Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 7/7/2005 11:08:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/7/2005 11:08:42 PM EDT by glockguy40]
Please forgive my noobness... but what exactly is the definition of a midlength? Is it the handguard or the barrel, or both that makes a midlength a midlength?

Thanks
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 11:09:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/7/2005 11:10:07 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
Its the gas system, which is slightly longer than carbine length.

Link Posted: 7/7/2005 11:10:17 PM EDT
thx lumpy
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 11:22:34 PM EDT
middy's kick ass...its almost like a dissy but not, and you can put a bayonet on there with no modification or adapters.
Link Posted: 7/8/2005 12:09:05 AM EDT
What are the advantages & disadvantages to a midlength compared to a carbine length?

hk45shooter
Link Posted: 7/8/2005 12:31:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By terrafirma:
middy's kick ass...its almost like a dissy but not, and you can put a bayonet on there with no modification or adapters.



There's an option nobody can live without.
Link Posted: 7/8/2005 3:32:56 AM EDT
From this aritcle: Armalite Mid-Length Carbine and A.R.M.S. Mid-Length S.I.R. System

..."The Armalite Mid-Length Carbine was designed specifically to overcome the long-known gas system-related problems associated with the standard M4/M4A1, problems that have been plaguing end-users for years. These include greatly accelerated gas port erosion, , excess heat, higher operating gas pressures, melted and blown-out gas rings, and an open/iron sight radius that's too short. None of these are good things on a field combat weapon.

So, how does the the Mid-Length Carbine mitigate these problems? The Mid-Length Carbine moves...

the front sight base/gas block 2 inches forward from its position on the M4/M4A1 Carbine. This puts the Armalite Mid-Length Carbine's gas port mid-length between that of the M4/M4A1 carbine and full-length AR-15/M16 rifle, thus the Mid-Length Carbine's name.

The 20-inch barrelled AR-15/M16's gas port is located 12.5" forward of the chamber and 7.5" back from the muzzle. The M4/M4A1 Carbine's gas port sits 7.5" in front of the chamber and 8.5" back from the muzzle. The Armalite Mid-Length Carbine places its gas port 9.5" in front of the chamber and 6.5" behind the muzzle.

All this serves to put the Armalite Mid-Length Carbine's gas port closer to the full-length AR-15/M16's optimum operating pressure curve allowed by its 20" barrel. This results in less gas port erosion, reduced heat, slower bolt velocity, improved extraction, and a longer sight radius."...

In short it has no disadvantages. It's only short coming presently is there are a limited # of barrels choices currently available but the choices are constantly growing



Link Posted: 7/8/2005 5:18:07 AM EDT
I've always thought the midlength was a neat idea but didn't get too excited about it until a friend was buying his first AR and went with an Armalite M15A4. After trying his rifle out and comparing it to my favorite AR, I was really sold on the midlength concept.

In fact, my last barrel with a carbine length gas system is on the EE right now.
Link Posted: 7/8/2005 6:15:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/8/2005 6:27:57 AM EDT
I switched from my M4gery to a midlength... much smoother cycling and (IMHO) inherently more reliable. You need one NOW:

Link Posted: 7/10/2005 4:55:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By terrafirma:
middy's kick ass...its almost like a dissy but not, and you can put a bayonet on there with no modification or adapters.



The defensereview.com article quoted above says the gas port is located 7.5" back from the muzzle on the M16 and M4 barrels, but 6.5" behind the muzzle on the midlength. Does this mean the ring on the bayonet guard sits 1" futher forward on the flash surpressor than normal? If so, how secure is it?

Link Posted: 7/10/2005 5:21:25 PM EDT
One of these days I'll stop buying handguns and I'll put optics and a carry handle on these 2.

Both RRA Middies put together by me.

Link Posted: 7/10/2005 5:24:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By von_landstuhl:

Originally Posted By terrafirma:
middy's kick ass...its almost like a dissy but not, and you can put a bayonet on there with no modification or adapters.



The defensereview.com article quoted above says the gas port is located 7.5" back from the muzzle on the M16 and M4 barrels, but 6.5" behind the muzzle on the midlength. Does this mean the ring on the bayonet guard sits 1" futher forward on the flash surpressor than normal? If so, how secure is it?




It's very secure. The A2 flashhider is a strong piece and will stand up to a lot of abuse. Just ask anyone in the Military with an old standard GI sling. When the sling comes undone the weapon falls directly on the flashhider everytime. I've never seen one break yet. You figure you have an extra 1 inch of blade to use as well.
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 3:59:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By von_landstuhl:

Originally Posted By terrafirma:
middy's kick ass...its almost like a dissy but not, and you can put a bayonet on there with no modification or adapters.



