowledge.
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:23:10 AM EDT
[#33]
HarryStone,
You left out the guy who's always in the back selling swords with dragons on the handles. You know the guy, lecturing some 16 year old kid on how he can use a huge 6 bladed brass knuckle monstrosity for self defense. I didn't make this up. I really overheard this! |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:31:10 AM EDT
[#34]
That is a good one, but how bout this, the last gun show I went to had a little old lady I now refer to as Stun Gun Granny. She was selling stun guns and called them "2 day" and "3 day" and "4 day". The thing about the days was how long it would put someone in the hospital if they were hit with one.
God I can't wait for the gun show this weekend. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:32:12 AM EDT
[#35]
Tag for the scoring system and a hijack. Many of us really like the LULA. I've had to download mags for carbine classes and I've had to load mags like a mutha during those classes and the LULA just makes life easy. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:34:55 AM EDT
[#36]
That's right...heard it at my gunshop. They just rattle a bit in the chamber, 'till the bolt goes forward. That's why centerfire is so important. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:35:47 AM EDT
[#37]
Always worth the $5 at the door whether you find anything to buy or not! he
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:44:19 AM EDT
[#38]
Also the lady who sells Beef Jerky & Jams....find out WTF they have to do with guns and you get 50 points. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:53:56 AM EDT
[#40]
ask her for a demo - 5pts (for asking) she performs the demo - 30 pts performs demo on husband - additional 75 pts (demo on you = -200pts HarryStone. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:06:36 AM EDT
[#41]
all good stories and true, i have worked in local
gunshops for 9+ years and have heard how the russian army uses the saiga rifles as sniper rifles now since the other siper rifles they were using made in the forties? local competitor to me, but it does go both ways i have yet to meet a vet name your war who actually cooked or typed everyone was a sniper or walked point with a shotgun. you just listen and enjoy. bill |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:13:46 AM EDT
[#42]
I'll do that, and sorry for hijacking this thread. Here's the new thread in General |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:16:34 AM EDT
[#43]
Dace - at best it makes him ignorant. Must be nice to have a job where one can spew crap and never have to worry about getting sued...... hmmm sounds kinda like a public employee, but I digress. Good luck |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:27:11 AM EDT
[#44]
The guy at the Dallas guns how that had an illegal stg58 kit FAL (during the ban) with some kind of "special" finish on it. Played dumb and told his I tought the flash hider was illegal. He says, "son, lots of things are illega but that's OK, Ihave the legal on under the table. Oh yea, price $1500.00.
Or the guy at the place I used to work at who cornered me after the ban went away and wanted to know if he could legally get his 30 round AR mags and start using them again becasue they had been illegal during the ban and he didn' twnat to get caught with them? |
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Posted: 9/29/2005 11:07:24 AM EDT
[#45]
Some of the worst crap comes form the guys who claim have been snipers or armorers in the military. I got what had to have been the record for longest string of pure crap from an "armorer" at a fairly well-known gunshop just outside of Dallas.
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Posted: 9/29/2005 11:16:11 AM EDT
[#46]
talking to the purveyor of "As Seen On TV!" products +10 points(for being friendly)
buying the combination: eyebrow/ nosehair /vegetable slicer -30 points (for being a gullible sucker) or the guy whose table is lined with weapons along with obnoxious sign reading "look but don't touch" -5points |
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Posted: 9/29/2005 11:34:08 AM EDT
[#47]
Well Im glad you dont have boobs hehe what store do you work at and what city? |
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Posted: 9/29/2005 12:22:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Cheaper than Dirt in Fort Worth. |
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Posted: 9/29/2005 12:43:58 PM EDT
[#49]
If not LULA, what do you use to load loose ammo in your mags? Or do you just have1/2/3 mags? Those of us who load 30-50 mags for range day know why a fast loader/unloader is a good thing to have. |
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Posted: 9/29/2005 12:55:39 PM EDT
[#50]
My local gun shop people are fairly smart.
But the gun shows......DAMN....I'd get a 850 easy on HarryStone's chart. |
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