The defensereview.com article quoted above says the gas port is located 7.5" back from the muzzle on the M16 and M4 barrels, but 6.5" behind the muzzle on the midlength. Does this mean the ring on the bayonet guard sits 1" futher forward on the flash surpressor than normal? If so, how secure is it?




Yes - that is correct.

14.5" M4 barrel w/M9


16" Middy w/M9


As you can see, the bayo does protrude an extra on a middy than it would on a 14.5" or 20" barrel. This really bothers some people and I don't know why Armalite decided to do it this way but honestly, I don't see it as a big deal. IMO, a bayo would work just as well like this as it does in it's normal position and if anything, this arrangement gives you an extra inch of blade sticking out which could only be a good thing!
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 4:15:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twl:
Even though the difference in gas port location is only 2 inches, which may seem like a very small difference, is enough to cause the port pressure to be reduced to almost half of the carbine port pressure. It is significant.

This really does improve the situation with gas port erosion, and also to some extent helps the timing issues that can plague the carbine system.

Extraction reliability, and overall reliability should increase with a midlength system, over a carbine system.

I don't think the sight radius difference is significant enough to mention, but it is a little bit longer.

With the attendant longer handguards, and the FSB moved forward too, there is a shift of the weight slightly forward, and typically a slight increase in weight because of longer handguards.

At this time, there is a pretty good selection of railed handguards in the midlength size, but for a while it was pretty slim pickings. Still a little sparse on finding gas tubes everywhere for a midlength, but they can be gotten.

What would really be nice, would be if someone would come out with a midlength system that could use all the carbine parts, and still have the midlength advantages.
Maybe somebody will do that soon.



+1

TWL saved me a lot of typing...
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 4:18:36 AM EDT
I'm not doubting the accolades of the mid-length but I have failed to experience the problems that it is correcting. Despite this, I have a mid-length project in process

Bomber
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 6:28:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2005 6:35:17 AM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 6:32:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:
I'm not doubting the accolades of the mid-length but I have failed to experience the problems that it is correcting. Despite this, I have a mid-length project in process

Bomber



If some of the problems are a slightly harsher felt recoil, and more erosion of gas ports, and slightly more heat, etc - you might not notice them as "problems" per se, but might notice a slight improvement with the middy over the standard carbine/M4.

I never had any problems with 16" carbines either, and still have one - but I like my midlength a little better.

Looks better too
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 6:56:31 AM EDT
Hey guys,


Thannks for taking the time to re-enforce the benefits. Like I said, I wasn't doubting them and they make perfect intuitive sense despite the fact I am a mechanical engineer.

I have to agree that the rifle length FF tube looks great on a carbine length barrel. If it operates better then I'm really all for it. In fact I'm piecing together a midlength gun right now. I'm saving for a 1:7 twist midlength barrel although the twl's post has peaked my interest. I currently have a carbine length heavy profile, 1:8.5 twist barrel on a RR upper and a LaRue rifle length FF tube and low profile gas block.

twl....when you can will you provide add'l details?

Bomber
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 7:49:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 8:11:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 8:29:41 PM EDT
Here's my guess twl

Your solution is to keep all the carbine parts EXCEPT...a new gas block.

The "old" gas blocks have the gas hole drilled at the rear barrel band; yours will be drilled at the front, and perhaps the gas block itself slightly lengthened, and of course the gas hole in the barrel drilled further out.

This is such a common sense solution I bet the Armalite guys will be kicking eachother in the pants for not having come up with it themselves. This is a MUCH simpler solution with only one unique part.

Am I right? I've been designing guns since I was a teenager...
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 8:37:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chris157c:
One of these days I'll stop buying handguns and I'll put optics and a carry handle on these 2.

Both RRA Middies put together by me.




Nice guns....is that an A2 buttstock or A1?
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 4:41:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2005 4:47:05 AM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 8:03:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StormSurge:
Here's my guess twl

Your solution is to keep all the carbine parts EXCEPT...a new gas block.

The "old" gas blocks have the gas hole drilled at the rear barrel band; yours will be drilled at the front, and perhaps the gas block itself slightly lengthened, and of course the gas hole in the barrel drilled further out.

This is such a common sense solution I bet the Armalite guys will be kicking eachother in the pants for not having come up with it themselves. This is a MUCH simpler solution with only one unique part.

Am I right? I've been designing guns since I was a teenager...



I'm sorry but I do not see this concept as a better solution or even as a "just as good" of a solution. Lets look at this point-by-point.

The Armalite solution takes 3 special parts, the barrel (because of the gas hole location) the gas tube and the handguards. Seems to me your solution would also take three special parts. Barrel (because of the gas hole location), gas tube (maybe I'm not fully getting it but I don't see how a standard carbine gas tube would work with an FSB that has it's gas hole drilled 2" forward and TWL's post seem to confirm this?) and a new FSB\gas block.

Maybe it's just me but I would rather replace a set of handguards then an FSB\gas block? Either way, I don't see any parts advanatge to either design. Besides, what's all this crap about buying special parts for a mid-length? If you are building a new AR, you have to buy a barrel, gas tube and handguards regardless of what configuration you are building. Before you had to buy either "Rifle" length or "Carbine" length gas tube and handguards (depending obviously on setup). Now you have one more choice. What's the big deal?

So let's look at the functional advantages. Let's assume that both systems correct the negatives associated with the carbine gas system listed above equally. That being the case, the TWL design stops there. The Armalite design also adds a longer sight radius, handguards that covers more of the barrel and also provide more real estate for accessory mounting and also allows for the use of a standard bayonet. Are these major advantages? Well that's certainly debatable but they are advantages.

I respect and admire people like TWL for thinking outside of the box and trying to be innovative but unless I'm seriously missing something, I don't think anybody at Armalite (or anyplace else) is going to be kicking themselves for not thinking of this first. (This also assumes that they in fact did not already think of this (and maybe even tried) it before deciding that moving a standard FSB forward 2" is a better solution?)

Mind you, this is just my $.02 on it
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 8:04:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
Nice guns....is that an A2 buttstock or A1?



Not to talk for Chris but I happen to know that is a CavArms C1 (A1 length) stock.
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 8:37:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cgv69:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
Nice guns....is that an A2 buttstock or A1?



Not to talk for Chris but I happen to know that is a CavArms C1 (A1 length) stock.



cool, thanks, I was thinking about putting an A1 stock on my next (midlength) AR build.
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 8:38:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2005 9:16:29 AM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 12:37:36 PM EDT
TWL

Thank for the follow up. I'm sure you've probably already divulged more then you planned to so we'll save this for another day.
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 12:44:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twl:
Cvg69,

I guess it depends on an individual's idea of advantages.

I agree that when buying a new gun, it can be configured any way you want, at probably no difference in cost.

When changing a gun over to midlength from a carbine, it may be different in cost, and especially so if you already have bought an expensive railed FF system for your carbine previously, and then have to buy a midlength one when you decide to change. With the MGI system, you could still use your carbine railed-FF system without having to buy another.

Also, for every user who prefers the added weight, barrel coverage by the handguard, additional rail space for options, and added sight radius of the currently available midlength systems, there are some who would prefer lower weight, don't need alot of rail space, use CQB optics(so sight radius is backup only), and don't burn themselves with the barrel anyhow.

In any case, the new gun issue is almost moot, because as I already admitted, there is not going to be any cost issue one way or the other for a new midlength or carbine, so the MGI system would primarily be for those who wanted to add this to their guns, and the MGI QCB owners who routinely change barrel systems on their weapon. People who have costly carbine rail systems or have a QCB system will have a lower cost of reconfiguration with this system.

Also, when the kit comes out, it will be possible to reconfigure your existing carbine barrel to a midlength, which is totally not possible with any other system available today.

Regarding the gas tube, we use a carbine gas tube, but it is slightly modified. In a pinch, a user could easily do the mod himself, as we do not add length or any other major changes.

For those who already have midlength systems from other mfrs, I can see that it might not be desirable to change to the MGI Midlength. That is perfectly fine, and they already have what they want.

Nothing is perfect for everyone.
We offer something different, that has its own advantages for the people who need/want it, compared with the other units available elsewhere.

For those wishing to convert a carbine to a midlength, this is a very attractive package, which could be less expensive to do, depending upon the system in question.

If we decide to make military style FSB's with this gas config(which we are contemplating) it would be possible to maintain the true M4 "look" of the barrel/gas system that the M4 has, and still benefit from midlength gas system, which could not be done any other way.

For a conversion kit application to a carbine barrel, this would easily be the least expensive way to get into midlength, since the kit will not require the purchase of a barrel, nor different handguards, and only the FSB and modded gastube would be required for those who install the kit.

Since we will offer various ways to purchase this item in barrel assembly or in kit form, it will add choices to the market for those buyers looking for another way to get to their midlength goals.

Regarding the bayonet, our FSB will have a bayo lug, and will allow use of the bayo on a 14.5" barrel, but not a 16", just as the carbne systems are now.

It would probably be best for us to return the thread to the normal subject of midlengths in general, but if anyone has questions, I am always available by IM, Email, or Phone.



You're a stand up guy in my book. You handled the hostility with grace and dignity.

props

Bomber
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 1:12:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2005 1:13:01 PM EDT by Stryfe]

Originally Posted By thebomber:
You're a stand up guy in my book. You handled the hostility with grace and dignity.

props

Bomber


Respect and Admire are not two words that I normally associate with hostility.
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 4:35:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stryfe:

Originally Posted By thebomber:
You're a stand up guy in my book. You handled the hostility with grace and dignity.

props

Bomber


Respect and Admire are not two words that I normally associate with hostility.



Whatever dude....I found it to be unecessarily pointed and curt. It could have been a little less sharp. The respect and admire thrown in at the end came across as disingenuous. MHO.


Bomber
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 4:55:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:

Originally Posted By Stryfe:

Originally Posted By thebomber:
You're a stand up guy in my book. You handled the hostility with grace and dignity.

props

Bomber


Respect and Admire are not two words that I normally associate with hostility.



Whatever dude....I found it to be unecessarily pointed and curt. It could have been a little less sharp. The respect and admire thrown in at the end came across as disingenuous. MHO.


Bomber



Whatever dude is correct. I am a "Straight-to-the-point" kind of person but my post was not meant to be rude or inflammatory. I try to write exactly what I mean but sometimes my posts are misinterpreted. Regrettable but I've come to realize that this is the Internet and people tend to want to read things "into" what you write. Like you said, whatever
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 5:19:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cgv69:

Originally Posted By thebomber:

Originally Posted By Stryfe:

Originally Posted By thebomber:
You're a stand up guy in my book. You handled the hostility with grace and dignity.

props

Bomber


Respect and Admire are not two words that I normally associate with hostility.



Whatever dude....I found it to be unecessarily pointed and curt. It could have been a little less sharp. The respect and admire thrown in at the end came across as disingenuous. MHO.


Bomber



Whatever dude is correct. I am a "Straight-to-the-point" kind of person but my post was not meant to be rude or inflammatory. I try to write exactly what I mean but sometimes my posts are misinterpreted. Regrettable but I've come to realize that this is the Internet and people tend to want to read things "into" what you write. Like you said, whatever



Whatever your "whatever" on my "whatever" .

I understand about being straight to the point. I have that problem in verbal communications. Typing adds enough delay for me to control it better on the internet.

Sorry for mis-interpreting your intentions. I am however, still impressed with how TWL handled your objections...mmm Maybe I should have substituted "objections" for "hostility". mea culpa.

Bomber
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 6:56:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:

Originally Posted By cgv69:

Originally Posted By thebomber:

Originally Posted By Stryfe:

Originally Posted By thebomber:
You're a stand up guy in my book. You handled the hostility with grace and dignity.

props

Bomber


Respect and Admire are not two words that I normally associate with hostility.



Whatever dude....I found it to be unecessarily pointed and curt. It could have been a little less sharp. The respect and admire thrown in at the end came across as disingenuous. MHO.


Bomber



Whatever dude is correct. I am a "Straight-to-the-point" kind of person but my post was not meant to be rude or inflammatory. I try to write exactly what I mean but sometimes my posts are misinterpreted. Regrettable but I've come to realize that this is the Internet and people tend to want to read things "into" what you write. Like you said, whatever



Whatever your "whatever" on my "whatever" .

I understand about being straight to the point. I have that problem in verbal communications. Typing adds enough delay for me to control it better on the internet.

Sorry for mis-interpreting your intentions. I am however, still impressed with how TWL handled your objections...mmm Maybe I should have substituted "objections" for "hostility". mea culpa.

Bomber



No harm, no foul
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 9:35:37 PM EDT
Hey, evolution designed us to interact face to face with visual cues such as the other person grasping us around the neck when we annoy him.

This internet medium has not benefitted from 10K years of acculturation.

We must grow into it...so stop being hostile, rude and inflamatory.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 6:34:16 AM EDT
Damn, I really like the looks of those Armalite M15 middies......just what I need....another AR!!!!

thanks alot, you bastards!!!!!
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 7:01:14 AM EDT
Desertmoon, what are you saying, dude? You mean you're not getting a brand new RobArms XCR?

John
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 7:39:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:57:17 AM EDT
Tag for future reference.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 9:13:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 9:16:13 AM EDT by wyv3rn]
More barrels get bent during jumps and boynett training than anything else. Securing further out on a non-solid part of the FS is probably not a good thing.

That said, the usefulness of a bayonett on a carbine is questionable anyway. It's not that much further out than you can reach and you have better control of it when it is in your hand. Chances are the other guy is going to have a longer rifle than you anyway, so if it comes to bayonetts you are already at a major disadvantage. Also, why do you want to add 5" of length for .00001% of situations to what is supposed to be a compact weapon in which the shorter length will benefit you in many more circumstances and take the chance on bending your barrel?

If it is a looks thing, I am in your boat though. They do look kickass for when you are taking pics! In that case the mount will be sufficient!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:31:54 AM EDT
cgv69 is heading in the right direction with his thoughts as far as I am concerned. I don't see anyone adopting this new method of turning a carbine barrel into a midlength. Who will this be marketed towards? Someone who can't afford to buy a new midlength barrel assembly but has a few bucks and time to replace their gas tube and front sight base along with DRILLIING a new hole in their carbine barrel?

I don't see people thinking they need to jump on a midlength bandwagon so badly that they feel the need to drill into their barrel.

When I decided to go midlength, I decided to get all the goodies and ordered it with an upper from ADCO. I got the ramps, SS, 1:7 twist, yada yada yada. I just sold my carbine barreled uppers and bought one good midlength upper.

I'm just not seeing enough interest in midlengths to cause people to want to drill barrels and gas ports. there are plenty of midlength barrels out there and the number is growing.

i wish you luck but this is so non-standard it's not gonna fly too far. Imagine someone buying a used "midlength" off of the EE and then removing the FSB to find out the barrel has TWO gas ports. YIKES!!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:47:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 10:54:09 AM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:52:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cgv69:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
Nice guns....is that an A2 buttstock or A1?



Not to talk for Chris but I happen to know that is a CavArms C1 (A1 length) stock.



Prolly a good thing you did since I just saw this thread. Yes it is an A1.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:47:26 AM EDT
I picked up a used, standard AR carbine (bushy upper/eagle arms lower) from a board member here several months ago. I have had no trouble with it in the 400ish rounds I put down the pipe, so, because I can't leave well enough alone, I'm converting it to a midlength. I'm accomplishing the task by removing the old FSB and gas tube and installing a YHM flip-up FSB, part #9394, and a mid-length gas tube/handguards. The beauty of the 9394 is that because of the way it bolts to the barrel, the slight reduction in diameter ahead of the true FSB location doesn't matter--the 9394 snuggles up to the barrel tightly. I still have to drill the gas port, and I'll use the shaved front ring of my old FSB to cover the old gas port (I'll use a dremel to remove all from the FSB but literally a ring that will encircle the bbl and cover the old gas port, and I'll pin it in place with one of the taper pins I removed).

I did run into one hitch. I learned, after dremeling (of course), that midlength handguards are designed for a triangular handguard cap, not a round one. At worst I've ruined only $15 worth of handguards, but when I get a triangular cap I think the dremeled handguards will still work.

Only remaining question I have is what size to drill the mid-length gas port. I read somewhere that a port size of .080 inches ought to do the trick. I figure it ought to be slightly smaller than a rifle port and slightly larger than a carbine port. I need to do some searching to find out what those sizes are and compare to the .080 measurement I have.

Comments, questions? I'm I nuts?

twl, I'm quite curious to see your mid-length kit.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:59:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:01:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twl:
Even though the difference in gas port location is only 2 inches, which may seem like a very small difference, is enough to cause the port pressure to be reduced to almost half of the carbine port pressure. It is significant.



twl, do you have exact figures for the port pressure of the mid length gas system? I read an Armalite technical document www.armalite.com/library/techNotes/tnote48.htm that mentions how the M16 gas sytem produces 13,000 psi of gas port pressure while the M4 produces double the amount (26,000 PSI).
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:10:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 2:13:53 PM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:14:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twl:
I don't have the figures here in front of me, but I think that Mack has them over at MGI.

I'll try to get the port pressure data for you if I can.

Thanks



Thanks man!
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:21:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 9:22:07 PM EDT by Jaltered]
Newbie question concerning the thread topic:

Is a 16" midlength considered a carbine, or is a 16" midlength considered a rifle? (Or is it just a middy?) hinking.gif
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:40:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jaltered:
Newbie question concerning the thread topic:

Is a 16" midlength considered a carbine, or is a 16" midlength considered a rifle? (Or is it just a middy?)



Its Both!!!!

(I am anxiously awaiting the completion of my middy)
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top